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View Poll Results: Which party do you plan to vote for in the 2019 federal election?
Conservative Party 73 25.61%
Liberal Party 119 41.75%
NDP 44 15.44%
Green Party 27 9.47%
Peoples Party of Canada 22 7.72%
Voters: 285. You may not vote on this poll

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  #2041  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Actually I know a place in Quebec (not too far from my neck of the woods, in a town where I have a business partner so I go once in a while) where I often see lawn signs while being in Quebec. It's the only reliable location I know where you can usually get to see lawn signs without leaving the province. (Culturally, lawn signs is not something that exists here. For some reason. Not sure why.)

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.0058...7i13312!8i6656
Seems like they might be confused about which country they're living in.
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  #2042  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
Your last sentence defines a Liberal (a dying breed being killed off by their own). What we have now are leftists, truly evil people who are much closer to Nazis than the people they accuse. They tick all the check boxes: violent protests, try to shut down anyone with a differing opinion, often seen in black. Yup, if it looks like a duck...

The cognitive dissonance is not breathtaking, it's f'n scary. You know it's been asked a hundred times and there still has never been an answer to what if Scheer did the blackface? But we know the answer, only the hypocrites won't come clean.
I wouldn't use such inflammatory language, but as someone who is on the left there are some worrisome things going on that make me shake my head much more often than I'd like these days.

I am still on board with the left/centre-left/progressives when it comes to many things, especially socio-economic matters, but the whole SJW/woke thing getting quasi-religious is really starting to be grating.

I am all for equality and even levelling the playing field for the disadvantaged, but reverse/revenge discrimination and double-standards with justifiable or selective racism/intolerance that I am increasingly hearing and seeing are just too much for me to stomach.
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Last edited by Acajack; Oct 1, 2019 at 12:14 PM.
     
     
  #2043  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I wouldn't use such inflammatory language, but as someone who is on the left there are some worrisome things going on that make me shake my head much more often than I'd like these days.

I am still on board with the left/centre-left/progressives when it comes to socio-economic matters, but the whole SJW/woke thing getting quasi-religious is really starting to be grating.

I am all for equality and even levelling the playing field for the disadvantaged, but reverse/revenge discrimination and double-standards with justifiable or selective racism/intolerance that I am increasingly hearing and seeing are just too much for me to stomach.
There is an authoritarian streak disguised under noble pretenses that is greatly concerning.

The militant users of this 'power' give me pause. Once upon a time, racist and sexist were strong words because their meanings were quite dire. There wasn't much worse for an insult to hurl at a person and it was saved for the most blatant cases.

Now, they're casually thrown around, especially to limit discourse. The worst part is that they start to lose their meaning, or worse, that certain groups become inoculated against them. You end up with people wearing the term as a badge of honour, not a mark of shame. What exactly has one accomplished then?
     
     
  #2044  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I wouldn't use such inflammatory language, but as someone who is on the left there are some worrisome things going on that make me shake my head much more often than I'd like these days.

I am still on board with the left/centre-left/progressives when it comes to many things, especially socio-economic matters, but the whole SJW/woke thing getting quasi-religious is really starting to be grating.

I am all for equality and even levelling the playing field for the disadvantaged, but reverse/revenge discrimination and double-standards with justifiable or selective racism/intolerance that I am increasingly hearing and seeing are just too much for me to stomach.
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Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
There is an authoritarian streak disguised under noble pretenses that is greatly concerning.

The militant users of this 'power' give me pause. Once upon a time, racist and sexist were strong words because their meanings were quite dire. There wasn't much worse for an insult to hurl at a person and it was saved for the most blatant cases.

Now, they're casually thrown around, especially to limit discourse. The worst part is that they start to lose their meaning, or worse, that certain groups become inoculated against them. You end up with people wearing the term as a badge of honour, not a mark of shame. What exactly has one accomplished then?
Glad I’m not the only one on the forum that thinks this way
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  #2045  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 12:25 PM
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I've read that lawn signs in Quebec never really caught on due to people there not wanting to reveal their views publicly. It goes back to the 1960s and 70s when separatist movements became big and people didn't want to create too much division with their neighbours.
I was speaking at a work-related event a couple of years ago to a francophone colleague from Montreal, about 50 years old like me, who told me that his family were Liberals and federalists. He then got really nervous and made me promise not to mention this to any of his Montreal colleagues, saying that no one ever talks politics or reveals their allegiance in the office environment. I was taken aback by his obvious anxiety about this.
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  #2046  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy6 View Post
I was speaking at a work-related event a couple of years ago to a francophone colleague from Montreal, about 50 years old like me, who told me that his family were Liberals and federalists. He then got really nervous and made me promise not to mention this to any of his Montreal colleagues, saying that no one ever talks politics or reveals their allegiance in the office environment. I was taken aback by his obvious anxiety about this.
I am not surprised to hear this.

I'd add a caveat though that it's not generally due to a fear of truly serious reprisals (ie professional, etc.) but rather it's primarily about wanting to continue to feel socially comfortable.
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  #2047  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 12:34 PM
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There is an authoritarian streak disguised under noble pretenses that is greatly concerning.

The militant users of this 'power' give me pause. Once upon a time, racist and sexist were strong words because their meanings were quite dire. There wasn't much worse for an insult to hurl at a person and it was saved for the most blatant cases.

Now, they're casually thrown around, especially to limit discourse. The worst part is that they start to lose their meaning, or worse, that certain groups become inoculated against them. You end up with people wearing the term as a badge of honour, not a mark of shame. What exactly has one accomplished then?
It's like those Hamilton protesters referring to the PPC/Maxime Bernier as "violent". They may be ignoramuses, but violent?

Basically, I've got a suite of inflammatory accusations that I can pull out of my hat and just fling at adversaries whose views I don't like. It doesn't need to be connected to reality in any way.

And worse/better still, is that no one will call me on it. I gather that the reporter who wrote down that quote with the word "violent" in it didn't even ask the protester: "How exactly is the PPC/Bernier violent?"
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  #2048  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 12:38 PM
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Perhaps the worst aspect of this is that, given that political parties and movements tend to be package deals, the stupidity tends to overshadow and handicap the important stuff that these people also claim to be fighting for.

One could even argue that it serves certain powerful interests to have "the people" fighting the pronoun wars while the rich keep getting richer and inequalities continue to grow, and an ever-growing share of the general population is getting priced out of important stuff like home ownership, higher education and, some might even say, parenthood...
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  #2049  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 12:48 PM
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The current climate is one in which the legitimacy of idea-sets is being contested more than the individual ideas themselves. Regarding Bernier, the obvious push is for him and his party to be considered extra-political, or outside the range of views contestable via politics. Without Bernier, I could see a situation in which similar protesters confront CPC candidates.

This isn't strictly a 'left-right' issue, although I am not sure how it would play out from the left in a Canadian context. In the UK, we have seen an utterly spurious campaign to label socialist Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn as a hate-figure due to fears emanating from the City. In the US, democratic socialist Bernie Sanders has seen his campaign marginalized by media despite very respectable polling numbers showing him to be at least among the front-runners.

The ideology of power at the present moment is socially liberal and fiscally capital-friendly. It will be as socially democratic as it needs to be to avoid public unrest or populist figures, but no more so.
     
     
  #2050  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by travis3000 View Post
EKOS actually dropped their new poll today, it states as follows:

Liberals: 33.4%
Conservatives: 31.1%
Greens: 13.1%
NDP: 11.4%
PPC: 5%
--

Ekos has the Conservatives leading BC with 26% followed by the Liberals and NDP at 23% . In Alberta the Conservatives have a 40 point lead over the Liberals, in Saskatchewan the Conservatives lead by 45 points. In Manitoba the Conservatives lead by 5 points over the Liberals.

In vote rich ONTARIO the Liberals are leading by 13 points. The Greens are now in 3rd place in ON. In Quebec the Liberals are ahead by 17 points, the Greens have veered into 2nd in Quebec with 17% followed by the Bloq and Conservatives tied at 14% each.

In Atlantic Canada the Liberals lead by 5 points.
Not sure what's going on with EKOS and the Greens in Quebec. This is the second time you're reporting them placing the Greens second whereas all other polls and poll aggregators have them tied with the NDP around 10%. Both Qc125 and Éric Grenier this morning have the Bloc in 2nd in the low 20s, with the Conservatives just behind around 20%.
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  #2051  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
One could even argue that it serves certain powerful interests to have "the people" fighting the pronoun wars while the rich keep getting richer and inequalities continue to grow, and an ever-growing share of the general population is getting priced out of important stuff like home ownership, higher education and, some might even say, parenthood...
The trick to pickpocketing a couple is quite easy - get them to fight with each other while you walk off with their money. You see it all the time - pit people who have a common interest (e.g spouses) against each other and walk off with their money.

I'm almost convinced that we're seeing this to a large extent to our south - the current President is quite happily needling people via Twitter, he passes the largest corporate tax cut in recent history while running large budgetary deficits. Who is going to pay for that? The future taxpayer, that's who.
     
     
  #2052  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post
The current climate is one in which the legitimacy of idea-sets is being contested more than the individual ideas themselves. Regarding Bernier, the obvious push is for him and his party to be considered extra-political, or outside the range of views contestable via politics. Without Bernier, I could see a situation in which similar protesters confront CPC candidates.
If you are accurate in your assessment, perhaps the best thing to happen to the Conservatives is to have the lightning rod of the PPC to act as a diversion.
     
     
  #2053  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post
The current climate is one in which the legitimacy of idea-sets is being contested more than the individual ideas themselves. Regarding Bernier, the obvious push is for him and his party to be considered extra-political, or outside the range of views contestable via politics. Without Bernier, I could see a situation in which similar protesters confront CPC candidates.

This isn't strictly a 'left-right' issue, although I am not sure how it would play out from the left in a Canadian context. In the UK, we have seen an utterly spurious campaign to label socialist Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn as a hate-figure due to fears emanating from the City. In the US, democratic socialist Bernie Sanders has seen his campaign marginalized by media despite very respectable polling numbers showing him to be at least among the front-runners.

The ideology of power at the present moment is socially liberal and fiscally capital-friendly. It will be as socially democratic as it needs to be to avoid public unrest or populist figures, but no more so.
This is I think the reflection of a new, post-traditionalist generation taking power. They want to be able to live how they want, fuck who they want how and when they want to, seek other forms of stimuli and fun how they want, etc. Hence the socially liberal angle. But they usually need lots of money to do all of that, so the capital fixation is an essential component of the "good life" as well.
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  #2054  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 1:11 PM
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This is I think the reflection of a new, post-traditionalist generation taking power. They want to be able to live how they want, fuck who they want how and when they want to, seek other forms of stimuli and fun how they want, etc. Hence the socially liberal angle. But they usually need lots of money to do all of that, so the capital fixation is an essential component of the "good life" as well.
So, unrestricted hedonism, and the means to achieve this goal too.

Pretty narcissistic..........
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  #2055  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 1:12 PM
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This is I think the reflection of a new, post-traditionalist generation taking power. They want to be able to live how they want, fuck who they want how and when they want to, seek other forms of stimuli and fun how they want, etc. Hence the socially liberal angle. But they usually need lots of money to do all of that, so the capital fixation is an essential component of the "good life" as well.

I'm not so sure about that, as I see no real indication a new generation is truly taking power. In my mind it's still the traditional centres of power - sometimes with new figureheads (JT...) - trying to placate a generation that feels increasingly disenfranchised. Hence the socially liberal angle while obfuscating fiscal goals of protecting the elite. Demonization of those who don't fit the acceptable level of PC, support of the current economic system, as well as so-called SJWs* fit in with this narrative completely. Gotta maintain the Centre.

*I'm not fan of the current strain of ultra political correctness, but the way things are being spun is increasingly devoid from reality. Follow on the ground twitter threads vs what's been reported on and it becomes obvious.
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  #2056  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 1:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Seems like they might be confused about which country they're living in.
? No they're not. These houses and their front lawns are in the USA, even though they're lining Quebec Route 247. And as I mentioned, Americans like lawn signs, therefore that's the only place I know in Quebec where you can from time to time see lawn signs lining the street (on one side) if there's some sort of election (I think they also elect sheriffs, judges, school representatives, etc. There's a good variation in lawn signs)
     
     
  #2057  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 1:43 PM
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? No they're not. These houses and their front lawns are in the USA, even though they're lining Quebec Route 247. And as I mentioned, Americans like lawn signs, therefore that's the only place I know in Quebec where you can from time to time see lawn signs lining the street (on one side) if there's some sort of election (I think they also elect sheriffs, judges, school representatives, etc. There's a good variation in lawn signs)
I notice that Quebec likes signs all over lamp posts and boulevards instead, where frankly, they're kind of meaningless.

     
     
  #2058  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 1:46 PM
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I've been on that street!
You're pretty well traveled then (unlike Acajack!)

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I've read that lawn signs in Quebec never really caught on due to people there not wanting to reveal their views publicly. It goes back to the 1960s and 70s when separatist movements became big and people didn't want to create too much division with their neighbours.
Plausible.

On a semi-related note, something else that Québécois just don't do (that Anglo North Americans do): graduates who do well financially deciding to donate a bunch of money to their alma mater later in life. Francophone universities keep complaining about that...

Again, not too sure exactly why, but that's how it is.
     
     
  #2059  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 1:47 PM
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In a time where we are going after plastic straws, why is no one talking about banning lawn signs? Society would be much better off without them. How can the Green Party promote a single use plastic ban while encouraging mass plastic littering?
     
     
  #2060  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 1:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
One could even argue that it serves certain powerful interests to have "the people" fighting the pronoun wars while the rich keep getting richer and inequalities continue to grow, and an ever-growing share of the general population is getting priced out of important stuff like home ownership, higher education and, some might even say, parenthood...

Guaranteed that that's no coincidence. It's much easier for the powers-that-be to make the political contests of the day about who's a racist and who's not than about anything that would cause them to lose money.



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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Seems like they might be confused about which country they're living in.

Unless I'm turned around, that appears to be on the American side, no?
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