Atlanta Beltline

[dante2308]

I'm going to retire, but I will leave you with a warning. Obama is actually capable of wining the election so I urge that you get used to the concept of a black president and entertain the possibility of a good black president.

[gttx]

What a great thread.
Question: which candidate, if elected, can promise me that the Beltline gets built as envisioned? That's all I really care about right now...

[Andrea]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

Lest you think ME a racist, know I'd gladly vote for Herman Cain for governor and J.C. Watts for President if they were on the ballot. But many white Georgians wouldn't. However, they have elected blacks to statewide office, but only if those blacks come across as basically non-partisan.

Herman Cain and J.C. Watts aren't non-partisan. They are both zealous Republicans.

[Andrea]

.

[BabydaddyATL]

All I have to say is, if you support this war, I better never hear one damn compliant about your taxes. That means all you Republicans that support the NeoCon agenda that has racked up close to $2 Trillion in debt!

[dante2308]

Meanwhile, Buck is looking for an Atlanta thread moderator. This is why this has gone on so long.

Andrea, no reflections on the way the thread ended? I notice a deleted post there. I guess most of Fiorenza's posts amounted to wishful thinking as opposed to objective analysis. He wanted white people to reject Obama. He wanted to reject his agenda and he wanted to believe he had no substance and could not debate. So great was his desire for Obama to fail that it drove on a 7 page discussion on the topic!

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/

Obama and the democrats are ahead right now. Lets see if this holds up.

[L.ARCH]

Obama's going to win...and it's gonna be a blowout! I can't believe some people's arguements.. The direction and momentum of this country is changing as much as its political, idological, and cultural make up has changed in the past 20 years. Times are changing folks, TRY TO KEEP UP!

[gttx]

Originally Posted by L.ARCH

I can't believe some people's arguements..

Sometimes it seems incredible that people can hold on to beliefs and formulate such nonsensical arguments.....but when someone finally comes along that challenges ideological, sometimes radical beliefs, people cling to what little they have to resist that change. A lot of people aren't ready for what Obama is saying, not because they have a better solution or because they don't like him as a candidate, but simply because, deep down, they fear change in their lives, even if that change has the potential to be very good.

[civilexpert]

I thought I had posted two intelligent topics to get this thread moving, but instead you people(edited) start talking politics.

If anyone else has been unfortunate to come across this thread, please come visit my forum, where I'm trying to start a useful discussion about the beltline:

http://www.civiltips.com
A discussion forum for civil engineers, planner, and developers

[Fiorenza]

civilexpert,

From my side, I'm sorry we hijacked the thread. I had my say and I'll not continue to engage in political discussion here, at least not in regards to 2008 campaign politics.

[dante2308]

I think we learned a lot about certain things. I apologize to those who wanted to talk about the Beltline, but you know.. politics is a hot topic this year. It is nice that people are a lot more informed this time around and I encourage everyone here to engage their friends and family on the topic. Change in the government comes from a change in the people and that starts with the simple sharing of ideas.

[BabydaddyATL]

Originally Posted by dante2308

I think we learned a lot about certain things. I apologize to those who wanted to talk about the Beltline, but you know.. politics is a hot topic this year. It is nice that people are a lot more informed this time around and I encourage everyone here to engage their friends and family on the topic. Change in the government comes from a change in the people and that starts with the simple sharing of ideas.

Dante, very well said and mature.

[Fiorenza]

Just remember, when you subsidize the less productive people and organizations, and tax or penalize the more productive, then the more productive will either become less productive or exit the system completely. The system is then supported by less of the more productive elements and burdened with more of the less productive elements.

[Fiorenza]

American Murder Mystery

[BabydaddyATL]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

Just remember, when you subsidize the less productive people and organizations, and tax or penalize the more productive, then the more productive will either become less productive or exit the system completely. The system is then supported by less of the more productive elements and burdened with more of the less productive elements.

Also Fiorenza you should remember that the strength of our country has been that the US had a large middle class base. The middle class is decreasing at the fastest rate ever. Also, the top 5% of wealth earners are increasing their incomes at the fastest rate ever.

As an American I believe that the harder you work, the more you should be rewarded. However, what is going on in corporate America today is just outrageous. When Robert Nardelli, ex-CEO of Home Depot, gets canned after 5 years for lack of performance and walks away with $210 Million - then something in this country is totally "F'ed" up! This is not an isolated event either. Even Warren Buffet say's that most high-worth individuals pay less in taxes on a percentage basis than his secretary.

[Fiorenza]

I'm aware of it, but you're talking about a situation where legislation doesn't necessarily result in a high level of compliance. For example, what if Exxon-Mobil were to move their HQ to Bermuda and Home Depot were to move their HQ to Panama? And hire non-US tax persons as CEOs?

All the real wealth has already left the building anyway. Ask your friend Warren Buffet.

[BabydaddyATL]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

I'm aware of it, but you're talking about a situation where legislation doesn't necessarily result in a high level of compliance. For example, what if Exxon-Mobil were to move their HQ to Bermuda and Home Depot were to move their HQ to Panama?

Then you tax the hell out of them for goods they import into the US or force them to delist their stock from the American stock exchanges. A prime example is KKR, a division of Halliburton, the company DICK Cheney was CEO, and one of the largest US government contractors, recently moved their headquarters to Dubai. The government should of said, Fine - if you do not want to abide by US laws and the US tax system, then I wish you the best winning Dubai government contracts because you just lost your status as US government contractor. C'ya...don't let the door hit ya...Siyanara!!!

[Fiorenza]

Such moves could certainly be accompanied by de-listings. Public companies are not thrilled by the US equity markets these days, especially not with SOX. And, under international treaties and agreements you can't discriminate against foreign companies doing business in the US. Of course, you could pull a Chavez and nationalize their US assets, but that has a downside as well.

[BabydaddyATL]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

Such moves could certainly be accompanied by de-listings. Public companies are not thrilled by the US equity markets these days, especially not with SOX. And, under international treaties and agreements you can't discriminate against foreign companies doing business in the US. Of course, you could pull a Chavez and nationalize their US assets, but that has a downside as well.

Just about every US based company derives about 60%+ of their yearly income from sales to US consumers or businesses. So if they threaten the US government or citizens with moving - WHO REALLY IS IN CONTROL? Given you have the right administration that will penalize the hell out of them. If I know you Fiorenza, you don't take Iran threatening the US lightly. Why would you take US corporations threatening us any differently? I would like a response to this question.

[Fiorenza]

BD, corporations need regulation. But, when government regulation gets into salary controls and windfall profits taxes, then you can be sure that the corporations have countermeasures. Other countries are in competition with the US and would love the investment, and anyway the US dollar-based methods of persuasion aren't what they used to be - in or out of the US. If put under excessive regulation, just watch what these companies do....not what they say they're doing or not doing.