Official Fredericton, NB projects thread - Page 307

Blue Blazer · #**6121** Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 4:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddypop

Some interesting tidbits re the meeting last night re the future of the Playhouse. Apparently they are looking at two sites....city owned land behind the Justice Building and the former SMT land on King. The most important point made was that a refurbished venue is pretty much a non-starter. Once everything is bought up to code the total seating would shrink from approx. 800 to about 450! So the obvious path forward is 45+ million for a new building which would have a main area seating capacity of 850+ plus a second smaller venue for 200-300 seats plus other amenities that the rest of the world has access to. There are various configurations as to whether is would be a single building or two adjacent buildings.

I think that there should be one building and use it as a catalyst to develop the former SMT lot. Could see the Playhouse 2.0, condos/offices and restaurants in that area and would dramatically transform the downtown.

The riverfront site is "sexy" but challenge would be parking and access let alone out annual flood scare

45 Million ? That is alot of Jimmy the Janitor and Bonnie Kilburn dance shows. Who is going to foot a bill for that. Its only used maybe 100 nights of the year if that

Twinkies · #**6122** Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 4:28 PM**

45+ Million is a big pill to swallow. How about a casino? Use the revenue from that to build the Play house.....Nevermind I lve in Fredericton. The most uptight city in the province.

Taeolas · #**6123** Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 4:43 PM**

45 million over 60 years (The current playhouse was built in 1964), and the proposed new one would have 2 stages from the sounds of it. A million a year, even if a new Playhouse only lasts 50 years, might be a bit much, but is probably be doable since events would help pay back a chunk of that.

Anyone know how much the original Playhouse cost back in 1964? (and/or updated to reflect modern dollars?)

While I'd love a Casino, I don't see Freddy getting one. I *might* see Saint John getting one eventually, but I don't see the province having enough traffic, nor local population to support much more than we have now.

MonctonRad · #**6124** Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 4:53 PM**

Why would refurbishing the current playhouse and "bringing it up to code" reduce it's seating capacity by one half???

SJ restored the Imperial Theatre and Moncton restored the Capitol. Why can't Freddy restore the Playhouse. What's the limiting factor here??

Taeolas · #**6125** Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 5:25 PM**

No clue. Maybe aisle spacing and seat size regulations have changed? I believe the Playhouse has some pretty extensive structural issues as well, so they may need to beef up some load bearing areas and/or add new structure load points that could eat up seating.

I've only been to the Playhouse a few times myself so I don't know any details about what needs to change to modernize it and bring it up to code.

Twinkies · #**6126** Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 5:37 PM**

I cant see Fredericton ever getting a Casino and not due to lack of traffic. Remember this is the same government that paid $750,000 for a strip club.

MonctonRad · #**6127** Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 5:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twinkies

this is the same government that paid $750,000 for a strip club.

What does the government do with the strip club? Is this where they entertain visiting foreign dignitaries??

trev71 · #**6128** Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 6:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Why would refurbishing the current playhouse and "bringing it up to code" reduce it's seating capacity by one half???

SJ restored the Empress and Moncton restored the Capitol. Why can't Freddy restore the Playhouse. What's the limiting factor here??

That is what I would like to know. Just saying the Capitol Theatre in Moncton is a great place. Ive been there more times in the last 5 years then Ive been to the playhouse in Fredericton and i dont even live in Fredericton.

Sure the chairs arent the most comfortable but no difference than a movie theatre really

Twinkies · #**6129** Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 6:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

What does the government do with the strip club? Is this where they entertain visiting foreign dignitaries??

They torn it down.

Freddypop · #**6130** Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 7:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Why would refurbishing the current playhouse and "bringing it up to code" reduce it's seating capacity by one half???

SJ restored the Empress and Moncton restored the Capitol. Why can't Freddy restore the Playhouse. What's the limiting factor here??

Based on the consultants report.....In order to meet new building codes the seating would have to be reduced to approx. 450. This would be as a result of the removal of the balcony because new codes require an elevator. No space to accommodate without removal. Also some main floor seating would be lost due to requirement for a barrier free access. Also would result in a smaller lobby.

Remember the 45 million does not take into account land procurement or Playhouse 1.0 demolition. I expect that the intent is to hit up Feds and PNB for 1/3 each to help pay. Let's call this our "event centre" ask

MonctonRad · #**6131** Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 8:06 PM**

Fair enough.

There is a small elevator (I believe) at the Capitol Theatre, but not much (if any) accessible seating in the balcony. I wonder if the code regulations have changed since the Capitol was renovated in the mid 1990's. If so, I wonder if there is any leeway for "historical" renovation projects to still get approved. Gems like the Capitol and the Imperial Theatre in Saint John are few and far between in Canada, and the few that are left should not be sacrificed just because they aren't "up to code". Historical preservation should be respected.

Taeolas · #**6132** Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 9:23 PM**

There probably are exemptions that could be made for classical buildings. The Playhouse on the other hand, while a great little theatre, I don't think I'd classify it as a Classical look. It was made in the 60's and looks pretty bog standard other than the roofline, which in turn is partly hidden now by the convention centre.

Moving over to the SMT lot would be a great idea; not sure what its existing site could be used for; maybe just some green space would be nice.

(And that said, I'm a little loathe to lose the SMT site, since it would be great for a proper Freddy Transit's hub too)

Freddypop · #**6133** Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 9:40 PM**

Yep...Codes have changed. Makes the refurbishment option redundant

D3nZ · #**6134** Posted **Nov 2, 2014, 4:13 PM**

Simply by changing the seats and putting them to code they would probably lose capacity. The same thing happened in Edmundston when they renovated theirs a year ago. Usually, renovations mean new seats and a more comfortable experience for your clients. If you don't touch the seats and leave it as is, there would be no problem.

Kinda reminds me of Fenway Park and the old attached seats. They are the same seats that were installed in the first renovation of the place when Yawkey bought the team. If they would change the seats they would have to put in new ones that must be to code, by doing so they would become the smallest ballpark in the MLB and that also means less revenue for the owners. That's why they are not touching those.

Taeolas · #**6135** Posted **Nov 4, 2014, 7:48 PM**

As mentioned by someone else earlier, fixing York Arena is now 3.1 million dollars.

As for where the money's coming from?

Quote:

York Arena repair cost up from $2.4M to $3.1M. 15+ capital projects won't get done this year to pay for it.

Long term operating costs are also around $200k than originally estimated:

Quote:

The city is now estimating it will need to spend $1 million on the facility between 2016 and 2024. That is up from the previous estimate of $833,400.

Freddypop · #**6136** Posted **Nov 4, 2014, 8:07 PM**

Although I believe there is a requirement for a 6th ice surface in Freddy I don't believe the $$$ should be spent on a refurbishment. Sorta like my old car that keeps needing repairs..teases me because I love it...then needs new brakes, muffler, body work, etc. Never seems to end! Would rather build a new basic addition to WOR...make it a 3-plex. Not sure of cost but $4 million should help with a basic addition. Perhaps other have a more realistic cost of a basic 3rd ice surface?

Blue Blazer · #**6137** Posted **Nov 4, 2014, 8:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeolas

As mentioned by someone else earlier, fixing York Arena is now 3.1 million dollars.

As for where the money's coming from?

Long term operating costs are also around $200k than originally estimated:

Time to put her to sleep. This is costing the tax payers too much money.

Taeolas · #**6138** Posted **Nov 4, 2014, 8:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddypop

Although I believe there is a requirement for a 6th ice surface in Freddy I don't believe the $$$ should be spent on a refurbishment. Sorta like my old car that keeps needing repairs..teases me because I love it...then needs new brakes, muffler, body work, etc. Never seems to end! Would rather build a new basic addition to WOR...make it a 3-plex. Not sure of cost but $4 million should help with a basic addition. Perhaps other have a more realistic cost of a basic 3rd ice surface?

Well Grant-Harvey cost 30 million for it's 2 surfaces and all the bells and whistles.

I'm googling but failing to find out how much Willie O'Ree cost. I do see comments about how they had budgeted 40 million for both originally, and G-H was originally planned for the 25 million mark, which would imply Willie O'Ree was estimated around 15 million for its 2 surfaces and extras.

So completely guessing here, but for just a surface and surrounding structure, to turn it into a 3-plex would probably come to around 5 million at that point. Hell you could probably build a new 1-plex at the York site for around that much really.

Franco401 · #**6139** Posted **Nov 4, 2014, 8:39 PM**

This discussion is getting depressing with all this York Arena and budget issues, so I have another question. What do we think should be done with the Playhouse lot when (if?) it is replaced? Should we bring some sort of new facility or development to the property, or preserve the land as a park (Legislative Park, perhaps)? If the Playhouse goes on the Waterfront, what (aside from a transit hub, which is obvious) should go on the SMT land?

Oh, and as for ice surfaces, I like the idea of O'Ree being a 3-Plex, but traffic and location make the current York spot better IMO.

trev71 · #**6140** Posted **Nov 5, 2014, 2:00 PM**

From:

http://www.foxrocks.ca/local-news/20...in-fredericton

Fredericton council-in-committee has voted to raise the hourly rental fee at city arenas by $17 an hour. That brings the cost for ice-time to between $93 per hour and $188 per hour. Councillors argue the move is necessary to fix an operating deficit of more than $134 thousand dollars.

The vote must be confirmed at the next regular city council meeting.

Looks like they are trying to make some more cash.