Minneapolis considers allowing fourplexes citywide to relieve housing shortage

[Chef]

This may end up being the way forward for a lot of cities that still have large tracts of single family houses.

Minneapolis leaders consider allowing fourplexes citywide to relieve housing shortage
The plan could transform vast swaths of the city now limited to single-family homes.
By Adam Belz Star Tribune MARCH 7, 2018 — 10:18PM

To relieve a worsening shortage of housing, Minneapolis planners have suggested allowing the construction of four-unit apartment buildings in virtually any neighborhood.

City Council members have been briefed on the plan, which could transform vast swaths of the city now limited to single-family homes.

Increasing residential density to accommodate a growing population and drive down the cost of housing in Minneapolis was a campaign priority for Mayor Jacob Frey and Council President Lisa Bender. The proposal to lift zoning restrictions in single-family neighborhoods is one part of a draft comprehensive plan, which the city will release later this month. The plan won’t be approved until December.

On Tuesday, Bender and Frey said the comprehensive plan has been years in the works and will be subject to extensive public comment. They declined to speak directly to the proposal to rewrite zoning rules to allow fourplexes on property across the city.

“You can’t create more housing options if you don’t allow for them,” Frey said. “Now’s the time to have the conversation. Not to make a decision, but to have the conversation.”

http://www.startribune.com/minneapol...ide/476192693/

[ardecila]

Smart move. I hope it gets passed, and not with some kind of caveat that only allows fourplexes on extra large lots.

Hopefully this is paired with a reduction of parking requirements. Minneapolis is an alley city and most homes have garages or parking pads in back, so it’s not like single-family neighborhoods have a shortage of street parking...

[C.]

Excellent proposal - more cities should pursue this. It's these small scale developments under 5 units that can make a real impact to the affordable housing supply.

[10023]

What’s a fourplex?

Why don’t cities just build rowhouses and terraced housing anymore?

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by CIA

It's these small scale developments under 5 units that can make a real impact to the affordable housing supply.

for real.

chicago's ridiculous abundance of legacy "flats" (or "plexes" in other cities) is the main reason we we're able to afford a nice family-sized home in a fantastic urban neighborhood where the smattering of SFH's in the area were all WELL out of our price range.

they can also be serious density multipliers. our 3 flat, which sits on a typical 25' x 150' chicago lot, is home to 10 people. if it had a SFH sitting on it, it might be home to 3 people, on average. that's how you take a city neighborhood from 10,000 ppsm to 25,000ppsm.

smart move, minneapolis.

[niwell]

Awesome move - this is something that is sorely needed in Toronto, particularly in the immediate inner suburbs. Most of the "houses" in the inner-city already have 2-3 units but there's only a limited supply of these desirable areas.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Chef

This may end up being the way forward for a lot of cities that still have large tracts of single family houses.

Based on the title I thought Minneapolis specifically outlawed fourplexes which would have been ABSURD

I could imagine some wealthier neighborhoods having an issue with this, but generally I think cities should loosen up with what neighborhoods allow, why should the city be mad if I build an apartment in my basement or above my garage?

I've thought a lot about letting local communities determine what kind of developments they want in their neighborhoods. Instead of the city planning department flying in and decreeing it to the people that live there.

Phoenix has 15 "village" planning committees (of course the city is massive in pop and square mileage) it allows the local citizens to decide what they want in their "village" its sort of like student council though, as the city still retains the purse strings and some things you cant change, but I would like to see something more along those lines especially for large cities. Let the people that live in that neighborhood direct where it goes.

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Phoenix has 15 "village" planning committees (of course the city is massive in pop and square mileage) it allows the local citizens to decide what they want in their "village" its sort of like student council though, as the city still retains the purse strings and some things you cant change, but I would like to see something more along those lines especially for large cities. Let the people that live in that neighborhood direct where it goes.

Sounds like a recipe for complete NIMBY control. People in general are afraid of change and don't know anything about urban planning.

[mhays]

Great idea Minneapolis people. I wish my city would do this on a broad scale.

Without reading anything, this sounds like what we (Seattle) are doing on the fringes of our urban village areas...a bungalow will often be replaced by two in the front, two in the back, or any of a million variations, often two or three instead of four. But we restrict this to such small areas that land costs are through the roof and total numbers aren't huge.

It addresses the missing middle, density, and affordability.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

Sounds like a recipe for complete NIMBY control. People in general are afraid of change and don't know anything about urban planning.

God forbid the plebs control their own neighborhoods right!

Im not talking about the downtown core of a city Im talking about essentially suburban neighborhoods miles from the downtown.



The northern villages are practically rural (the blank area is literally open desert) and they are and between north and south you are talking nearly 50 miles or more sometimes LITERAL mountain ranges Why should someone in an outlying area have a say in what Central City does in its neighborhood? why should central city residents demand higher density in borderline rural villages?

I find your stance quite authoritarian. A problem I could never reconcile among urban planners and architects, as time goes on I'm glad I didn't end up making a career in those fields as I had originally planned because of these attitudes.

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by Obadno

God forbid the plebs control their own neighborhoods right!

Im not talking about the downtown core of a city Im talking about essentially suburban neighborhoods miles from the downtown.



The northern villages are practically rural (the blank area is literally open desert) and they are and between north and south you are talking nearly 50 miles or more sometimes LITERAL mountain ranges Why should someone in an outlying area have a say in what Central City does in its neighborhood? why should central city residents demand higher density in borderline rural villages?

I find your stance quite authoritarian. A problem I could never reconcile among urban planners and architects, as time goes on I'm glad I didn't end up making a career in those fields as I had originally planned because of these attitudes.

To be fair, Minneapolis is 1/10 the area of Phoenix and doesn't have the open desert etc. Different beast.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by 10023

What’s a fourplex?

Why don’t cities just build rowhouses and terraced housing anymore?

haha really? four units, usually stacked 2X2....vastly common in the midwest, although often they are actually 8 units.

many us cities really never built rows. fourplexes on the other hand are a common, indigenous style of housing to the midwest. some cities just don't have the correct lot proportions to lay down rowhouses, i think it gets pretty messy when you have to subdivide and create like a condo association, etc.

old 4 plex in suburban st. louis:

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6364...X5RxT2U_tA!2e0

heres a brand new 6 plex in suburban st. louis:

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6354...BGaIhg42_Q!2e0

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by 10023

What’s a fourplex?

Why don’t cities just build rowhouses and terraced housing anymore?

I'm guessing the typical layout will be two semi-attached two-story structures, with one apartment on each floor. Or putting a two-flat in the front of a property, and another two-flat in the rear. Four-story buildings would probably be above height minimums in most areas.

Rowhouses are great if you want high levels of home-ownership at a reasonably high density levels, but they make for crappy rental housing IMHO, because property maintenance (shoveling walks, keeping greenery tidy, etc) is often left up to the tenant when they have their own private outdoor area, no matter how small. A lot of renters just plain don't want to be bothered with outdoor space.

Not to mention that although Minneapolis has a few stands of rowhouses, they'd stick out like sore thumbs in the local vernacular, due to buildings mostly being set back from the street and from their neighbors. A small multi-unit, however, can have massing which is pretty much identical to the single-family homes surrounding it.

[Centropolis]

do a lot of people really not know what 4-plexes are?

[Centropolis]

in st. louis, people think we have too many 2-flats and 4 plexes, often they are now getting renovated and converted to 1 or 2 units...i wish we had minneapolis's problem.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

do a lot of people really not know what 4-plexes are?

as i'm understanding it, it's like a chicago 6-flat with the top floor removed.

i've never heard the term "4-plex" or any term with "plex" in it in chicago, with the exception of "duplex", which is two side by side SFH's that share a party wall, and they're pretty damn rare in the city.

small scale mulit-family in chicago is almost always described as a "flat", ie. 2-flat, 3-flat, or 6-flat. oddly enough, and for whatever reason, 4-flats (two side-by-side 2-flats) are not common at all. they almost always did those as 3 story buildings to make them 6-flats.

the term "duplex" is also used in the chicago real estate market to describe a two floor residential unit within multi-family building, as in the case of our home which consists of the 1st floor and basement of 3-flat. that arranagement is referred to as a "duplex down". if you have the top floor and mezzanine/attic of a new construction 3-flat, that's called a "duplex up".

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

as i'm understanding it, it's like a chicago 6-flat with the top floor removed.

yes. we use "plex" to denote side-by-side units that are sometimes then stacked...duplex, 4-plex, 6-plex...flats are used only if they are stacked single-wide here, like 2-flat, 3-flat. i think that's common in the non-chicago midwest.

4 plexes are great, though, because they often have front and back porches or balconies, especially the ones in kc, and allow the breeze to flow all the way through the house. in st. louis they are often a bit more "formal" or austere, depending on the neighborhood. regular walk-up apartrments don't usually have this...maybe they are more common in hotter midwestern climates. kc has probably the best adjusted vernacular to hot summers in the midwest.

[Centropolis]

kcbungalow.com

in kc 4-plexes, or indeed any sized apartment buildings with these kinds of balconies are often just called "colonnades." minneapolis might have its own colloquial terms for different kinds of apartments/condos so is shouldn't speak for the entire non-chicago midwest.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i've never heard the term "4-plex" or any term with "plex" in it in chicago, with the exception of "duplex", which is two side by side SFH's that share a party wall, and they're pretty damn rare in the city.

Provided they are on separate lots, that would be considered a semi-detached house here. As from an ownership perspective it's essentially just two houses that are built right to the lot line (usually built concurrently, of course). Most of our central semi-detached houses each contain multiple units, confusing things further! I live on the main floor of a semi with 3 units - basement, main floor and 2nd/3rd floor.

A duplex, triplex, x-plex would be self contained units that have their own separate entrances (usually external) within a single building on one lot. The same as a 2/3/6-flat in Chicago, essentially.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by niwell

Provided they are on separate lots, that would be considered a semi-detached house here. As from an ownership perspective it's essentially just two houses that are built right to the lot line (usually built concurrently, of course). Most of our central semi-detached houses each contain multiple units, confusing things further! I live on the main floor of a semi with 3 units - basement, main floor and 2nd/3rd floor.

A duplex, triplex, x-plex would be self contained units that have their own separate entrances (usually external) within a single building on one lot. The same as a 2/3/6-flat in Chicago, essentially.

i wasn't really aware of this until recently, but my understanding is that toronto was late to the apartment building game for some reason? i came upon this article discussing the "first" apartment building in toronto...which would be an impossible task to figure out in the u.s.

https://www.blogto.com/city/2014/01/...ment_building/