Macy's closing 4 Downtown stores across US

[sbarn]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

American has just lost its vision and our stores need to get back to thinking big again.

I think you need to get out more.

[mhays]

Mike doesn't learn from these discussions. He just waits to make the same point again.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by fflint

Oh, I don't disagree--there are too many malls, too many brick-and-mortar stores. I'm actually surprised San Francisco's downtown shopping mecca continues to grow, given how much commerce is now conducted online.

Yes, Downtown SF is booming in ultra high end boutiques opening up.

There are approximately 500 stores in Downtown and here many of the high end ones:

Luxury/Upscale shopping Downtown San Francisco:

Union Square:
Agent Provocateur
Alexander McQueen
AllSaints
Alton Lane
Anne Fontaine
Apple------------------(New Flagship Store Opening 2016)
Arthur Berens
Bang & Olufsen
Barcelino
Barcelino per Donna
Barney's New York
Barney's New York Men's Store---------------(Opening Spring/Summer 2016)
Bonobos
Bottega Veneta
Brunello Cucinelli
Bulgari
Burberry
Cartier
Chanel
CH Carolina Herrera
Christian Dior------------------------(Opening 2016 (185 Post St.))
Christian Louboutin
Coach
Cole Haan
Diesel
Dior Homme
Diptyque
Dolce & Gabbana
Emporio Armani
Faconnable
Giorgio Armani
Goyard
Graff Diamonds
Gucci
Gump's
Harry Winston--------------------(Opening Soon (214 Stockton St.))
Hermes
Hublot
Jins
Jimmy Choo
John Varvatos
Kate Spade New York
Kiton
La Perla
Lacoste
Leica
Longchamp
Loro Piana
Louis Vuitton
Maison Margiela
Marlowe
Marni
MaxMara
Moncler--------------------(Coming Soon (212 Stockton St.))
Montblanc
Neiman Marcus
Oliver Peoples
Paul Smith
Prada
Saint Laurent Paris
Saks Fifth Avenue Men's Store
Saks Fifth Avenue Women's Store
Salvatore Ferragamo
Scoop NYC
Scotch and Soda
Sugarfina
Suitsupply------------------(Opening January 2016 (175 Maiden Ln.))
Swarovski
Ted Baker London
Theory
Thomas Pink
Tiffany & Co.
Tory Burch
Tourbillon
TSE
Tumi
Vera Wang
Valentino
Vilebrequin
Vince
Wilkes Bashford
Wolford

------Proposed-------
-(Rumored) Acne Studios
-(Rumored) Akris
-(Rumored) Bluemercury
-(Rumored) Giuseppe Zanotti
-(Rumored) JamesPerse
-Officine Panerai
-(Rumored) Opening Ceremony
-(Rumored) Tom Ford

Westfield San Francisco Centre:
Bloomingdale's
Burberry Brit
Coach
Coach Men's Store
Hugo Boss
Karen Millen
Kate Spade New York
Michael Kors Men's Store
Michael Kors Women's Store
Nordstrom
Red Valentino
Rolex
Tiffany & Co.
Tory Burch
Tourneau
Tumi

Jackson Square:
A.P.C.-------------------(Opening Soon 2016)
Isabel Marant
Shinola------------------(Opening Soon 2016)

[Rational Plan3]

The UK has different characteristics. Some related to planning and others due to the structure of UK retail.

UK had strict planning controls on retail construction in the postwar era. A clear shopping hierarchy was established. Every retail centre was established from local centres, Suburban centres, Main centres, Regional and Metropolitan centres established in local and regional plans. Any proposals were expected to comply with a towns designated status and was designed to prevent towns trying to lure shoppers to another town. While this is weakened today, such concerns are still taken into consideration today and neighbouring authorities will object to any plans that they feel will undermine their centres. If you peruse any UK planning application you will see a retail impact assessment, which will measure how much retail expenditure there is any area and how much is leaking away to other centres. As wealth increases and population grows local plans will outline how much extra comparison retail and area will require over the next 10 to 20 years. So an area with a shortfall of 150,000 sq ft retail might get a scheme for a bit over that built but anyone proposing a big 500,000 sq ft scheme will be shot down unless it involves the replacement of existing stock.

Anyway back to history. Most shopping malls in the UK were built in town and city centres, it was only during the 1980's were planning restrictions loosened and the big out of town malls built. But this being Britain those were fought all the way and only the biggest metropolitan areas gained one. The biggest growth was in big box retail and still is today. But even here many schemes have restrictions on use and limit them to big and bulky goods.

These big new centres had a variable effect and most big downtowns were unaffected. It was the neighbouring suburban centres that were decimated, The worst example being Dudley in the West Midlands.

The UK shopping market is different to the US, in that Department stores were much less important compared to the UK, fashion retail was much more dominated by smaller fashion store chains. If you look at floorplans of US Malls to UK ones, you'll note that multiple department stores (3 or 4) are relatively common, in even quite small shopping centres while 1 or 2 department stores would be more normal in the UK. Also UK Malls have a larger percentage of chain fashion stores.

Over the years the main chains of departments have shrunk through mergers and bankruptcies (goodbye Owen & Owen, Allders, Bentals, Beatties and CO OP stores).

Today we have at the top the big London exclusive stores, Harrods, Selfridges and Harvey Nichols. Selfridges did start to expand to Manchester and Birmingham but the new Canadian owners stopped expansion, as only the London stores is the one pumping out gold, the Others are doing fine but the new owners did not want to take one more risk by moving into smaller Metropolitan centres (rumoured to be looking at 8 stores at one point). Harvey Nicols has been transformed into a potential global luxury mini department stores by their Hong Kong Owners and have spread to 8 UK and Ireland cities plus 8 more international sites.

The Big Chains are only 4 important department store chains in the UK.

John Lewis is the developers favourite anchor. They have 31 main line department stores and their ideal format is at about 250,000 sq ft and attached parking. It is seen as the Ultimate Upper Middle Class store. It is seen as Good value (not the same as cheap) and is very strong in Homewares, fabrics, carpets, electricals, furniture and fashion (if more the middle aged). It still has departments that most other chains have long dropped.

It is run as a Co-operative with profit share. The chain is underpinned by it's luxury supermarket chain Waitrose (think a smaller Whole Foods but less hipster more monied) which has grown from the London and the Home counties favourite store for the stockbroker belt into a genuine national chain, it is still expanding Northwards though.

For smaller markets it has experimented with out of town homeware stores and has now decided to launch a smaller department store format for wealthy smaller cities (Hello York and Exeter).

If you are developer if you can get John Lewis to sign up then all the other upmarket stores will beat a path to you and you will raise finance easily. The problem is Jogn Lewis is not going to open everywhere and is not going undercut it's existing stores.

This bring us to House of Fraser and it's 60 stores, which is formed from the smooshed together properties of dozens of independents and small chains, the latest of which was Beatties in the Midlands. Until a few years ago they still traded under their old names (Army & Navy, Dickens and Jones etc) but a rebranding has changed that to all House of Fraser. The stores are usually much smaller at around 100,000 sq ft, but they have some huge stores in their as well. The chain is more fashion focussed than John Lewis.

3rd we have Debenhams which is the most mainstream with it's 178 locations and trades from a wide range of formats and markets. It is the most aggressive in expanding into smaller town centres and has begun to dip it's toe into free standing big box formats where it can secure planning permission (difficult, as all towns are paranoid about losing their anchor stores). The chain is known for it Designers at Debenhams range where small British Designers have diffusion ranges (such as Bed De Lisli, John Rocha, Julien McDonald and Betty Jackson) It helped save the chain from just being a giant collection of concessions. Debenhams has expanded heavily into international markets.

The biggest of All is Marks and Spencer it has 800 stores in the UK trading from neighbourhood mine department stores to full line stores. Marks is known for it's Food Hall (good quality and you pay for it) and is a stalwart in the clothing sector with over 11% market share of the entire clothing sector. Strong in Office Wear, Undergarments, Childrens Wear, Homewares and Ordinary clothing, It's always been at the fore front of fabric technology from it's seamless mens underpants to silver nano particle socks and machine washable suits. The problem it has it is seen as being as somewhere your mum or grandparents shop, where they fondle the comfy sole footglove brand shoes in their extra wide fittings. It keeps trying to be more fashionable but it never seems to stick.

Marks has a very large international presence.

Racing up on the inside track is Primark a value fast fashion deep discounter which is now moving up to 100,000 sq foot stores in big centres.

Primarks growth seems at the expense of BHS (British Home Stores) which back in the 80's was seen as Junior Marks & Spencer. It tried to cope with the changing market by going downmarket but looks like it's going to shrink drastically.

In the last decade or so major changes to the UK retail scene are apparent. Despite strong planning controls the old retail hierarchy is changing. There are several causes. Retailers have moved from having lots of little stores in every possible location and are moving to large units in more limited number of centres. These days the ideal fashion store is 15,000 to 50,000 sq foot. These large stores can offer a large range of styles and customers are willing to travel further to these stores. This means that in the past a chain that used to need 200 plus stores to cover 80% of the UK market only needs 50 or so larger more efficient stores to do the same thing. The result is that the largest centres in the UK are growing with developers clamouring for larger malls in these city centres, meanwhile smaller suburban town centres are collapsing and the small Malls in these places have fallen off a cliff. At the same time the UK has one of the most developed online sectors in the World with over 15% of retailing now online, compared to just over 2% in Italy.

All the big chains have adopted a clicks and bricks strategy and many chains need an out of town presence (if even quite small) to help easy collection by car.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

American store are also just not innovative anymore. You really see this when you go to Europe and see how much better their retail stores are.
Even if you look at Macy's in Manhattan. Until recently, their food hall was basically a McDonalds and Starbucks. Compared to the outstanding food options you get in European department stores.

American has just lost its vision and our stores need to get back to thinking big again.

It's not like our department stores have done any better. Ogilvy's has always been fabulous and only recently has Hudson's Bay upped their game. The rest either went bankrupt (Eatons, Simpsons, Woodwards, Les Ailes de la Mode) or might end up there (Simons). Holt Renfrew look like they will be ok due to the ridiculously deep pockets of the Westons (own Sefridges, Brown Thomas, de Bijenkorf, Loblaws, Shopper's Drug Mart). Holts isn't exactly innovative though.

[MplsTodd]

Originally Posted by Rational Plan3

The UK has different characteristics. Some related to planning and others due to the structure of UK retail.


In the last decade or so major changes to the UK retail scene are apparent. Despite strong planning controls the old retail hierarchy is changing. There are several causes. Retailers have moved from having lots of little stores in every possible location and are moving to large units in more limited number of centres. These days the ideal fashion store is 15,000 to 50,000 sq foot. These large stores can offer a large range of styles and customers are willing to travel further to these stores. This means that in the past a chain that used to need 200 plus stores to cover 80% of the UK market only needs 50 or so larger more efficient stores to do the same thing. The result is that the largest centres in the UK are growing with developers clamouring for larger malls in these city centres, meanwhile smaller suburban town centres are collapsing and the small Malls in these places have fallen off a cliff. At the same time the UK has one of the most developed online sectors in the World with over 15% of retailing now online, compared to just over 2% in Italy.

All the big chains have adopted a clicks and bricks strategy and many chains need an out of town presence (if even quite small) to help easy collection by car.

Great summary--Thanks for posting!

When I studied in London (back in the '80s), I was impressed with the number of department stores that seemed to be one-off locations, such as Barkers on Kensington High Street, Harrods, Peter Jones on Sloane Square, and Liberty on Regent Street. In the US, everyone has multiple stores due to the need for economies of scale.
I absolutely loved the vibrancy of the high streets in British cities and the sheer variety of little shops, but I also have to say that I like how much cheaper goods are in the US, due to the more competitive market.

[10023]

^ Peter Jones isn't really a one off, it's a John Lewis with a different name. Barkers has closed. The other two are still there, though Harrod's isn't what it once was.

I would add Liberty and Fenwick's as important London upper end department stores.

John Lewis is the place that everyone shops, from the average person to actual aristocrats.

Debenham's and House of Fraser are lower end, somewhere between Macy's and Target in the US. I don't think Primark is really a traditional department store, unless you're counting stores like Kohl's and JCPenney in the US.

[texcolo]

Dallas Department Stores:

Neiman-Marcus Flagship Store (still in business)


http://katherinerobertsonphotography...n21-720289.jpg

Titche-Goettinger store (now condos and University of North Texas)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...r_Building.jpg

[isaidso]

I'm not familiar with Neiman Marcus. Are they considered strong in their segment? Would they be like Nordstrom or Hudson's Bay?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I'm not familiar with Neiman Marcus. Are they considered strong in their segment? Would they be like Nordstrom or Hudson's Bay?

Neiman Marcus is an upscale department store. It's closest competitor would be Saks, and to a lesser extent, Barneys. The rough Canadian equivalent would be Holt Renfew.

Nordstrom is more upper mid-market, and closest competitor would be Bloomingdales.

Hudsons Bay would be closest to Macys or Lord & Taylor or Dillards in the U.S. context.

[isaidso]

Ok, thanks.

[Citylover94]

One correction I would make to that list is that Lord and Taylor is actually not a Macy's competitor it is on the level/in competition with Saks Fifth Ave based on what I have seen at the one I have been to and even if they all aren't at that level based on what they carry and their marketing they are at least on the level of a Bloomingdales. But i could be wrong that is just the impression I have gotten. But I have pretty much only shopped at the one in Boston.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Citylover94

One correction I would make to that list is that Lord and Taylor is actually not a Macy's competitor it is on the level/in competition with Saks Fifth Ave based on what I have seen at the one I have been to and even if they all aren't at that level based on what they carry and their marketing they are at least on the level of a Bloomingdales. But i could be wrong that is just the impression I have gotten. But I have pretty much only shopped at the one in Boston.

Yeah, Lord & Taylor is arguably somewhat more upscale than Macys/Dillards. You could classify it with Bloomingdales/Nordstrom. No way is it comparable to Saks/Neiman, though.

One issue with these stores, too, is that they differentiate based on location. The Herald Square Macys has giant Gucci, Louis Vuitton, and Burberry offerings. A random Macys obviously won't have upscale stuff. Lord & Taylor is also highly variable by location.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

that sears in SLC is a strip mall variety on the outskirts of downtown.

it doesn't count for the purposes of my list.







ok, i didn't know that. i'll remove it.






target uses a different retail model than "traditional downtown department stores", that's why i didn't include downtown targets for any city.

Hey. Don't hate on that Sears. I used to get my weed from a dude in that parking lot.

[liat91]

Poor Brick and Mortar. I have used Amazon, but I don't go on there
to order; underwear, shorts, trashcans, cologne and shoe laces as needed.

This sucks, although I do notice that many of the recent closures have been in soul sucking malls. Big losses however with the closing of the Macy's at suburban square in Ardmore, PA and downtown Spokane.

So if people want a shopping "experience", they need to focus on downtown stores (cities and suburbs). If they build a ground up town center, don't put it in the middle of a former corn field. Put it adjacent to and in supplement of our current downtowns. Department Store+ movie theatre + bookstore + various women's boutiques + good mix of restaurants + hair boutiques + toy store in a vibrant downtown location = success.



http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/11/inve...res/index.html

[dave8721]

Any way to get a list of which ones are closing? I wonder what the status of the Downtown Miami store is? Its been neglected for years as Macy's was going to open a few blocks away at Miami World Center but it looks like MWC is going in a different direction and is dropping its large anchor tenants, so what happens to Macy's?

[UrbanImpact]

Originally Posted by dave8721

Any way to get a list of which ones are closing? I wonder what the status of the Downtown Miami store is? Its been neglected for years as Macy's was going to open a few blocks away at Miami World Center but it looks like MWC is going in a different direction and is dropping its large anchor tenants, so what happens to Macy's?

The list is not out yet.

[fflint]

The five-story stand alone Macy's Men's Store in San Francisco is closing; it will be moved into the main store across the street, and then Macy's will sell off the Men's Store property--it is worth an unfathomable amount of money, right on a prime corner in the heart of the downtown shopping district.

[dave8721]

Another urban Macy's may be going bye bye. Macy's has put their South Beach building up for sale:

http://therealdeal.com/miami/2016/09...uld-fetch-80m/

Macy’s building near Lincoln Road quietly marketed for sale, could fetch $80M

[mhays]

Selling a building doesn't always mean closing the store. It's often a way to cash out that value, then you lease the building back.