How far will the Atlanta suburban sprawl spread?

[mhays]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

Buckhead is not a suburban town center, it is the Uptown area within the City of Atlanta.

I'm talking about urban form, not what line it's inside or outside. It's in an extremely low-density area.

I called Buckhead "urban" but that's a stretch. It's a dense version of a suburban node. In any case it's better than not-dense suburban.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by mhays

I'm talking about urban form, not what line it's inside or outside. It's in an extremely low-density area.

I called Buckhead "urban" but that's a stretch. It's a dense version of a suburban node. In any case it's better than not-dense suburban.

Of course it's an extremely low density area, that's usually the case for historic mansion/estate neighborhoods isn't it? The density in these neighborhoods will never change, and we really don't want it to. Some of these neighborhoods look like they are within a National Park, and are home to the areas elite. Increased density is not desired in these areas, and the residents will ensure it never happens.

The adjoining commercial districts have and are increasing their density dramatically, especially around the subway stations. That's why there are mansions just blocks from 50 story towers. Highrise living has been popular for several decades now in Buckhead as well.

It is not a suburban node however, and you would be laughed at here for calling it such.

People that have never been to Buckhead rarely, if ever understand it. There is no equivalent in most cities, and certainly not in Seattle.

[Crawford]

Buckhead is a very low density suburban center that happens to be within city limits. It has considerable highrise growth in certain nodes but is a classic version of a favored quarter edge city. Basically every major metropolitan center in the U.S. has a Buckhead.

Even Midtown Atlanta is kind of an urban lite, hybrid urban-suburban streetscape. If Midtown Atlanta were in NJ or somewhere with old-school urbanity it would be considered a suburban edge city.

For whatever reason, even though Atlanta wasn't that small pre WW2, there just isn't much prewar fabric outside of downtown proper.

[austlar1]

Buckhead back in the 1940s and 50s was definitely suburban. It was not annexed by the city of Atlanta until 1952, but well off people had been building large homes there since the late 1920s. My fairly well off Atlanta relatives (my father was born in Atlanta in 1900) lived there in large one story sprawling homes that they built in the early 1950s set on a acre or more of heavily wooded land. Lennox Square shopping center opened in the late 50s or early 60s. It was a very nice and very large version of a suburban outdoor mall. Rich's and Davidson's (later Macy's) had big stores there, and it was the beginning of the commercial development of Peachtree through that area. The Jewish country club, known as the Standard Club, built a golf club nearby in the late 1940s. This came as quite a shock to Waspy residents of the area, but they learned to live together as Buckhead became the neighborhood of choice for wealthy Jewish residents. Interestingly, the Standard Club sold it's Buckhead facility in the late 1980s and built a new club much further out in what had by that time become real suburbia, Alpharetta. The Standard Club property was developed into Lennox Park, a lavish multi mid rise office park that is now home to AT%T Mobility. The grounds are still used by area residents (there are now many apartment dwellers nearby) as a leafy park. The huge amount of highrise development that took place mostly along Peachtree in the 1990s and up until today could never have been predicted back in the immediate postwar period, but the location of Buckhead at the confluence of IH75, IH 85,the GA 400 toll road, and two MARTA rail stations made this development pretty much inevitable. BTW, my two well off relatives with the big homes moved into nearby high rises and/or to Florida in the 1990s. Their sprawling one story homes were bulldozed and replaced with 10,000 plus square foot monster mansions designed to attract buyers with very grand ideas about what constitutes the good life. Buckhead's residential areas have more than a little in common with places like Beverly Hills in terms of glitz and glamour.

[The North One]

Here we go with Buckhead again...

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by The North One

Here we go with Buckhead again...

Well, it is a thread about Atlanta. Sorry you are so put out.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Buckhead is a very low density suburban center that happens to be within city limits. It has considerable highrise growth in certain nodes but is a classic version of a favored quarter edge city. Basically every major metropolitan center in the U.S. has a Buckhead.

Even Midtown Atlanta is kind of an urban lite, hybrid urban-suburban streetscape. If Midtown Atlanta were in NJ or somewhere with old-school urbanity it would be considered a suburban edge city.

For whatever reason, even though Atlanta wasn't that small pre WW2, there just isn't much prewar fabric outside of downtown proper.

Well, Bless your heart. Thank you for playing.

[Tuckerman]

The discussion on Buckhead as suburban is rather amusing. Approaching Buckhead from the North on 400 clearly gives the appearance of a large city downtown and would appear like many newer city centers in the US. Actually parts of the Buckhead area have a grid layout, particularly around the Buckhead developments between Peachtree and Piedmont Roads. As a whole, the area is rapidly becoming more dense between these two arteries. If anything the Atlanta "downtown" is a becoming a continual line of urban development from Sweet Auburn to the Perimeter with Peachtree St. as the spine connecting this, aided by the MARTA line to North Point. The short gap from the so-called Downtown to Midtown is now filling up with numerous high rises and a major node centers around Peachtree and 14th Streets. The next node is in Buckhead at Paces Ferry, then another at Lennox and another at Perimeter. Current plans to develop a very urban high street area at the Dunwoody MARTA area represent this spinal CBD development. More traditional suburban sprawl is found throughout the metro area including many areas close to this urban spine such as the Candler Park area and the mansion area of western Buckhead.

Atlanta is a good example where traditional ideas of suburban-urban begin to fall apart and have conceptual problems that cannot be overcome by sticking with outdated models of urban development.

[tdawg]

Crawford's comment seems like typical New Yorker snobbery, and this is coming from a New Yorker. I particularly don't understand the New Jersey comment. That could be said of any major submarket.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by tdawg

Crawford's comment seems like typical New Yorker snobbery, and this is coming from a New Yorker. I particularly don't understand the New Jersey comment. That could be said of any major submarket.

Crawford has been spewing his warped alterna-view of Atlanta for many years now. It never changes, and it's never been accurate.

[themaguffin]

Yeah, didn't we kind of go over that already? Atlanta is what it is because there are dozens of counties and numerous municipalities per county involved here, and not a damn one of them is willing to work with any of the others on anything.

Let's be clear here when we talk about "Cobb" when it comes to the Braves. "Cobb" was the former county commissioner Lee who had a secret deal to bring them here. We, the residents had NO say.

Buckhead is not a suburban town center, it is the Uptown area within the City of Atlanta.

Buckhead is not urban and the vast majority of Buckhead (land) isn't even suburban. It's miles of secluded mansions etc which is ridiculous for a supposed city.

One cannot say that "Atlanta" didn't do that when referencing suburban counties while at the same time ignoring that "Atlanta" DID do it too - Buckhead over the years grew because of the same white flight that grew in the burbs.

[Leo the Dog]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

Crawford has been spewing his warped alterna-view of _____ for many years now. It never changes, and it's never been accurate.

Fixed it.

Back to the topic, most reasonable people would never consider Buckhead as suburban. Auto-oriented (even with a Marta station), yes, but suburban, absolutely not. It's definitely an urban node within the relatively small city limits of Atlanta within the massively huge metropolitan region of greater Atlanta.

[tdawg]

Themaguffin wins for stupidest comment. Buckhead is indeed uptown Atlanta. Its closest relative is Beverly Hills. If Beverly Hills isn't even suburban, then what the hell is it? You're clearly very unfamiliar with Buckhead and Atlanta. This whole thread calls for a new Buckhead photo tour.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by austlar1

Well, it is a thread about Atlanta. Sorry you are so put out.

Except whether or not this place called Buckhead is urban has been discussed a million times before. Sorry you people are broken records.

Hint: it's not urban

[BnaBreaker]

After nearly fifteen years on this forum, it still stuns me every time a thread about Atlanta sprawl balloons to five...six...ten pages. What the hell is there to discuss? Where is the debate to be had? The discussion should go as follows: Does Atlanta sprawl a lot? Yes it does. Moving on...

[M II A II R II K]

Reminds me of this documentary:


• Video Link

[mhays]

Buckhead is a dense suburban-style node. it's stacked and reasonably dense, but wow the parking garages, despite transit. Cut the parking in half and replace that with other uses, and I'd call it urban.

Sometimes people debate with "well your city does that too," which has always mystified me as being irrelevant, but I'll agree...my city does it too. Northgate is more suburban than Buckhead.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

Crawford has been spewing his warped alterna-view of Atlanta for many years now. It never changes, and it's never been accurate.

I guess when you refuse to accept reality, you can always resort to calling everyone else liars.

Your claim that Buckhead is urban and somehow a unique typology to Atlanta, is beyond bizarre. There is absolutely nothing supporting your ridiculous claims. Buckhead is very low density, heavily autocentric, 99% unwalkable, mostly postwar growth and classic upscale, favored quarter suburbia/edge city.

It's SFH in dense woods, with a edge city highrise cluster.There's a Buckhead in every major metro area in the U.S. If Buckhead is urban than basically any business node in any U.S. metro area can be urban.

[Docere]

Buckhead = Bethesda?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Docere

Buckhead = Bethesda?

There are some very broad similarities, but Bethesda is much older, denser, more walkable and transit oriented. And Bethesda isn't the dominant retail, office or hotel center like Buckhead.

The DC analogy to Buckhead would probably be Tysons Corner. Both are postwar edge cities surrounded by wooded estates, both have a very important business core, both are the dominant regional retail centers, both have rail access. There are no estates near Bethesda; on the Maryland side of DC the mansions are to the northwest around Potomac.

Bethesda-Chevy Chase is more the DC analogue to Westchester County, NY. Older suburbia, relatively small (for a rich area), expensive homes, very NIMBY, liberal. The kind of place you spend $1.2 million for an unrenovated 50's house with one-car garage on small lot and brag you got a deal.