Amazon HQ2 thread

[chris08876]

Hopefully if it goes to Newark, it would jump start the "Four Corners Millennium" project.

I think in the end, this will be in the tri-state area. Its the logical choice.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It's not so much what Trump is doing as much as what Trudeau is doing, so to speak. The Global Skills Strategy and Express Entry Programs in Canada are way easier for employers to use to hire global talent than the HB2 program in the USA.

Canada also has a feature called Provincial Nominee programs, in which the federal government essentially gives blocks of work visas to local governments to hand out to foreign nationals as each province sees fit for the economic development strategies. Ontario (the province Toronto is in) could more or less give Amazon visa allocations to hire foreigners as part of an incentives package through this program.

I think it's due to what they are both doing. The trump admin challenged way more H1B visas this year than is typical. I think they challenged over 40% of them with requests for more information, but in a typical year the government hardly ever challenges an H1B. This was extremely disruptive because the workers could not work during this period. I know several people who were on unpaid leave for months until it was resolved.

Trump has also stated his intentions to cut the H1B lottery cap nearly in half. My guess is that Toronto gets this because of what I've seen going on with H1Bs this year at my company.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire

Our immigration policies are more lenient than Canada.... Sippin that Vox koolaid a bit too much my friend.

I don't think Trump's immigration "policies" would be more lenient than Canada's are (considering that "his" policies would be based on a highly-restrictive quota system proposed by Sessions, Bannon, et al, and based in part on the nation's 1924 ethnic/racial quota immigration regulations). I was not referring to the US's current policies... I think that was quite clear in my tongue-in-cheek post.

And I don't even know what "Sippin that Vox koolaid" means, and I don't care to. I imagine it's supposed to be some sort of insult in your mind. Please don't take a silly post from pages back and derail the topic because it fits in with your Chump-loving agenda. There you go... tit for insult tat. Now please go away.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by chris08876

Hopefully if it goes to Newark, it would jump start the "Four Corners Millennium" project.

I think in the end, this will be in the tri-state area. Its the logical choice.

That's a pretty impressive project for Newark... though I have to say that I'm getting tired of the mega development projects. It's hearkening back a bit too much to dark places in urban planning.

[JoeMusashi]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It's not so much what Trump is doing as much as what Trudeau is doing, so to speak. The Global Skills Strategy and Express Entry Programs in Canada are way easier for employers to use to hire global talent than the HB2 program in the USA.

Canada also has a feature called Provincial Nominee programs, in which the federal government essentially gives blocks of work visas to local governments to hand out to foreign nationals as each province sees fit for the economic development strategies. Ontario (the province Toronto is in) could more or less give Amazon visa allocations to hire foreigners as part of an incentives package through this program.

You don’t find this to be a little alarming that powerful corporations (the online equivalent of Walmart) are dictating immigration policy? The long term ramifications of nations prioritizing foreign ‘hired guns’ and a permanent serf-class (open borders in the US) will be the end of the nation-state. Sometimes I feel like we watching a modern day ‘party switch’ play out, where the Democrats (left-wing) have become the champions of business interests running the country.

If Amazon can’t find workers in the US or Canada, why don’t they just build this facility in Mumbai or Mogadishu or wherever they supposedly need workers from? Certainly the advances in communications, teleconferencing, and wealth of the jetsetting tech crowd allows them to build wherever they want.

[Khantilever]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

Just like the cost of living thing. It obviously is not important in the scheme of things.

Yup, this bugs me like crazy with all these terrible "analyses" of Amazon's choice. They're trying to estimate the desirability of a city to firms and workers as a function of cost of living, when cost of living is already a function of the desirability of a city (among other things).

[10023]

Originally Posted by JoeMusashi

You don’t find this to be a little alarming that powerful corporations (the online equivalent of Walmart) are dictating immigration policy? The long term ramifications of nations prioritizing foreign ‘hired guns’ and a permanent serf-class (open borders in the US) will be the end of the nation-state. Sometimes I feel like we watching a modern day ‘party switch’ play out, where the Democrats (left-wing) have become the champions of business interests running the country.

If Amazon can’t find workers in the US or Canada, why don’t they just build this facility in Mumbai or Mogadishu or wherever they supposedly need workers from? Certainly the advances in communications, teleconferencing, and wealth of the jetsetting tech crowd allows them to build wherever they want.

Infrastructure, rule of law and governance, etc.

The people are the most mobile part of a business.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Omaharocks

I've always said Austin and Dallas are my favorites, but seeing how clustered the final 20 picks are in the northeast, I'll add Philly to my top 3. I think it has the best chance in the east.

Literally the first point in the RFP is related to transit. I don't see how any Sunbelt city other than Atlanta even remotely qualifies. Having one street car line in your city does not equal a transit system.

IMO, when you actually read the RFP, it reads like it was written for Philadelphia.

It's the only large city with an extensive regional transit system that isn't prohibitively expensive. It's chock full of students and one of the fastest growing population of millenials in the country. It arguably has the best business school in the world (Wharton) literally sitting next to a pre-approved site which already has zoning (Schuykill Yards) which literally sits on top of the 3rd busiest train station in the country (offering 1 hour train rides to NYC and sub 2 hour train rides to DC). Add to that, Penn Undergrad, Drexel (Engineering Focus, again right on the proposed Amazon campus), Temple (which just pierced the top 50) all within walking distance with Villanova, Swarthmore, Haverford, Bryn Mawr, the University of Delaware, and Princeton all not that much further afield (30-60 minutes away) it really is the location to beat.

The elites in NY and DC abhor the idea of Philadelphia being more suitable to Amazon than they are, but I just really think it is the city to beat. Certainly an underdog in the media, but I don't really think Bezos cares about what media types think. They afterall, have to validate their own choices, so of course they're going to push the narrative that it has to be NYC, DC, or Austin. Because that's where they all live.

My top 3 are Atlanta, Chicago, and Philly....with the edge going to Philly.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by JoeMusashi

You don’t find this to be a little alarming that powerful corporations (the online equivalent of Walmart) are dictating immigration policy? The long term ramifications of nations prioritizing foreign ‘hired guns’ and a permanent serf-class (open borders in the US) will be the end of the nation-state. Sometimes I feel like we watching a modern day ‘party switch’ play out, where the Democrats (left-wing) have become the champions of business interests running the country.

If Amazon can’t find workers in the US or Canada, why don’t they just build this facility in Mumbai or Mogadishu or wherever they supposedly need workers from? Certainly the advances in communications, teleconferencing, and wealth of the jetsetting tech crowd allows them to build wherever they want.

If you consider American industrial history, then you shouldn't find it alarming at all that powerful corporate interests dictate immigration policy.

Under heavy influence from the steel/railroad industry primarily (and its many, many relatives), the US government adopted a laissez-faire policy towards immigration from the later 1800s to the 1920s.

Dire predictions of the "end of the nation-state" due to foreign workers have been thrown around over and over again throughout our history... and guess what? Those warnings about the supposed "prioritizing" of immigrants have been proven to be full of shit.

[Kumdogmillionaire]

Originally Posted by pj3000

I don't think Trump's immigration "policies" would be more lenient than Canada's are (considering that "his" policies would be based on a highly-restrictive quota system proposed by Sessions, Bannon, et al, and based in part on the nation's 1924 ethnic/racial quota immigration regulations). I was not referring to the US's current policies... I think that was quite clear in my tongue-in-cheek post.

And I don't even know what "Sippin that Vox koolaid" means, and I don't care to. I imagine it's supposed to be some sort of insult in your mind. Please don't take a silly post from pages back and derail the topic because it fits in with your Chump-loving agenda. There you go... tit for insult tat. Now please go away.

See, where you went wrong was assuming I am a fan of Trump, which I'm not. I'm just no fan of spreading of misinformation. Trudeau plans on making it easier for educated and qualified people to get into Canada, which is great. What he isn't do is allowing people from poor backgrounds to flood into his country, despite projecting an image that he thinks everyone should do that, a la the EU.

Regardless, Bezos did not become the richest man in the world by trying to make political points or virtue signal by putting his company's well-being on the line. He made it by making smart business moves, and Toronto, while not a terrible choice, is far from the best choice for them to make the best logistical move for a second headquarters.

That sort of logic falls as flat as the logic I saw people use a couple months ago where they were certain that Bezos would pick New York because he has a 30 million dollar condo downtown, as if owning property somewhere has anything to do with a man's decision for what to do with his company. (If anything, land costs are the exact thing that will make New York fall out of this competition, and him having a first hand awareness of that should make him fearful.)

[JoeMusashi]

Originally Posted by 10023

Infrastructure, rule of law and governance, etc.

The people are the most mobile part of a business.

That’s what is so bothersome about this. These businesses want the best of both worlds and aren’t fully invested in the nations that are enriching them or providing them talent. India gets sucked dry of talent and Americans get passed over for foreigners. Whatever city wins this bid will certainly be paying out a kings ransom in American tax dollars for them to turn around hiring foreigners. The recent news of Bezos donating $33 million dollars to DACA students to attend college sticks in my craw. The United States is 65% of Amazon’s business and has made him fabulously wealthy yet his customers get passed over in philanthropy too. Why aren’t they using this wealth to train American workers for their future instead of playing political games? Instead, the average American not from the privileged class (wealthy or ethnic) has to go into debt to the tune of at least $50,000 to even work at these places.

It’s all very frustrating as an American and partially explains the recent political climate.

[JoeMusashi]

Originally Posted by pj3000

If you consider American industrial history, then you shouldn't find it alarming at all that powerful corporate interests dictate immigration policy.

Under heavy influence from the steel/railroad industry primarily (and its many, many relatives), the US government adopted a laissez-faire policy towards immigration from the later 1800s to the 1920s.

Dire predictions of the "end of the nation-state" due to foreign workers have been thrown around over and over again throughout our history... and guess what? Those warnings about the supposed "prioritizing" of immigrants have been proven to be full of shit.

The difference being that those countries were thousands of miles away, we promoted assimilation rather than multiculturalism, and we have devices in our pockets that keep us constantly divided over race/class/sex/politics. The country has changed. I’m not sure we can continue to assimilate a nation of numerous easy offended tribes who can’t even agree on the national anthem anymore. I hope I am wrong but the combination of technology, low birth rates, and an expectation that the West needs to be a dumping ground for all the worlds troubles has me pessimistic. Eventually American citizens need to be the focus.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire

See, where you went wrong was assuming I am a fan of Trump, which I'm not. I'm just no fan of spreading of misinformation. Trudeau plans on making it easier for educated and qualified people to get into Canada, which is great. What he isn't do is allowing people from poor backgrounds to flood into his country, despite projecting an image that he thinks everyone should do that, a la the EU.

Regardless, Bezos did not become the richest man in the world by trying to make political points or virtue signal by putting his company's well-being on the line. He made it by making smart business moves, and Toronto, while not a terrible choice, is far from the best choice for them to make the best logistical move for a second headquarters.

That sort of logic falls as flat as the logic I saw people use a couple months ago where they were certain that Bezos would pick New York because he has a 30 million dollar condo downtown, as if owning property somewhere has anything to do with a man's decision for what to do with his company. (If anything, land costs are the exact thing that will make New York fall out of this competition, and him having a first hand awareness of that should make him fearful.)

Well, where you went wrong is assuming that I was "Sippin that Vox koolaid"... which I don't even understand... only figuring it is condescending in some way based on the tone of your response. and I'm not sure where my joking initial post about Bezos saying screw you to Trump was "spreading misinformation". Immigration policy under Trump (based on largely Jeff Sessions' and others' racist views) would be more restrctive than what Trudeau's administration plans.

Other than that, I agree with what you say here.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by JoeMusashi

That’s what is so bothersome about this. These businesses want the best of both worlds and aren’t fully invested in the nations that are enriching them or providing them talent. India gets sucked dry of talent and Americans get passed over for foreigners. Whatever city wins this bid will certainly be paying out a kings ransom in American tax dollars for them to turn around hiring foreigners. The recent news of Bezos donating $33 million dollars to DACA students to attend college sticks in my craw. The United States is 65% of Amazon’s business and has made him fabulously wealthy yet his customers get passed over in philanthropy too. Why aren’t they using this wealth to train American workers for their future instead of playing political games? Instead, the average American not from the privileged class (wealthy or ethnic) has to go into debt to the tune of at least $50,000 to even work at these places.

It’s all very frustrating as an American and partially explains the recent political climate.

It's called the free market. Based on what you say here, you are advocating for much more restrictive laws on business practices and on personal wealth.

Originally Posted by JoeMusashi

The difference being that those countries were thousands of miles away, we promoted assimilation rather than multiculturalism, and we have devices in our pockets that keep us constantly divided over race/class/sex/politics. The country has changed. I’m not sure we can continue to assimilate a nation of numerous easy offended tribes who can’t even agree on the national anthem anymore. I hope I am wrong but the combination of technology, low birth rates, and an expectation that the West needs to be a dumping ground for all the worlds troubles has me pessimistic. Eventually American citizens need to be the focus.

Asian countries, Middle Eastern countries, Central and South American countries... they are also thousands of miles away. Just like "those countries" at the turn of the last century.

It's amazing how precise history is in repeating itself. Sentiments about assimilation, multiculturalism, technological innovation, not enough 'American' babies being born, and the whole 'America First' notions... wow... did you travel in time here from 1919?

[Car(e)-Free LA]

Originally Posted by JoeMusashi

You don’t find this to be a little alarming that powerful corporations (the online equivalent of Walmart) are dictating immigration policy? The long term ramifications of nations prioritizing foreign ‘hired guns’ and a permanent serf-class (open borders in the US) will be the end of the nation-state. Sometimes I feel like we watching a modern day ‘party switch’ play out, where the Democrats (left-wing) have become the champions of business interests running the country.

I love it. I'm a globlist neoliberal shill, and you just described my ultimate fantasy.

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire

That sort of logic falls as flat as the logic I saw people use a couple months ago where they were certain that Bezos would pick New York because he has a 30 million dollar condo downtown, as if owning property somewhere has anything to do with a man's decision for what to do with his company. (If anything, land costs are the exact thing that will make New York fall out of this competition, and him having a first hand awareness of that should make him fearful.)

While land prices are high, and the cost of living, there are a lot of benefits. Access to talent, proximity to other F500, transit, 3 major air ports, the ability to house the work force, along with the proximity of other Amazon entities or locations of business.

Cities in the tri-state went from a much bigger list, to a top 20. Soon, the top 10, and I have a feeling you may be surprised.

If you look at the concentration of top 20 cities, they mostly tend to be in the NE and Mid-Atlantic region. Narrowing the hits on the dart-board that will hit bulls eye somewhere along these regions. It seems to heavily favor the East Coast, North of Virginia.

Land prices have not stopped top-companies and tenants from doing business in the Big Apple. The big players all congregate here. The locations are there: LIC, DoBro, HY/Midtown West.

If they want to avoid the premium of the land prices, that's where Newark comes in handy. All the proximity benefits, at a cheaper price.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Literally the first point in the RFP is related to transit. I don't see how any Sunbelt city other than Atlanta even remotely qualifies. Having one street car line in your city does not equal a transit system.

No city south of San Francisco or DC has even remotely Seattle's transit commute share. And certainly nothing like Amazon's HQ1, half of which is an extension of the core CBD and the other half a more distant downtown-edge area. The 2016 ACS had Austin (city of) at 4.0% transit share, Atlanta at 10.0%, Dallas at 4.3%, Denver at 6.8%, Raleigh at 2.0%, and Seattle at 20.8%. In-city numbers aren't apples-to-apples and obviously aren't Amazon's potential commute radius but it's a stark difference. Further, Amazon is used to having onsite parking for a small percentage of its workers because most take transit, carpool, walk, bike, etc.

[JoeMusashi]

Originally Posted by pj3000

It's called the free market. Based on what you say here, you are advocating for much more restrictive laws on business practices and on personal wealth.

Asian countries, Middle Eastern countries, Central and South American countries... they are also thousands of miles away. Just like "those countries" at the turn of the last century.

It's amazing how precise history is in repeating itself. Sentiments about assimilation, multiculturalism, technological innovation, not enough 'American' babies being born, and the whole 'America First' notions... wow... did you travel in time here from 1919?

The free market was demonized for decades by the same people who are now promoting it. What changed so rapidly? It was only a few years ago that Trump's politics were more at home in the Democratic Party and even Occupy Wall Street than it was in the ivory towers of the GOP establishment.

These nations in the past were a world away. No longer is there a disconnect from the mother country requiring someone to fully assimilate. At least in the lower classes. I don’t think you can compare what will happen in the future to the past. The availability of information and instant connection to any place on the planet changes this. The demand for endless immigration from throughout the world risks Balkanization without a common bond. This common bond has been whittled down so much over the years that I find it hard that people can even rally around the nation.

National pride has been polticized and turned into a racial issue. American History is politicized and practically every person who created this nation will be removed in disgrace. Wedges are driven everywhere between Americans that is hard to imagine what future immigrants could even latch onto. You can’t assimilate into nothing. And if we are just going to be a country where money is the only thing that matters, then I expect very bad things in the future unless this country grows up.

Sorry for the off-topic discussion but I think it sort of plays into this Willy Wonka-esque hysteria over Amazon.

[Kumdogmillionaire]

Originally Posted by chris08876

While land prices are high, and the cost of living, there are a lot of benefits. Access to talent, proximity to other F500, transit, 3 major air ports, the ability to house the work force, along with the proximity of other Amazon entities or locations of business.

Cities in the tri-state went from a much bigger list, to a top 20. Soon, the top 10, and I have a feeling you may be surprised.

If you look at the concentration of top 20 cities, they mostly tend to be in the NE and Mid-Atlantic region. Narrowing the hits on the dart-board that will hit bulls eye somewhere along these regions. It seems to heavily favor the East Coast, North of Virginia.

Land prices have not stopped top-companies and tenants from doing business in the Big Apple. The big players all congregate here. The locations are there: LIC, DoBro, HY/Midtown West.

If they want to avoid the premium of the land prices, that's where Newark comes in handy. All the proximity benefits, at a cheaper price.

I'm definitely not arguing that NYC has no chance at winning, and as you point out there are many great attributes for settling there(perhaps at Hudson Yards), buuuuut..... if they don't get it, my guess would be due to high costs

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by JoeMusashi

That’s what is so bothersome about this. These businesses want the best of both worlds and aren’t fully invested in the nations that are enriching them or providing them talent. India gets sucked dry of talent and Americans get passed over for foreigners. Whatever city wins this bid will certainly be paying out a kings ransom in American tax dollars for them to turn around hiring foreigners. The recent news of Bezos donating $33 million dollars to DACA students to attend college sticks in my craw. The United States is 65% of Amazon’s business and has made him fabulously wealthy yet his customers get passed over in philanthropy too. Why aren’t they using this wealth to train American workers for their future instead of playing political games? Instead, the average American not from the privileged class (wealthy or ethnic) has to go into debt to the tune of at least $50,000 to even work at these places.

It’s all very frustrating as an American and partially explains the recent political climate.

You realize Jeff Bezos is the son of a Cuban immigrant?

Americans are immigrants. The only place in this country where people don't seem to realize that is the Bible Belt. I have no idea why.

You can't help somebody who doesn't want to be helped. While old angry white men stand around screaming about how everyone around them is moving forward....well, everyone else is...moving forward.

Aren't they always the ones that say everyone should pull themselves up by their bootstraps? Well shut up and do it already.

There are programs all over this country to help people get a leg up. You just have to put some effort into finding them and do something about it. My sister, who is educated but in an underpaying career in social work, is in a "bridge" nursing program at her local community college. It's geared toward people who have degrees in non-science fields or people who have a significant number of college credits but never graduated. It literally costs $700 a SEMESTER. If she makes the Deans List (which she has every semester), she gets half of her tuition back (so she's paid $350 a semester for her program). After 3 years of part time classes (while working 2 jobs and raising 2 kids alone), she's starting last year at an accredited university so she can do her clinicals. In 1 year, she'll be a BSN making about $80K a year.

After she has a nursing job, virtually any hospital she's at will pay for her masters. At that point, she'll be making over $100K a year. If she become a NP or CRNA, she'll be making $150k-$180K a year (or more). I mean. These people need to google how do I fix my life and just go do it already.

XOXO
3rd&Brown