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  #41  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2013, 3:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NBNYer View Post
I think it has been posted in the Canada section as this thing has been floating around for some time... and it's still far from a done deal. One of the proposals (by Architects 4), which is my personal favorite, does include some convention space. I'm not sure about the others.

It would be hugely transformative for the west end of downtown as all proposals contain significant residential and commercial components. Downtown is currently pretty stagnant and seeing minimal development in comparison to the suburban areas. The hope is that this would kit start a renewal in the area by making it more appealing for other developments and investments opportunities.
I agree with NBNYer, the Architects Four conceptual proposal was my favourite as well. In case you didn't see it, here is an image of their proposal...

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  #42  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2013, 1:25 PM
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Ok, I get it, we all want a new Downtown Events Centre, but why are we comparing ourselves with London, Ontario? A city with a population of 365K
and a metro area of 465K ??? They certainly don't have the same tax base as we do?
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  #43  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2013, 1:34 PM
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Originally Posted by OUIR@random View Post
Ok, I get it, we all want a new Downtown Events Centre, but why are we comparing ourselves with London, Ontario? A city with a population of 365K
and a metro area of 465K ??? They certainly don't have the same tax base as we do?
Because they built a similar type facility to the one that Moncton wants to build.
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  #44  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2013, 1:43 PM
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Because they built a similar type facility to the one that Moncton wants to build.

Mmmm, I don't think that answered my question. How is this sustainable? Who is expected to pay for this and how is a city 5 times smaller expected to make this realistic? We all want this for Moncton, but I truly believe that this will put Moncton in a financial mess. We should go big, but this big?
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  #45  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2013, 2:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OUIR@random View Post
Mmmm, I don't think that answered my question. How is this sustainable? Who is expected to pay for this and how is a city 5 times smaller expected to make this realistic? We all want this for Moncton, but I truly believe that this will put Moncton in a financial mess. We should go big, but this big?
I kinda wonder why London went the size they did with their centre. It could have been larger for a city that size. Moncton built an arena with a nearly 7000 capacity 40 years ago when the city was half the size it is today. I don't think a facility in the 9000-10,000 range is out of reach, and frankly I think anything less is a missed opportunity, especially considering the recent and projected demographic growth.
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  #46  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2013, 2:19 PM
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Originally Posted by NBNYer View Post
I kinda wonder why London went the size they did with their centre. It could have been larger for a city that size. Moncton built an arena with a nearly 7000 capacity 40 years ago when the city was half the size it is today. I don't think a facility in the 9000-10,000 range is out of reach, and frankly I think anything less is a missed opportunity, especially considering the recent and projected demographic growth.
Quoted for truth.

There is an excellent editorial in today's T&T about this. When I have a chance, I may try and repost it here........
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  #47  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2013, 3:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OUIR@random View Post
Mmmm, I don't think that answered my question. How is this sustainable? Who is expected to pay for this and how is a city 5 times smaller expected to make this realistic? We all want this for Moncton, but I truly believe that this will put Moncton in a financial mess. We should go big, but this big?
Moncton should go big for the reasons that both MonctonRad and NBNYer have listed. Getting that 10K threshold opens up opportunities for a plethora of more events. Events like The Brier require there to be at least 8/10K capacity. Music concert tours often set 10K as a minimum capacity. Etc., etc. If you go small (7/8K) you're voluntarily closing yourself off to events that otherwise would consider Moncton in a heartbeat.
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  #48  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2013, 3:24 PM
JasonL-Moncton JasonL-Moncton is offline
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Adding 2K more seats than already exist at the coliseum is a virtual waste of money if we don't reach that 'magic threshold' that promoters and booking agents look at for venues.

We need a 10,000 permanent seat venue to grow into, like we grew into and out of the coliseum.
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  #49  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2013, 3:31 PM
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I really don't see any more need or reasons to explain why Moncton needs a 10,000 seat facility. Arguments for something smaller or bigger is a complete waste of time.

Can we move on please.
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  #50  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2013, 3:52 PM
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I really don't see any more need or reasons to explain why Moncton needs a 10,000 seat facility. Arguments for something smaller or bigger is a complete waste of time.

Can we move on please.
Move on to what? Unless you managed to find some real info regarding the events centre, we unfortunately currently don`t have much to move on to

This is the Moncton Events Centre thread after all, where the tiniest detail about this still unconfirmed project is to be discussed ad nauseum
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  #51  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2013, 7:27 PM
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I still really do wonder where they will find the money for this. Really.
This is alot of money for a city of this size. Alot.

Time will tell and I DO hope we get it.

Last edited by OUIR@random; Mar 19, 2013 at 9:40 PM.
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  #52  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2013, 7:39 PM
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I still really do wonder where they will the money for this. Really.
This is alot of money for a city of this size. Alot.

Time will tell and I DO hope we get it.

I agree, this is my biggest fear, I worry that the Federal and Provincial Governments won't fund this project, then we would really need to have private investors...
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  #53  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2013, 8:52 PM
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I still really do wonder where they will the money for this. Really.
This is alot of money for a city of this size. Alot.

Time will tell and I DO hope we get it.
I share your hopes.

Nevertheless, you raise an excellent question.

Although this is a lot of money for a city the size of Moncton, one of the published narratives attempting to explain why Moncton is entitled to this federal stimulus is because Halifax received fedeal investment for the Nova Centre.

This is an unfair comparison, since Halifax has met two prerequisites to justify federal funding for the Nova Centre:

1) The implementation of the downtown urban planning legislation HRM_by_Design. (Moncton has no planning legislation legalised).

2) Halifax submitted their funding application and business case for the Nova Centre within the time frame specified by the federdal government. (Moncton has done neither).

The downtown events centre in Moncton could possibly receive provincial funding, but we should keep in mind that provincial funding is, in fact, federal funding, since the Province of New Brunswick is a have-not (just like Nova Scotia) and stays afloat via equalisation payments from Ottawa.

Ottawa's main criticism of the proposed Moncton Centre is that Moncton's downtown is still in the process of being de-centralised due to expanding suburbs and due to (extremely poor) provincial decisions. The relocation of Moncton High School, for instance, is going to cause people (and their money) to relocate out of (and far away from) the downtown. It is currently cheaper to develop in the suburbs, so future commercial and residential projects will prefer suburban locations regardless of a downtown events centre -- until, of course, the City of Moncton implements sustainable urban planning and tax reform, and truly commits to the downtown.

Why should Ottawa subsidise this events centre twice -- only to have to come back years down the road and subsidise the centre a third time (and possibly more) in order for it to remain open?

Giving attention to federal politics, I've noticed that the Harper Government has been desperate to fulfill its election promise of a balanced budget by 2015. Canada's economy is slowly, so in order to even fake a balanced budget the federal government is making drastic cuts to areas of the public sector. All of this will further slow Canada's economy in subsequent fiscal years; however, on paper, they may, during this one moment, say they've reached a balanced budget.
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  #54  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2013, 9:46 PM
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What money from the province? The way it's going this province will be broke in less than 10 years; cuts in education, health and road infrastructures are in ruins. But yes, there's money for a cultural infrastructure. Gimme a break! We want a new downtown events centre, but I wouldn't hold my breath for THAT money.
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  #55  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2013, 10:36 PM
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What money from the province? The way it's going this province will be broke in less than 10 years; cuts in education, health and road infrastructures are in ruins. But yes, there's money for a cultural infrastructure. Gimme a break! We want a new downtown events centre, but I wouldn't hold my breath for THAT money.
I have hopes this province will eventually focus on bringing density to its municipalities so that it can eventually have the funds to support education, healthcare, and infrastructure.

An investment in a downtown events centre would be a vital part of growing Moncton's economy IF Moncton also had sustainable urban planning legislation to draw future development 'inward' to the core, after the events centre brings these jobs and services. However: Without a plan, building the Moncton Centre to stimulate the economy is going to be like trying to spark a fire on a wet log...

Without a plan, future development will still establish itself 'outward'; hence, the City will not reap the economic benefits, and will be burdened with the additional debt from the Moncton Centre.

Urban sprawl never pays for itself. The density of the suburbs and the rural areas of the province is far too low to garnish enough tax revenue to pay for its infrastructure and public services (schools, hospitals, etc...).

This is one of the biggest contributing factors to debt in this province, in every province -- to virtually all of the developed world. The budgetary problems in New Brunswick are not unique to New Brunswick. The answers are out there; we just have to start paying attention to them!

The events centre is a smart investment.
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  #56  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 12:12 AM
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I don't need to be convinced that the center is a smart investment and that many places in North America is currently in the same situation.
What I am saying is that there is NO money and I don't know where they will find it.
New Brunswick's rich and famous will need to open their wallets somehow; McCains & Irvings, the ONLY way to go...

Last edited by OUIR@random; Mar 20, 2013 at 12:49 AM.
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  #57  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 12:23 AM
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New Brunswick's rich and famous will need to open their wallets somehow; McCains & Irvings, the ONLY way to go...
Any rumblings on the Aquilinis' plans across the street?
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  #58  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 12:41 AM
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Any rumblings on the Aquilinis' plans across the street?
This is probably one of the projects totalling $100M or so awaiting a formal announcement that the events centre is going ahead.

In many ways, downtown is currently in a prolonged state of limbo. Nothing will get announced or built until we know what is going to happen with the events centre......
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  #59  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 1:16 AM
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As promised, here is today's editorial from the T&T
http://22864.vws.magma.ca/index.php?&article_id=10786

Show us the way on events centre
Tuesday, March 19, 2013
Times& Transcript

We Say: Moncton Events Centre needs and deserves federal help

Downtown Moncton Centre-Ville Inc. President Louis Léger is absolutely right when he says it is time to act on an events centre for the city. We commend Mr. Léger for his latest effort to return to the attention of Monctonians what we believe is this region's most important economic development file for the next 30-plus years.

It's great the symposium will include the developers of London Budweiser Gardens in London, Ont. but this $46 million project, while done without federal help, is simply not in the same league as what is required for Metro Moncton. Here, we are not looking for a modestly sized 'hockey rink' for a city wedged cheek-by-jowl with other southern Ontario cities in the midst of an urban sprawl that stretches from Oshawa all the way to Hamilton and beyond to the U.S. border.

Metro's situation is entirely different. The events centre as envisioned by Monctonians is no mere 'hockey rink' but a sports and entertainment complex intended to draw from an enormous but relatively sparsely-populated catchment area. It is estimated to require $100 million and predicted to spur another $100 million in related development for that role. In short, we need this far more than London.

Indeed Moncton Mayor George LeBlanc has courageously said the municipality might be prepared to proceed with only municipal and provincial contributions but we remain convinced this project needs - and given the federal dollars that have gone to other Maritime cities for various projects - deserves federal help. We fully expect the April 17 symposium will pack the Capitol Theatre and we hope Moncton-Riverview-Dieppe's government Member of Parliament, Robert Goguen, is among the throng.

It has been almost a year since Mr. Goguen last spoke on the events centre when he attended an April 12 unveiling of several preliminary design proposals for the centre. He remarked then that Ottawa is in restraint mode, 'but where there's a will there's a way.' It's time for our government representative, who has said he is at work on the file behind scenes, to 'show us the way.'
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  #60  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 9:36 AM
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Originally Posted by OUIR@random View Post
I don't need to be convinced that the center is a smart investment and that many places in North America is currently in the same situation.
What I am saying is that there is NO money and I don't know where they will find it.
New Brunswick's rich and famous will need to open their wallets somehow; McCains & Irvings, the ONLY way to go...
I don't know from where the money will come either...

The feds are totally out of the question. I don't know in what state the current business priorities of the McCains and Irvings are.
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