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  #9821  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2019, 8:10 AM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Misher.........I am truly horrified that you would even put stocks and housing in the same sentence. In case you didn't realize it, housing, unlike stocks, is a neccessity of life.

By having skyhigh real estate prices like in Vancouver, the rental market becomes even more dire. This is because the warped housing market caused by flipping, speculation, and money laundering has caused the situation where thousands who could buy in the rest of the country are forced to continue to rent. This makes rentals nearly impossible to find and puts pressure on the market causing rental rates to rise far faster than the rate of inflation and wage growth.

Just as an added tidbit to exemplify how completely out of wack the real estate market is..........it now takes the average Vancouverite at the average family income of $70k a year a staggering 52 years to save up enough money in order to just get the downpayment on a standard single family home. This also results in grotesque and dangerous levels of personal indebtedness. The average Canadian is in debt 175% of income but in ultra expensive Vancouver that number is a numbing 240%.
I don’t mean to be insulting but you have no understanding of our market or how economics works. Vancouver’s vacancy rates are very low with rental and owned vacancy rates at 2% or lower. If money laundering didn’t happen then they’d still live in homes. If people didn’t speculate then we’d just have less rental supply and more owned homes. Higher prices are the only thing pushing development along at the current pace and if prices were lower development would stop unless the government made massive cuts to its taxes and fees. I seriously can’t comprehend why people can’t understand that what we’re doing isn’t magically solving our problems. People LIVE in homes here, there is no magic supply of empty homes waiting. If people sell for a lower price that’s because they’ve been pushed to move and either they are moving into a rental or moving out of the city. So if the plan is to kick homeowners out for renters then what we’re doing makes sense. If the plan is to kill the rental market by making more people buy rather than rent then what we’re doing makes sense. If the plan is to improve affordability then what we’re doing is insane, rental supply is falling not rising. Speculation, foreign buyers, etc etc were the ones driving development with stacks of cash so we could create all those rental condos and keep rents lower.

Lower prices won’t improve things because that just means people want housing less, the solution to a food shortage isn’t to make it taste worse it’s to make more food.

Last edited by misher; Sep 28, 2019 at 8:42 AM.
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  #9822  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 6:34 PM
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https://www.westerninvestor.com/news...ent-1.23963154

A very interesting article that discusses some interesting stats. For instance
Quote:
97 per cent of students live in off-campus, unaffiliated housing in the regular rental pool.
Thats a lot of students who rent. I assume this includes students who live at home. But if only 3% of the total lives in campus housing with a 28% foreign student rate this means that likely around 25% of UBC's students live off campus in rentals, likely more as many Canadians come from out of province to UBC, meaning at least 17,000 people are renting while attending UBC alone and likely much more than this. As UBC and other schools continue to expand while only building campus housing that accommodates a small % of this expansion, we're going to have to expect the rental market to handle the surplus.

Also the effect on local employment is extremely surprising!
Quote:
They also boost the local economy in myriad ways and, according to the report, boost local employment by 4.6 per cent.
I find this hard to believe. I assume they must mean "local" as in near the university rather than the entire city.
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  #9823  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 6:59 PM
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Having our universities build more on-campus residences/dorms is pretty low hanging fruit for the housing crisis. It used to be that most students could live on campus. Now, only a small minority get to do this. At my alma mater, Queen's, their rule is while first year undergrads are guaranteed on-campus housing, nobody else is, and the first-year guarantee means that something like 95% of residence spaces are occupied by them. Rents in central Kingston are massively inflated by huge demand from the student body, pushing most local renters to fringe locations. Made far worse by the fact that Queen's students generally come from upper middle class families who pay their kids rent for them and can afford to pay rents far beyond what the median renter who lives in Kingston can.

If we went on a large scale construction program to fund new residences, we'd be killing two birds with one stone: reducing demand for market housing and increasing affordability of a post-secondary education.
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  #9824  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 7:09 PM
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Originally Posted by CityTech View Post
Having our universities build more on-campus residences/dorms is pretty low hanging fruit for the housing crisis. It used to be that most students could live on campus. Now, only a small minority get to do this. At my alma mater, Queen's, their rule is while first year undergrads are guaranteed on-campus housing, nobody else is, and the first-year guarantee means that something like 95% of residence spaces are occupied by them. Rents in central Kingston are massively inflated by huge demand from the student body, pushing most local renters to fringe locations. Made far worse by the fact that Queen's students generally come from upper middle class families who pay their kids rent for them and can afford to pay rents far beyond what the median renter who lives in Kingston can.

If we went on a large scale construction program to fund new residences, we'd be killing two birds with one stone: reducing demand for market housing and increasing affordability of a post-secondary education.
SFU and UBC in Greater Vancouver have similar policies. I want to point out that UBC and several other universities in Canada have massive areas of land to develop plus they don't suffer from the same public NIMBY backlash so they can build taller. Take a look at how much land UBC has in Vancouver below, basically the size of Downtown Vancouver with much of it being low density, fields, or forest. Plus with the dorm fees UBC collects a good rental income without having to obey tenancy laws which is an awesome exemption for them.

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  #9825  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 8:47 PM
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Originally Posted by misher View Post
SFU and UBC in Greater Vancouver have similar policies. I want to point out that UBC and several other universities in Canada have massive areas of land to develop plus they don't suffer from the same public NIMBY backlash so they can build taller. Take a look at how much land UBC has in Vancouver below, basically the size of Downtown Vancouver with much of it being low density, fields, or forest. Plus with the dorm fees UBC collects a good rental income without having to obey tenancy laws which is an awesome exemption for them.

Wow.. simply ridiculous that UBC hasn't built more, they've got no excuse.

Queen's at least has the difficulty of being in an urban area surrounded by heritage neighbourhoods on all sides.
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  #9826  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 9:05 PM
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I think the tree area is not allowed to be developed as part of their agreement for the land. Its all forest, Vancouverites would lose their heads if it was ever developed. The University has done a lot of development in recent decades and has more planned. Once skytrain comes it should have a huge impact on being more viable.
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  #9827  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 9:10 PM
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Indeed. The forested area is Pacific Spirit Park, a Metro Vancouver regional park. Developing it would be akin to developing Stanley Park (Pacific Spirit is actually larger than Stanley Park, too).
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  #9828  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by csbvan View Post
Indeed. The forested area is Pacific Spirit Park, a Metro Vancouver regional park. Developing it would be akin to developing Stanley Park (Pacific Spirit is actually larger than Stanley Park, too).
Indeed.

It would make far more sense to rezone the Offshore Millionaire mansions on the UEL parcels marked A and B. It's ridiculous that so many with little connection to what's going on at the university are hogging all that land.
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  #9829  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 12:30 AM
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Indeed.

It would make far more sense to rezone the Offshore Millionaire mansions on the UEL parcels marked A and B. It's ridiculous that so many with little connection to what's going on at the university are hogging all that land.
Dude can you at least try to not be openly racist immigrant hating skinhead? Most of these homes are owned by local families and workers at UBC.

One of the most expensive was listed at $63 million by the Segals. The Sauders and other families also have homes by UBC. To accuse the people of one third world nation of holding all the wealth in one of the biggest city's of a first world nation is the height of stupidity. Especially when statistics continues to show that overwhelmingly caucasians occupy the most expensive neighborhoods in Vancouver while minorities are shoved into slums. You can even see on the below map that Chinese generally occupy the poorer East Vancouver, South Vancouver, Burnaby and Richmond. Vancouver West, Point Grey, South Granville, Downtown, Fairview? The rich neighbourhoods that are occupied by white trust fund kids and adults. You belong with the crowd that freaks out when they see a colored person living on their street. 20%+ of Vancouver is ethnically East Asian, get used to it or move somewhere else. Canada is a nation that welcomes immigrants rich or poor regardless of their skin color, personally I prefer they are rich as they are not a burden. Either get used to the fact that you YOURSELF are an immigrant/descended from immigrants or perhaps move back to your home nation. I suspect Neo-Nazis aren't very welcome anywhere anymore though.

I apologize for the rant but whatnext constantly posts incorrect hate speech propaganda trying to stir up hate against foreigners and Chinese and its very offensive to me. As you'll see below South UBC where all the cheap apartments are does have more Chinese than average (approx ~25%), but north UBC where all the mansions are has less than the average because its overwhelmingly white. You'll notice that as you get closer to downtown Vancouver (the expensive areas) you get more white people as asians along with other minorities have been relegated to slums. Statistics shows that foreigners aren't the ones living in the expensive houses in Vancouver and I find it extremely offensive that we blame our poor policy decisions on one minority despite no research other than cherry picked stats backing this up. I think everyone deserves to voice their opinion but seriously whatnext just states this constant stream of hate.


Last edited by misher; Oct 2, 2019 at 12:48 AM.
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  #9830  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 1:29 AM
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Dude can you at least try to not be openly racist immigrant hating skinhead? Most of these homes are owned by local families and workers at UBC...


The homes are owned by workers at UBC? Just another stream of uninformed rubbish from you that every Vancouver former knows so well.


...Foreign Buyers In UEL
The UEL is one of the most desired neighbourhoods in Vancouver, so naturally it has attracted well heeled foreign buyers. A study conducted by Andy Yan, an urban planner and adjunct professor at UBC, determined that 88% of homes over $5 million in the neighbourhood belonged to foreign buyers. Since the average home in the UEC is well over that number, it’s probably a decent assumption to make that the majority of homes purchased in this neighbourhood are purchased by foreign buyers.

What’s Wrong With Foreign Buyers?
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with foreign buyers, but the chances of them living in the homes the buy are fairly slim. Note, foreign buyers aren’t the same as recent immigrants. Foreign buyers use homes as an investment, for the purposes of smurfing, or just a vacation home. None of these issues by themselves is a problem in most other cities, but in Vancouver it’s a little different. Space is at a premium, and locals are struggling to find a place to live. Nevermind the actual affordability issues.
The lack of vacancy tax and lower property taxes in the UEL highlights BC’s inability to install a comprehensive plan to tackle housing issues. A large part of BC’s real estate bubble is the number of loopholes that are intentionally legislated in. It gives the appearance of action, but are really just a way to shut people up while allowing the privileged few to continue to operate just out of reach....


https://betterdwelling.com/city/vanc...vacancy-tax/#_
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  #9831  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 1:47 AM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post

The homes are owned by workers at UBC? Just another stream of uninformed rubbish from you that every Vancouver former knows so well.


...Foreign Buyers In UEL
The UEL is one of the most desired neighbourhoods in Vancouver, so naturally it has attracted well heeled foreign buyers. A study conducted by Andy Yan, an urban planner and adjunct professor at UBC, determined that 88% of homes over $5 million in the neighbourhood belonged to foreign buyers. Since the average home in the UEC is well over that number, it’s probably a decent assumption to make that the majority of homes purchased in this neighbourhood are purchased by foreign buyers.

What’s Wrong With Foreign Buyers?
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with foreign buyers, but the chances of them living in the homes the buy are fairly slim. Note, foreign buyers aren’t the same as recent immigrants. Foreign buyers use homes as an investment, for the purposes of smurfing, or just a vacation home. None of these issues by themselves is a problem in most other cities, but in Vancouver it’s a little different. Space is at a premium, and locals are struggling to find a place to live. Nevermind the actual affordability issues.
The lack of vacancy tax and lower property taxes in the UEL highlights BC’s inability to install a comprehensive plan to tackle housing issues. A large part of BC’s real estate bubble is the number of loopholes that are intentionally legislated in. It gives the appearance of action, but are really just a way to shut people up while allowing the privileged few to continue to operate just out of reach....


https://betterdwelling.com/city/vanc...vacancy-tax/#_
Yes lets use an opinion piece on a blog with a guesstimate over the bloody census by the government. 27% of Vancouver is of Chinese origin so yes you get some ethnic clusters.
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  #9832  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 6:34 AM
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Yes lets use an opinion piece on a blog with a guesstimate over the bloody census by the government. 27% of Vancouver is of Chinese origin so yes you get some ethnic clusters.
Sure, Yan is just an urban planner and head of Simon Fraser University's City Program, but you're a random guy on the internet.

PS though you didn't credit your source for the map, it's funny that you are quoting Douglas Todd to make your point.
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  #9833  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 6:45 PM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post

The homes are owned by workers at UBC? Just another stream of uninformed rubbish from you that every Vancouver former knows so well.
It takes gumption to engage in losing arguments on a regular basis. I'll give him props for that.
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  #9834  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by misher View Post
Dude can you at least try to not be openly racist immigrant hating skinhead? Most of these homes are owned by local families and workers at UBC.

One of the most expensive was listed at $63 million by the Segals. The Sauders and other families also have homes by UBC. To accuse the people of one third world nation of holding all the wealth in one of the biggest city's of a first world nation is the height of stupidity. Especially when statistics continues to show that overwhelmingly caucasians occupy the most expensive neighborhoods in Vancouver while minorities are shoved into slums. You can even see on the below map that Chinese generally occupy the poorer East Vancouver, South Vancouver, Burnaby and Richmond. Vancouver West, Point Grey, South Granville, Downtown, Fairview? The rich neighbourhoods that are occupied by white trust fund kids and adults. You belong with the crowd that freaks out when they see a colored person living on their street. 20%+ of Vancouver is ethnically East Asian, get used to it or move somewhere else. Canada is a nation that welcomes immigrants rich or poor regardless of their skin color, personally I prefer they are rich as they are not a burden. Either get used to the fact that you YOURSELF are an immigrant/descended from immigrants or perhaps move back to your home nation. I suspect Neo-Nazis aren't very welcome anywhere anymore though.

I apologize for the rant but whatnext constantly posts incorrect hate speech propaganda trying to stir up hate against foreigners and Chinese and its very offensive to me. As you'll see below South UBC where all the cheap apartments are does have more Chinese than average (approx ~25%), but north UBC where all the mansions are has less than the average because its overwhelmingly white. You'll notice that as you get closer to downtown Vancouver (the expensive areas) you get more white people as asians along with other minorities have been relegated to slums. Statistics shows that foreigners aren't the ones living in the expensive houses in Vancouver and I find it extremely offensive that we blame our poor policy decisions on one minority despite no research other than cherry picked stats backing this up. I think everyone deserves to voice their opinion but seriously whatnext just states this constant stream of hate.

You SJW extremists are cute. Any kind of criticism against non-caucasians and you pull the racist card. It's no wonder the leftist loonies are no longer taken so seriously.
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  #9835  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2019, 1:55 AM
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You SJW extremists are cute. Any kind of criticism against non-caucasians and you pull the racist card. It's no wonder the leftist loonies are no longer taken so seriously.
Misher is a conservative for ducks sake.
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  #9836  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2019, 2:21 AM
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I assume it's not PC anymore to refer to the place as University of Billionaire Chinese?
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  #9837  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2019, 5:52 AM
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Much like the housing market, things need to cool way down here.

May I initiate the countdown?
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There is a housing crisis, and we need to speak up about it.
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  #9838  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2019, 8:41 PM
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Also those "foreign buyer" don't include the tens of thousands of Chinese who have already bought their citizenship but of course don't live in the country little alone pay tax.

The detached HPI Index for Greater Vancouver stayed the same at $1.406 million. Of course those numbers are hugely manipulated by the REBGV and don't reflect reality. Asking prices have plunged especially in the suburbs but only the more expensive ones are selling and the cheaper ones are languishing on the market for months on end. Of course those dumps would have gone for at least a million a few years ago as the Chinese would buy and flip and/or launder their money. Now however those homes are actually having to be sold to local buyers to actually live in so those 80 years old 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom glorified dog houses aren't moving.

Another HUGE problem Vancouver has is that you have so many people who owns anywhere from 2 to 10 homes. In the rest of the world when someone has to sell and the house isn't selling they would lower their prices until it does but not in Vancouver. These homws are owned by rich Chinese who don't have to sell so they simply keep the price the same or take it off the market. Again another example of how the real estate market has absolutely no relationship to local incomes.
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  #9839  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2019, 9:23 PM
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Also those "foreign buyer" don't include the tens of thousands of Chinese who have already bought their citizenship but of course don't live in the country little alone pay tax.
Yep, actually foreign buyer stats would be a lot higher if we included immigrants. Most Chinese buyers who bought in Vancouver in 2015-2016 are Canadians. When we talk about foreign buyers in Vancouver, stats don't really support this, what people are really referring to is buyers who made their money outside the nation but have obtained Canadian citizenship. However, accusing immigrant Canadians of being the problem isn't "politically correct" so we call them foreign buyers. Actually its not just Chinese, Indo-Canadians are about half as significant as Chinese and do bring a lot of money from India. Persians bring quite a bit of money from the Middle East and have bought up downtown and West Van.

Some of this comes from the BC immigrant investor programs, after the BC economy collapsed in the 90's, we partially rebuilt our economy with foreign money. In the end there are pros and cons to every policy. We benefited from the money but of course with more money & demand prices go up. When we sell resources like wood this drives the price of wood up (which also makes homes more expensive) but also benefits us from taxes and employment. BC/Vancouver uses the higher home prices to reap huge amounts of taxes and fees which they put towards social programs, environmental initiatives, infrastructure, etc. Go to LA and you don't see bike lanes, buses, etc like you have in Vancouver. You also won't see homeless housing in downtown and its dirty everywhere. There are benefits and downsides to everything. All the stuff done by the government that makes BC/Vancouver great also costs us. I really think people should go visit other West Coast cities that have lower prices so they can see that Vancouver is definitely #1 if you ignore home prices...and nightlife.

Its clear that most buyers have citizenship or at least PR from the fact that homeownership rates in BC have been increasing despite everyone saying prices are not affordable. You wouldn't expect ownership to increase if prices were bad. In fact, Vancouver appears to be much more affordable than Montreal with a higher homeownership rate. What I suspect people don't like is that they are competing with families that made their money abroad and now have Canadian citizenship. That's a common complaint in most global cities like London, locals get shut out. However, there are benefits like jobs and as BC's employment usually leads the country its clear we have also benefited from being a global city. Look at Halifax, their homeownership rate is lower despite housing being much cheaper, thats likely because the economy sucks. Vancouver used to be Halifax and then we started bringing in immigrant investors. I know between 2002 Vancouver and 2018 Vancouver which one I would choose. 2002 sucked and most of us who remember 2002 agree on this.

Btw I suspect most nations wonder what we're talking about when Canadians say we have a homeownership problem, look at the stats below for whats normal around the world. Canadians really need to start focusing on national happiness, income, and lower rent and stop their overwhelming focus on home ownership.



Last edited by misher; Oct 3, 2019 at 9:42 PM.
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  #9840  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2019, 6:38 AM
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Is Vancouver nicer than Los Angeles, Seattle, Portland, San Fran? Nah. Get me a US green card and I’d be out of here in a second. It’s just our Canadian consolation prize.
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