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  #21  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 3:51 PM
fawd fawd is offline
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With the misinformation & guesswork going on here, figured it would be helpful to share an update on the Barrister condominium development a.k.a Jefferson Place.


1) They are under contract to purchase the Barrister building and adjacent property from the City of Phoenix. 100% under contract - but not 100% finalized to my knowledge.
2) They have begun the lengthy pre-construction process of developing the building.
3) Between design, engineering, financing, legal, presales, and further City approvals, they are still 9-12 months from the 'official' start of construction.
4) If all of the above occurs without a hitch, we might see construction begin in the 7-8 month timeframe. Sounds like that's a big if, however.


To emphasize: No, Jefferson Place hasn't begun construction. No, the sky isn't falling. No, the GPLET debacle didn't sideline this project.

And yes, the Downtown Phoenix market can still support more residential developments.
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  #22  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 4:25 PM
ASU Diablo ASU Diablo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fawd View Post
With the misinformation & guesswork going on here, figured it would be helpful to share an update on the Barrister condominium development a.k.a Jefferson Place.


1) They are under contract to purchase the Barrister building and adjacent property from the City of Phoenix. 100% under contract - but not 100% finalized to my knowledge.
2) They have begun the lengthy pre-construction process of developing the building.
3) Between design, engineering, financing, legal, presales, and further City approvals, they are still 9-12 months from the 'official' start of construction.
4) If all of the above occurs without a hitch, we might see construction begin in the 7-8 month timeframe. Sounds like that's a big if, however.


To emphasize: No, Jefferson Place hasn't begun construction. No, the sky isn't falling. No, the GPLET debacle didn't sideline this project.

And yes, the Downtown Phoenix market can still support more residential developments.
Great news and excellent update!
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  #23  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 5:49 PM
nickw252 nickw252 is offline
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Thanks for the well-informed information.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2017, 3:45 PM
azliam azliam is offline
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Found this video from May on history and renovation of Barrister:

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/54321...#sp=show-clips
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  #25  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2017, 2:04 AM
fawd fawd is offline
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Hello All -

Providing an update on the Barrister/Jefferson Place development as there seems to be some confusion/speculation...



The project has been on hold for several months due to a challenge from the Urban Phoenix Project. The UPP is trying to block the acquisition of the alley that bisects the property. There is a City Council hearing to, hopefully, resolve the issue on October 18th.

From what I understand, without the alley, the Barrister high-rise condo plan is not financially viable and dead in the water.



I am NOT a fan of the Urban Phoenix Project. The group does much more harm than good. They were successful in stopping a Hines project last year - so the Barrister folks are taking this seriously.

Fingers crossed... we are SO CLOSE to having an INCREDIBLY dense residental core in DT Phx!!!!
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  #26  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2017, 5:16 AM
muertecaza muertecaza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fawd View Post
Hello All -

Providing an update on the Barrister/Jefferson Place development as there seems to be some confusion/speculation...



The project has been on hold for several months due to a challenge from the Urban Phoenix Project. The UPP is trying to block the acquisition of the alley that bisects the property. There is a City Council hearing to, hopefully, resolve the issue on October 18th.

From what I understand, without the alley, the Barrister high-rise condo plan is not financially viable and dead in the water.



I am NOT a fan of the Urban Phoenix Project. The group does much more harm than good. They were successful in stopping a Hines project last year - so the Barrister folks are taking this seriously.

Fingers crossed... we are SO CLOSE to having an INCREDIBLY dense residental core in DT Phx!!!!
I could be missing something but I really don't understand the willingness to delay and derail projects like this over alleys. Seems like cutting if you're nose to spite your face. I understand the position that preserving the alley will result in better urban design. But surely the project without the alley is better for the urban fabric than a parking lot.
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  #27  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2017, 5:22 AM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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What was the hines project?
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  #28  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2017, 5:28 AM
fawd fawd is offline
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Originally Posted by muertecaza View Post
I could be missing something but I really don't understand the willingness to delay and derail projects like this over alleys. Seems like cutting if you're nose to spite your face. I understand the position that preserving the alley will result in better urban design. But surely the project without the alley is better for the urban fabric than a parking lot.
Could not agree more and you're not missing anything. Sean Sweat and Jeff Sherman (individuals in charge of UPP) have their organization completely backwards. Here is the Urban Phoenix Project's official position on the subject:



We have just appealed the abandonment of the alley behind the Barrister Building. (Southeast corner of Central & Jefferson.)

The abandonment would be a material change from the project that received approval by the City's RFP process, and the decision to approve the abandonment neglected to consider the Council-approved criteria for abandonments in downtown.

Alleys are important for our downtown, giving us ways to keep utilitarian functions off the street, reducing driveways which are dangerous to people on foot and bikes, and forcing better urban design through smaller building footprints. Our alleys must be preserved.



Talk about a load of nonsense!!! What is unfortunate is this delay has NOTHING to do with GPLET. Nothing to do with market enthusiasm. Nothing to do with the developer pulling back. Truly unfortunate.

I hope (and anticipate) the City Council will brush off this appeal and allow the Barrister developers to press onwards.. we should know by the end of next week.
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  #29  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2017, 5:32 AM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fawd View Post
Could not agree more and you're not missing anything. Sean Sweat and Jeff Sherman (individuals in charge of UPP) are completely backwards. Here is the Urban Phoenix Project's official position on the subject:



We have just appealed the abandonment of the alley behind the Barrister Building. (Southeast corner of Central & Jefferson.)

The abandonment would be a material change from the project that received approval by the City's RFP process, and the decision to approve the abandonment neglected to consider the Council-approved criteria for abandonments in downtown.

Alleys are important for our downtown, giving us ways to keep utilitarian functions off the street, reducing driveways which are dangerous to people on foot and bikes, and forcing better urban design through smaller building footprints. Our alleys must be preserved.



Talk about a load of non-sense!!! What is unfortunate is this delay has NOTHING to do with GPLET. Nothing to do with market enthusiasm. Nothing to do with the developer pulling back. Truly unfortunate.

I hope (and anticipate) the City Council will brush off this appeal and allow the Barrister developers to press onwards.. we should know by the end of next week.

Wow that is incredibly dumb, if I remember correctly the site plane literally preserves 80% f the ally it just no longer connects to Washington.

Edit: Yep, alley still exists http://kjzz.org/sites/default/files/...n%206.1.16.pdf
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  #30  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2017, 1:51 PM
muertecaza muertecaza is offline
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
What was the hines project?
11 story, 400 apartment project that would have taken up the whole parking lot on NE corner of Filmore and Central.
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  #31  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2017, 6:22 PM
fawd fawd is offline
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Originally Posted by muertecaza View Post
11 story, 400 apartment project that would have taken up the whole parking lot on NE corner of Filmore and Central.
That's the one. If memory serves, it was going to be called The Canyon... but could be wrong or referencing a different development.
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  #32  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2017, 6:32 PM
RonnieFoos RonnieFoos is offline
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What a bunch of B.S.! All that is there now is a vacant building, a parking lot that is never more than a 1/4 full and homeless vagrants that use the back of Barrister as their personal toilet. I can't tell you how much gross stuff I have seen shortcutting through the Barrister parking lot. So they want to kill this redevelopment over an alley (which as Obadno stated, appears to still be there).

As long as it has taken to develop this property...all the failed proposals...and someone FINALLY comes along with nearly a concrete plan to build a really good development and these jerks pull a Matt. Do they not realize, by killing this development, it could be another 5 years for another developer to propose something else??

I really shake my head at the amount of opposition that occurs in this city.
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  #33  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 3:30 AM
fawd fawd is offline
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Quoting UPP.....

Unfortunately the project was significantly re-designed after the RFP was awarded by the City. The original design, which we supported, maintained the alley and fully developed the southern parcel. The new design moves all trash and vehicle access directly off of Madison. This makes Madison a a complete dead side of the project with multiple curb cuts. The only development now left South of the Alley is 4-5 Town-homes facing Central Ave.
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  #34  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 2:08 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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As is often the case, the Downtown Devil is providing the best coverage: https://downtowndevil.com/2017/10/13...rrister-alley/

I haven't followed this case closely, but base on what I've read so far, I lean towards UPP's position. Phoenix has said yes to far too many mediocre developments (Collier Center, Arizona Center, and CityScape are a few examples) because we thought that they were better than vacant lots or empty buildings. We're no longer in a position of such desperation There's enough interest in Downtown that we can wait for someone to get it right.

Maybe it really is true that the developer can't make this work without the alley abandonment, but it's concerning that this detail was revealed after the RFP was awarded, making this seem like a possible bait-and-switch. If my schedule permits, I might attend Wednesday's hearing to learn more. I encourage others to do the same, regardless of how they feel about this case.
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  #35  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 2:43 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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Careful with the thinking that the first thing available is the best, that's how people end up with Kias.
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  #36  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 3:03 PM
nickw252 nickw252 is offline
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I gotta say that I’m at least partially onboard with the UPP position. I know some advocacy groups take their positions too far but I think this is a reasonable position. Not to say that I couldn’t be swayed, however.
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  #37  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 3:16 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fawd View Post
Quoting UPP.....

Unfortunately the project was significantly re-designed after the RFP was awarded by the City. The original design, which we supported, maintained the alley and fully developed the southern parcel. The new design moves all trash and vehicle access directly off of Madison. This makes Madison a a complete dead side of the project with multiple curb cuts. The only development now left South of the Alley is 4-5 Town-homes facing Central Ave.
Based on the document on the first page that was generally always the plan though?

And I really don't understand the ally is in the site plan unless that has all be scrapped and redone?
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  #38  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 11:55 PM
Edifice Edifice is offline
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
Careful with the thinking that the first thing available is the best, that's how people end up with Kias.
But you didn't mean to offend anyone driving a Kia, did you Smallus Weinus?
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  #39  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2017, 12:56 AM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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Are you offended? I'm sorry. I was just making the comparison to illustrate my point, sometimes if you wait you end up with something better i.e. not a Kia.
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  #40  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2017, 10:09 PM
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Kia makes a damn good car. Just saying. You can't really call anything coming out of South Korea junk in autos. Maybe Detroit (still) or Europe...but not South Korea.
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