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  #61  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2011, 8:11 AM
cornholio cornholio is offline
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Of course the extreme irony here is that alot of that money is flowing into our city right now because governments in China are taking action to curtail speculation there. All three levels of government here are simply to spineless to do the same.
Yes they are spineless, and it will be the citizens who pay. Its not like you can turn back the clock. Unless something dramatic happens nationalizing foreign owned properties is not a option for numerous reasons. The longer they wait the worse it will be, like I have said it shouldent be hard for people to explain what has happened everywhere else and WILL happen here. And the worst part is it could happen here much quicker for the reasons you mentioned.
     
     
  #62  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2011, 8:11 AM
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Originally Posted by cornholio View Post
Its not jealousy, its sound policy. Also like I have said before I think you are with all due respect probably the last person here to have a unbiased opinion regarding this subject matter.
Really? I've actually dealt with a lot of jealousy issues In fact, I have entire networks of people dedicated to hating me

You're not somebody until people make up stories about you in the public eye lol

I inherited hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, had siblings to care for, worked my way through school, eating if I could, finished at the top of my class, founded several successful projects in a very competitive field, quickly rose to the top of those, and paid more income tax per month than most people will in their entire life. I know a lot more about hard work and sacrifice than some snivelling elitist who thinks everything should be handed to him because he could never force himself to do what I did in my life. And I'm only getting started, while you sit around wondering what can be done *for* you.

With all due respect, I'm actually the only person whose provided any substantive data to back up any "claim" I've made lol
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  #63  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2011, 8:21 AM
cornholio cornholio is offline
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Originally Posted by Yume-sama View Post
lol obviously it is talking about the "average" income of the city. I have no idea what your income is.

If you make $10 you won't buy a place for $4, if you make $10 million you could buy a pretty spiffy place for $4 million.

And you're going to have to take that up with RBC if you don't believe their financial analysis of the last 25 years...

They kind of have billions of dollars relying on their analysis, not just their opinion lol

And FYI they are referring mostly to mortgage carrying costs... the payment would be 40% of the average monthly income.

Not just higher wages, but substantially lower interest rates, have resulted in the actual cost being lower.

Is anyone old enough to remember what double digit interest rates look like~?
I will give you the honor and allow you to explain why this means nothing for the the citizens, and affordability of housing. Yet alone growth of prices versus income.
     
     
  #64  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2011, 8:25 AM
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I'm not sure what you mean, but perhaps you could answer my question about what you would actually do about it.

I want real life solutions that would actually work in reality (and not in idealistic unicorn-land) and not have horrible unintended consequences.

If you had to draft a policy for the government on this issue, exactly what would the main points be?
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  #65  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2011, 8:26 AM
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We should be friends, I'm a nice guy I wouldn't even argue about letting you pick up the tab at the restaurant.

I have no problem with people bringing their money into Canada. What I find interesting is that people certain members think of as lesser educated, from a country with vast poverty and unheard of low wages are able to come to Canada and purchase properties that our so called higher educated higher earners can't afford. Seems to me that the problem is a lot closer to home, it's just easier to point fingers and blame someone else.

I'm certainly not a high earner and I've done very well for myself. Just made the right choices in life. The more difficult choices a lot of the time.
     
     
  #66  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2011, 8:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Yume-sama View Post
Really? I've actually dealt with a lot of jealousy issues In fact, I have entire networks of people dedicated to hating me

You're not somebody until people make up stories about you in the public eye lol

I inherited hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, had siblings to care for, worked my way through school, eating if I could, finished at the top of my class, founded several successful projects in a very competitive field, quickly rose to the top of those, and paid more income tax per month than most people will in their entire life. I know a lot more about hard work and sacrifice than some snivelling elitist who thinks everything should be handed to him because he could never force himself to do what I did in my life. And I'm only getting started, while you sit around wondering what can be done *for* you.

With all due respect, I'm actually the only person whose provided any substantive data to back up any "claim" I've made lol
Well I dont want to get personal but you have to have a "loaded" family with some nice connections to inherit hundreds of thousand of dollars in debt.
     
     
  #67  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2011, 8:33 AM
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For a time. For long enough to establish a credit rating high enough to get access to that money. Interest rates weren't so friendly back then, either lol

Nowadays I can borrow for just over 3%~

In the most horrible of ironies, the root of the financial problems was an inheritance that was badly mis-managed.

Maybe they should be banned
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  #68  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2011, 8:41 AM
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So what do you *realistically* suggest be done? You complain a lot but are short on actual real life solutions.
People who are non residents simply not being able to buy or invest in property unless its luxury property(say 3mill+ as a example). Foreign corporations can buy and invest in to property but not for speculative reasons, any person caught trying to by pass these policies would have the properties seized, be give a large fine(which probably would be hard to collect) and flagged, charged or deported(these policies can be tweaked to strike a good balance).

Thats for starters.

Regarding immigration there needs to be a balance set, the number of people coming in as investors and then the families they sponsor in needs to be controlled. I would peg it to the number of skill immigrants, economic immigrants and refugees being admitted.
     
     
  #69  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2011, 8:41 AM
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Originally Posted by jlousa View Post
We should be friends, I'm a nice guy I wouldn't even argue about letting you pick up the tab at the restaurant.

I have no problem with people bringing their money into Canada. What I find interesting is that people certain members think of as lesser educated, from a country with vast poverty and unheard of low wages are able to come to Canada and purchase properties that our so called higher educated higher earners can't afford. Seems to me that the problem is a lot closer to home, it's just easier to point fingers and blame someone else.

I'm certainly not a high earner and I've done very well for myself. Just made the right choices in life. The more difficult choices a lot of the time.
Are you saying that these people are pooling their money for an investment?
     
     
  #70  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2011, 8:43 AM
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Even communist China doesn't have those policies anymore

I am all for controlling immigration, though. But probably the opposite end of the scale you're interested in...
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  #71  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2011, 8:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Yume-sama View Post
People find ways around the inheritance tax. There are people with safety deposit boxes stuffed full with hundreds of thousands of dollars, and it's easy enough to transfer properties.



Imagine that~ lol I'm sure he'd do everything he could to avoid taxes, too.

Anyone with real wealth is smart enough not to keep it around here in the open, anyways.
Yes you cant stop cheating, that is a part of life and a important contributing factor to progress. But like all things you can still make enough of a difference until you reach the point when it becomes uneconomical to "catch" them all. After which you try to find a way to make it economical.

Also your quote regrading Buffet sparked a bit of curiosity in me, thanks. I will have to look in to that as that goes against what he has always stood for.
     
     
  #72  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2011, 8:57 AM
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Buffett is against profiteering and trying to maximize his personal wealth while funding both sides of a corporate "war"? lol

Since when

He's also known for buying companies, homes, and farms, with his holding company for a low price when they are forced to sell due to the death tax he promotes. Which he then flips for more.

It's slightly humorous that *you* hold one of the richest and most successful mega-capitalist men in the World up like that lol

Hopefully you don't also think Michael Moore is really anti-capitalist as he sues the Weinstein Bros for millions he feels he's owed from his films.
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Last edited by Yume-sama; Feb 28, 2011 at 9:09 AM.
     
     
  #73  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2011, 9:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jlousa View Post
We should be friends, I'm a nice guy I wouldn't even argue about letting you pick up the tab at the restaurant.

I have no problem with people bringing their money into Canada. What I find interesting is that people certain members think of as lesser educated, from a country with vast poverty and unheard of low wages are able to come to Canada and purchase properties that our so called higher educated higher earners can't afford. Seems to me that the problem is a lot closer to home, it's just easier to point fingers and blame someone else.

I'm certainly not a high earner and I've done very well for myself. Just made the right choices in life. The more difficult choices a lot of the time.
You are using your stereotypes. But the countries with vast poverty and low wages tend to produce some very rich people, and since many of these places have high economic growth rates they produce rich people quickly. Now im not saying all are rich, they arent. But many if not most are decently wealthy(trust me I know) and some are rather rich when they come here. There are now very few immigrants coming to Canada that are poor, most are upper middle class or higher(and the middle classes in these countries tend to be small and top heavy).

Having said that my family defenitly had nothing as we were political refugees and yet all except me own properties(I dont want to). So with some luck and hard work anything is possible but the question is how much hard work should be required.
     
     
  #74  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2011, 9:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Yume-sama View Post
Buffett is against profiteering and trying to maximize his personal wealth while funding both sides of a corporate "war"? lol

Since when

He's also known for buying companies, homes, and farms, with his holding company for a low price when they are forced to sell due to the death tax he promotes. Which he then flips for more.

It's slightly humorous that *you* hold one of the richest and most successful mega-capitalist men in the World up like that lol

Hopefully you don't also think Michael Moore is really anti-capitalist as he sues the Weinstein Bros for millions he feels he's owed from his films.
Hey the world is a complicated place. What I find most interesting about Buffet is his ability to see the world like almost no one else can.

He is a capitalist, and a good one, and a inheritance tax allows money to be put back in to play so people can "earn" it again. I think it is a good concept and would really have nothing to do with his business life.

Regarding Moore, he is a entertainer imo. He brings up good topics but dumbs them down.
     
     
  #75  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2011, 12:10 PM
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Question What is the Australian model for this


As I said; this is a real toughie. Perhaps go to google and look at the methods being used in AUSTRALIA. They have a similar issue happening, but seem to be dealing with it much more efficaciously, and in a more refined and diplomatic way, than we (Canadians) are.
     
     
  #76  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2011, 3:16 PM
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Pretty sure our politicians are more then aware of the policies in Australia, and elsewhere. I would venture that most of them don't think what some see as a problem in Vancouver and a few other urban centres as a cause for national concern.
Interesting how no one argues against the freedom of movement within our country for our citizens, but not for allowing people to do the same globally.
     
     
  #77  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2011, 4:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jlousa View Post
We should be friends, I'm a nice guy I wouldn't even argue about letting you pick up the tab at the restaurant.

I have no problem with people bringing their money into Canada. What I find interesting is that people certain members think of as lesser educated, from a country with vast poverty and unheard of low wages are able to come to Canada and purchase properties that our so called higher educated higher earners can't afford. Seems to me that the problem is a lot closer to home, it's just easier to point fingers and blame someone else.

I'm certainly not a high earner and I've done very well for myself. Just made the right choices in life. The more difficult choices a lot of the time.
Like any country with extreme poverty, China also has the opposite, the extremely wealthy, who accumulate wealth on the backs of the poor. Your hypothesis also ignores the fact that environmental regulations in Canada make it harder to amass a fortune through runaway environmental degradation.

I find it frustrating that some continue to dismiss this issue. Ask yourself, how is a Filipina who comes over here to work as a caregiver, scrimps and saves to bring her family over, supposed to compete with some well-heeled astronaut who jets over here to pick up a few properties? Yet, whose skills are more needed by Canadians? Some will give the glib answer that the Filipino family can buy in Pitt Meadows, but what if most of those jobs are on the West Side? There goes the Liveable Region Strategy that some are so enamoured with.

And on the topic of environment, check out the hideous monster homes going up in Richmond. Virtually no green space, and its not being done in the name of density. Its being done in the name of double-height living rooms, 3 car garages and people who don't want the burden of caring for yard when they spend so little time here.
     
     
  #78  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2011, 4:51 PM
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something else to consider is the population growth of the lower mainland, over the last 3 years, ~150k people have moved into the valley, between 2001 and 2006, 35k per year was added to just vancouver cma, not including abbotsford and chilliwack.

there is not one simple reason for the continual rise in housing prices in this city. if any of the following trends continue, there will be no major price correction, maybe a leveling off

1. population increase
2. foreign investors
3. agriculture land reserve remains as is
4. vancouvers continual high ranking in livability serveys
5. undersupply of new housing

if someone could buy into the vancouver market, they should,
     
     
  #79  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2011, 4:52 PM
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I know exactly where this is going to end because I have seen it in Czech republic, and it has hapend in ever other country out there.

Quote:

Chinese investment surge hits Metro Vancouver housing market

Stable Canadian economy and good quality of life is luring 'planeloads' of overseas buyers eager to invest


By Brian Morton, Vancouver Sun February 28, 2011 5:29 AM

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/business...#ixzz1FGvul4tv


When real estate entrepreneur Cam Good hosted a group of predominantly mainland Chinese investors this Wednesday at a White Rock condo showing, he was tapping into a market that's surging across much of Metro Vancouver.

Good, president of The Key, a Vancouver-based sales and marketing firm that's focusing on a new wave of Chinese buyers, figures he's sold more than 500 homes to mainland Chinese investors and immigrants in January and February in Vancouver and Toronto.

He's also opened an office in Beijing's business district -The Key China -where Chinese buyers can purchase Canadian condos from a presentation centre and view videos that showcase various condo developments and the virtues of Canada.

"[Chinese investors] have really picked up a lot of steam in the last two or three months," Good said in an interview. "And I believe this is just the tip of the iceberg. There's an über-wealthy upper class forming and there's a strong middle class growing in China. This massive middle class is now getting to a point where they can afford international real estate. And Canada is viewed by the Chinese as a very stable place to put their money.

"There are literally planeloads of Chinese coming here to buy real estate."

Wednesday's attraction was Avra, a 17-storey condominium tower that's slated to be built over the next two years, and Good took along a busload of investors -some from China and some already living here -and their agents to view the plans.

But it's not just condos that are attracting Chinese buyers, with single-family homes and large lots topping the list.

Across the Lower Mainland, especially Richmond and Vancouver's west side, mainland Chinese buyers and immigrants are becoming a major part of the market, in some cases competing with each other through multiple offers.

But the phenomenon is starting to spread to other areas including Burnaby, West Vancouver, White Rock and beyond.

"We predict that this will be a dominant trend for a long time," Scott Brown, senior vicepresident, Western Canada for Colliers International residential marketing, said in an interview. "Some of the most expensive [Vancouver] real estate is only being marketed to Chinese buyers. And Vancouver and Toronto are very popular."

According to a report on new multi-family home sales in the Lower Mainland by Colliers, which recently opened a dedicated office in Shanghai to deal with the increasing demand, a total of 2,711 new multi-family units were sold in the region in the fourth quarter of 2010, making it the most active quarter of the past year.

"As in each quarter in 2010, the health of the market is expected to continue to be positively impacted by increasing Asian immigrant and investment demand," the report, prepared by Colliers and Urban Analytics, concluded.

Scott said the expected offshore demand will continue to be "the dominant story in 2011 that it was in every quarter of 2010 especially in Vancouver-west, Metrotown and Richmond."

The demand for Vancouver properties appears to be fuelled by many factors -including, ironically, a crackdown on property purchases in mainland China that may be moving much of that investment overseas, particularly to Canada.

Local real estate companies are tapping into the demand, which realtors say is also partly fuelled by an easing of travel restrictions by China with the granting of approved destination status to Canada.

As well, local Vancouver area Chinese-language newspapers are being used by realtors and agents to specifically target mainland Chinese buyers, citing Canada and Vancouver's stability and strong local real estate returns.

A recent report in the China Daily, a state-run publication based in Beijing, said Canada was "the most popular choice" for overseas investors while "growing restrictions on property purchases in major Chinese cities [are driving] the country's nouveau riche to look overseas for investment opportunities."

The newspaper noted that most overseas property purchases are motivated by a combination of factors including immigration, education and investment, with Canada, Australia and the U.K. topping the list of destinations.

The China Daily report also said buyers from the Chinese mainland represent between 40 and 50 per cent of the current market for pre-sale projects in Vancouver.

But China's effort to cool an overheating market is just one reason investment is pouring into Canada.

Brown believes there are many factors, especially Canada's image as a great country to live in and a safe place to invest money. "There's no one easy answer, but one of the main drivers is [they] believe that having their children educated in Canada [is good]. The other driver is that Vancouver is a beautiful, livable city and they want to buy their own piece of it."

One recent buyer is former Beijing resident Yang Yang, who moved to B.C. with her husband and young daughter last summer, purchased a detached house in Surrey, and accompanied Good to the White Rock condo showing.

"We prefer the peaceful life here," Yang said in an interview. "Beijing is very crowded and the air pollution is bad there."

Yang said that she and her husband, an IT engineer, are considering a condo at Avra as a place to retire when they no longer need their larger home.

Yang's realtor, Hong Lui, with Interlink Realty in Richmond, said she first noticed a surge in mainland Chinese interest last spring and it's grown increasingly stronger, with a mix of investors, including those who want to immigrate to Canada and others who are looking here after the Chinese government restricted their ability to own several homes.

Richmond MacDonald Realty realtor David Lindsay said: "January and February has been almost exclusively mainland Chinese buyers of big lots, with a house of little value on it. And we're getting multiple offers."

He said, for example, that a typical lot in the Seafair area, which sold for $800,000 in October, is now selling in the $1.2-million range. "I sold one last Sunday and we had four offers. The winning bid was $1.03 million. It was on the market for $968,000." Lindsay believes there's speculation is going on, because some buyers are getting an accepted contract with a clause that allows them to assign the contract to a third party before the sale is completed. "One buyer didn't even set foot on the property."

Real Estate Board of Greater Vancouver president Jake Moldowan said he believes lifestyle is the core reason for the interest. "Vancouver is an extremely desirable place to be."

He said that Richmond lots are now going for $1 million to $1.3 million. "And I know that there have been realtors from Hong Kong and mainland China, who fly over there, put packages together, and then bring people over."

Meanwhile, Bosa Properties announced this week that its 34-storey Sovereign tower in Burnaby's Metrotown sold out immediately, surpassing the single day sales record in the Burnaby market by selling $98-million worth of real estate.

bmorton@vancouversun.com
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/business...#ixzz1FGumuxiu
Careful what you wish for Jlousa.
     
     
  #80  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2011, 5:15 PM
trofirhen trofirhen is offline
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Originally Posted by WBC View Post
Why is anybody with lots of cash "investing" money in real estate in the city that has had an unprecedented run up in real estate prices is beyond me. That is the equivalent to investing into already expensive stock that had just had 300% price increase.

I think there may be two main reasons for that:

1: The Chinese know that there is a large, wealthy, and influential Chinese population already established here and are comfortable with Vancouver as a landing pad.

2: They are savvy investors, have taken stock of the city, know that it is geographically constricted with constant in-migration, all of which will keep house prices (i.e. their investments) high; rather like buying blue-chip stocks.
     
     
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