The convenience question

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Doug

Restrictive labor laws and barriers to competition definitely harm the consumer. One of the things I miss most about living in the US was the ability to chose a product or service almost entirely based on my preference, mostly unimpeded by government choices on who could function as a provider where and when. In the winter when I didn't cycle, for example, I would often hit Home Depot on the way to work at 5 AM as it was on the way and I couldn't waste scarce personal time on the mundane.

What prevents Home Depot from opening at 5 in Canada?

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by acottawa

What prevents Home Depot from opening at 5 in Canada?

Nothing, and it looks like they don't open at 5am in the USA anyway, but 6am, same as in Toronto.

[drew]

Originally Posted by acottawa

What prevents Home Depot from opening at 5 in Canada?

Probably a lack of customers

[someone123]

Originally Posted by casper

In fairness, after Skytrain shutdown in Vancouver there is the Night Bus service that runs until it starts up again in the mornning

Yes, so you can take the 1.5-2 hour trip out to the suburbs, assuming the endpoints of your trip are right along one of the new night bus routes. This would have been considered okay a few years ago but Vancouver also doesn't have Uber, Lyft, or any ridesharing service, so these days the transportation situation at night is worse than pretty much any other major North American city.

Another problem in Vancouver is housing is expensive so even a lot of people who don't have a car can't afford to live along transit corridors or in convenient neighbourhoods.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by esquire

1 am is actually not that bad... many Asian megacities end subway service around midnight which I find koo-koo bananas considering how they are 24 hours metropolises in many ways. I'm not a night owl but I don't recall any North American subways/LRTs going past 1 am except NYC. I suspect there are good reasons for that... the number of incidents per 1000 riders must skyrocket once you get past midnight.

Yep, was in Osaka this weekend, metro of 22 million people, even on Friday and Saturday night all last trains are at midnight. No real bus service after last train either. All taxis.

Even worse where I live where last train for some stations is around 10:45...

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by someone123

Yes, so you can take the 1.5-2 hour trip out to the suburbs, assuming the endpoints of your trip are right along one of the new night bus routes. This would have been considered okay a few years ago but Vancouver also doesn't have Uber, Lyft, or any ridesharing service, so these days the transportation situation at night is worse than pretty much any other major North American city.

Another problem in Vancouver is housing is expensive so even a lot of people who don't have a car can't afford to live along transit corridors or in convenient neighbourhoods.

The night buses generally run along the same routes as the Skytrain lines, so I fail to see how the end point of one’s trip is any more of an issue via the bus vs. the Skytrain.

Lived in South Van for years and never had any real trouble getting back late night. Even going to my cousins place in Horseshoe Bay late any night was never too much trouble.

You always seem to have somewhat hyperbolic negative slant on Vancouver.

Really really doubt Vancouver’s night transportation is worse than pretty much anywhere in North America... In fact my personal experiences have been quite the opposite outside of a few exceptions.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

Yes, Chinese metros do close too early. They've started running trains until 12:30am or so on Friday/Saturday nights on some lines here in Shanghai, but that's still not very good. Most lines open at around 5:30/6am in the morning.

But with plentiful taxis, Didi, and if nothing else dockless bikes, being out past 11pm is no longer as bad as it used to be.

Honestly, I find transportation worse than ever after midnight in SH.

Apparently, there are less taxis now than back in 2008 due to a lack of willing drivers (makes sense as Shanghai taxis are still way too cheap. The drivers make peanuts). The drivers we do have are really bad late night. You've got about a 30% chance the guy isn't going to try to over-charge you 5 fold or say that his meter isn't working.

Didi used to be good*, but because of the lack of taxi drivers, you can be waiting up to, and past an hour for a Didi on weekends. Sometimes even longer.

And the treasured Mobike? What was once my most reliable mode of transportation late night has now become so scarce in the early morning hours, you absolutely can't rely on them. Using my GPS, I've found that all of these bikes are brought in to locked compounds by the last user to ensure they will have use of one the next morning. I've seen so many people walking these bikes in to their apartment complex. There used to be an abundance of Mobikes that would remedy this sort of behavior, but the city has cleared over 50% of the stock from the streets.

I'm with you on the Shanghai metro needing later hours, especially on weekends (even if it's just a few main lines). The city is far too large and spread out for people to have to deal with shady taxi drivers, an unreliable Didi, and a lack of Mobikes.


*Remember when Uber was a thing? Before Didi bought them, and made things worse? Those were good times.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

The night buses generally run along the same routes as the Skytrain lines, so I fail to see how the end point of one’s trip is any more of an issue via the bus vs. the Skytrain.

The night buses are slower and less frequent than the train and the local feeder buses don't run, so if you're a 40 minute walk away from the N route you're hoofing it and you're probably looking at a 2-3 hour trip.

Really really doubt Vancouver’s night transportation is worse than pretty much anywhere in North America... In fact my personal experiences have been quite the opposite outside of a few exceptions.

It's worse than all the cities that have ride sharing, which works particularly great at night when there's less traffic. The transit might be better but the transportation options overall are worse.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by someone123

The night buses are slower and less frequent than the train and the local feeder buses don't run, so if you're a 40 minute walk away from the N route you're hoofing it and you're probably looking at a 2-3 hour trip.

It's worse than all the cities that have ride sharing, which works particularly great at night when there's less traffic. The transit might be better but the transportation options overall are worse.

Okay, thought you meant the actual transit system.

Will agree that some ridesharing would be a smart and needed move.

[giallo]

Vancouver/BCs lack of Uber or Lyft is pretty bad. The province needs to get on that.

[SpongeG]

I live near Lougheed TC. I've used the late bus a few times. In my experiences the trip isn't that slow, but usually by the time the bus gets to LTC I am the only person left on the bus, a lot of people got on along broadway and got off further along Broadway.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by drew

Probably a lack of customers

Didn't Home Depot try 24 hour stores in some places at one point?

[Acajack]

Sleepy Ottawa runs its main crosstown Transitway bus routes 24 hours. Other routes pack it up somewhat earlier.

I don't necessarily think this is bad though. If you're without a car late at night, you can take transit for most of the distance and even if you have to a cab for the last portion of your trip it's still way less expensive. I do that sometimes even here in Gatineau.

Though the new Confederation Line will stop running around 11 pm or midnight I think...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

Tourist Europe and "regular" Europe struck me as two different things to some extent, though.

As visitors, we are familiar with the charming and historic city centres of Europe where it is quite often smaller shops with short hours. The first European country I set foot in as an adult was Germany and I was shocked by how early everything closed. But once you venture out to the suburbs, it starts to resemble North America a bit more with hypermarkets, big malls, and the like. They stay open late, they have free parking, and they accept every card known to man.

For better or for worse, this sort of North American convenience is reality for a good many, if not most Europeans.

Yes, this is a good point, but... in my experience at lot of these hypermarkets still have less convenient hours than in most of North America. Often they may close at 5 pm on Saturdays and noon on Sunday. Stuff like that.

[Acajack]

Quebec in my opinion is only semi-convenient. For example, you can't really buy a pair of shoes or a dress shirt or a vacuum cleaner or a filter for your furnace after 5 or 6 pm anywhere in the province AFAIK. Shops and malls are almost all closed on Saturday evenings. And Sunday evenings too. Which is different even from Ontario (think Ottawa) where malls, Walmarts, Home Depots, etc. tend to be open every night of the week.

All-night pharmacies are also rare in Quebec. I believe there are maybe two on the entire island of Montreal for 2 million people. Whereas Ottawa suburbs like Orleans, Kanata and Barrhaven each have multiple all night pharmacies. Gatineau with 275 000 people has zero all night pharmacies.

Quebec's cities do OK when it comes to late night eateries though.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

A lot of these things come down to labour legislation and the like; others come down to expectations. In general, Europeans are more used to the idea that certain times of the day are for certain things, which is probably down to less individualist societies. .

I think there is something like this at work in Quebec too. I've always been surprised at the dead time on Saturday evening on Ste-Catherine in Montreal. Between when the shops close and the nightlife picks up.

Nobody in Quebec every complains that you can't go to the mall on Saturday night. Or it seems, would think of spending their Saturday night shopping.

Saturday night is for going out or entertaining friends.

Same goes for Sunday night - the idea of going shopping just seems bizarre to me.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think there is something like this at work in Quebec too. I've always been surprised at the dead time on Saturday evening on Ste-Catherine in Montreal. Between when the shops close and the nightlife picks up.

Nobody in Quebec every complains that you can't go to the mall on Saturday night. Or it seems, would think of spending their Saturday night shopping.

Saturday night is for going out or entertaining friends.

Same goes for Sunday night - the idea of going shopping just seems bizarre to me.

We're 12-5 for most businesses on Sundays, though the usual suspects such as Walmart do 7-10. The businesses open for 24 hours, 7 days a week, are generally restaurants or gas stations.

Here's a typical example of how it works here late night...

Celtic Hearth is open 24/7. Muhammed Ali's next door is open 11 p.m.-4 a.m. on Thursdays, busy bar nights, etc.

The surrounding businesses are all closed.

[kool maudit]

Tourist Europe vs. regular Europe isn't how I'd put it, really. It's more like the 19th-century city environment is an analogue to North America's 'downtown plus inner neighbourhood' areas, with the suburbs being... the suburbs.

If we take inner Copenhagen's Old Town/Østerbro/Nørrebro/Vesterbro/Frederiksberg core and look at how its used, it's pretty analagous to, say, Montreal between Papineau, Decarie, the river, and Cote-Sainte-Catherine/the CPR tracks.

In Copenhagen, that inner area is a 19th century European capital whereas in Montreal its an American-style downtown surrounded by walkup districts. But in terms of how its used, and its role in the metro area, it's very similar.

I have just moved back into the city and I live in, let's say it's Monkland Village. It's Wilson and Somerled. I think my relationship with 'Copenhagen' is exactly the same as my relationship with inner Montreal would be there; the 19th century blocks and the Old Town and palaces stand in for the skyscraper downtown and its townhouse fringes, but its just a visual swap.


I must say, Doug, I really don't enjoy dining in Los Angeles any more than I do in Geneva, although I am sure that you have correctly defined the differences.

There is an interplay between individual temperament and societal structure at work here.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Quebec in my opinion is only semi-convenient. For example, you can't really buy a pair of shoes or a dress shirt or a vacuum cleaner or a filter for your furnace after 5 or 6 pm anywhere in the province AFAIK. Shops and malls are almost all closed on Saturday evenings. And Sunday evenings too. Which is different even from Ontario (think Ottawa) where malls, Walmarts, Home Depots, etc. tend to be open every night of the week.

I wonder if my sense of ease regarding relocating to Europe was somehow boosted by the fact that I lived in Quebec for the 16 years prior to leaving. It was definitely boosted by the fact that I lived in a second language; my anglo relatives cannot easily imagine living in a non-English-speaking society. They always ask about it.

(one funny thing here is that now everyone thinks I am 'good with languages'. I am terrible with languages, actually. I am a slow learner and find it difficult. Everyone I know, save for the Brits and Americans, is way better than I am. But you do it because you have to and then your relatives in Toronto tell you that you have a special skill!)

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Sleepy Ottawa runs its main crosstown Transitway bus routes 24 hours. Other routes pack it up somewhat earlier.

I don't necessarily think this is bad though. If you're without a car late at night, you can take transit for most of the distance and even if you have to a cab for the last portion of your trip it's still way less expensive. I do that sometimes even here in Gatineau.

Though the new Confederation Line will stop running around 11 pm or midnight I think...

Confederation Line will end at 1am Monday-Thursday, 2am Friday & Saturday, and 11pm on Sunday. There will be overnight replacement buses.