Can't get no satisfaction

[Metro-One]

I have been on this forum for many years and started lurking on it around 2005. Everyone in the Vancouver (BC) section have always been wishing for more / taller towers, more highways, more public transit, etc...

Looking back ten years ago a lot has changed in a decade.

Buildings.

Back in 2005 Vancouver / Metro Vancouver had only 1 tower completed over 150 meters (One Wall). The second tallest was Shaw. I believe at that time the Shangri-La was starting construction and Hotel Georgia was a somewhat serious proposal.

Ballpark total active towers over 150 meters = 3.

Today, 10 years later, there are 4 completed towers over 150 meters, 6 under construction, and 9 serious proposals.

Total active towers over 150 meters = 19.

If all proposals come true, Metro-Vancouver`s 13 tallest towers will have been constructed after 2005. (18 tallest if you don`t count One Wall by its spire height).

Mass Transit

Since 2005 we have added the Canada Line (19 km, 16 stations)

The Evergreen Line will open next year (11 km, 6 stations)

I am also a little tempted to add the new highway 1 rapid bus system on this list too, seeing how bus only ramps were built.

Total: 30 km, 22 stations of new grade separated metro

Highways

This one is more tricky to calculate / know where to draw the regional line.

Since 2005, off thetop of my head, we have added the Golden Ears Bridge and Golden Ears Way, including the longest elevated stretch of roadway in BC / western Canada.

The new 7 lane Pitt River bridge and interchange

The entire Port Mann / #1 gateway project including the worlds widest bridge (for a short time) and western Canadas largest / most impressive interchange, the Cape Horn. IMO this was a great project and the #1 for its 35 km length through Metro-Van is now a good quality modern highway for an urban area of our size.

A few other select interchanges have been added / improved upon along the 99 and 91.

The entire SFPR has been built (a good highway IMO, save for the traffic lights...)

And now there are serious plans to improve the #1 north of the Iron Workers and of course, the GMT replacement.

The Point

The narrative on this thread is exactly the same today as it was 10 years ago.
Despite how many taller towers have been built / proposed, highways upgraded, bridges replaced, train lines constructed, etc... it seems that everyone feels exactly the same as they did in 2005.

This thread is not meant to argue weather or not these complaints for more towers, highways, trains, etc... are valid or not (Vancouver is a growing area that has been playing infrastructure catch up, so of course there will always be a desire for me) but seriously, sometimes people need to reflect on how much things have improved, and how much better things are today on all fronts of infrastructure in our area.

Looking 10 years ahead into the future, the question is, what will it take to satisfy your tower / highway / rapid transit hunger when 2025 arrives?

I will go first:

Somewhat satisfied:

All the proposed towers are built, our metro region has between 20 to 25 completed / uc towers over 150 meters. The tallest still being Shangri-La

The M-Line is extended along Broadway for its first phase to Alma. Surrey completes its first LRT line. Several new rapid buses, including one to White Rock via the 99 and one to the ferries via 99 / 17.

The 99 highway is upgraded and a new GM bridge is built. A new Patullo is also built and the 91 / 72nd intersection is finally replaced with an interchange.

Satisfied

For towers, same count (20 to 25) but a new tallest is built around 210 meters or so downtown. A 200m plus tower has also been built in one of the suburban nodes

The M-Line is extended all the way to UBC. The E-Line is extended to Langley (skytrain, no LRT). Canada Line has all stations expanded to their full 50 meters. Canada Line adds middle C-cars. Rapid buses, same as stated above (White Rock and ferry service via 99 and 17).

For highways, same as stated above. The SFPR has all intersections upgraded to interchanges.

Super Satisfied (more fantasy)

For towers, 30 or more over 150 meters are built / UC. 2 towers over 200 meters downtown (tallest around 215) and 2 towers over 200 meters in the burbs, including an office tower in Metrotown (yes, fantasy I know).

Transit, largely the same. Hastings loop line is extended from Waterfront and terminates at Metrotown. LRT built on the North Shore. Commuter rail lines are built and electrified connecting Abbotsford and Chilliwack to Metro-Vancouver.

Highways, Lions Gate is closed, new 6 lane first narrows is built with cut and cover 4 lane Knight Street tolled expressway (Aisan style). GEW is fully upgraded to free flow highway standard (connecting its freeflow with the freeflow upgraded SFPR). Mary Hill bypass upgraded with interchanges.

Okay, thats all from me! What will satisfy you? (Or will you always complain? hehe).

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

The narrative on this thread is exactly the same today as it was 10 years ago. Despite how many taller towers have been built / proposed, highways upgraded, bridges replaced, train lines constructed, etc... it seems that everyone feels exactly the same as they did in 2005.

I say it's all very impressive and dandy, but I suppose many people feel this way because the rest of the world has not been standing still either and what was impressive amount back in 2005 is not that impressive in 2015 anymore. Look at what has been going on in other Canadian cities, not to mention other countries. Cities are growing up very quickly and we have to keep as well just to keep up with the competition.

But I have to say that at least in my opinion our cityscape is A LOT better than it likely was 10 years ago. I have only been here for 4 years to witness it myself, but to me the city is improving. And I am only talking about the cityscape and not about the phenomenons like foreign ownership and price of living which on the contrary are not great trends. But those are also global trends and we are not the only city suffering from those.

I am at least excited about what Vancouver will be like in 2025 if the current boom just holds.

[Prometheus]

No healthy, modern city should ever be "satisfied" with itself. A healthy, modern city should be in a constant state of renewal, growth and advancement. It should never be without vision or foward momentum. Before one advancement is complete, it should be dreaming-up and executing evermore ambitious achievements. This is what makes living in a healthy, modern city so thrilling.

A "satisfied" city is a complacent city, a city without ambition, a stagnant city, which is the first stage of decay.

So, as an advocate of Vancouver's infinite potential for greatness, I will never be "satisfied." I will always hope for greater and greater visions and goals for the city without end.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I say it's all very impressive and dandy, but I suppose many people feel this way because the rest of the world has not been standing still either and what was impressive amount back in 2005 is not that impressive in 2015 anymore. Look at what has been going on in other Canadian cities, not to mention other countries. Cities are growing up very quickly and we have to keep as well just to keep up with the competition.

But I have to say that at least in my opinion our cityscape is A LOT better than it likely was 10 years ago. I have only been here for 4 years to witness it myself, but to me the city is improving. And I am only talking about the cityscape and not about the phenomenons like foreign ownership and price of living which on the contrary are not great trends. But those are also global trends and we are not the only city suffering from those.

I am at least excited about what Vancouver will be like in 2025 if the current boom just holds.

All good points, but just as many places have also largely stayed still over the last 10 years (or in extreme cases even contracted a little), especially in a global view.

Toronto is more of the exception than the rule over the last ten years, especially when it comes to towers in a western country.

But, the point of this thread is not so much to argue what satisfaction itself is, but to see what would satisfy you within the next ten years for growth in cityscape (towers), highways, and mass transit?

Also, I feel bad for people who say they can never be satisfied. I feel such thinking is sad and confusses satisfaction with content. One can indeed be satisfied but still wish for more growth / something better at the same time. (for me content is more the feeling where everything is fine and you wish for no change). If you are never satisfied, then how can you have pride in your city?

If this is true, then I guess we will forever hear about how short Vancouvers skyline is no matter how tall the towers become, how bad the highways are no matter how many we build, and how small the transit system is no matter how many lines were add. Seems like a depressing state on this forum...

Again, the focus is more on what over the next ten years will satisfy you? And feel free to put it into levels of satisfaction as I did.

What will it take for you to stop saying the skyline is too short, the highways are too bad, and the transit system too small?

There, thats the new question to answer please.

[urbancanadian]

Okay, I'll take a stab at it. But please comment because I spent a good hour on this, and this is what I came up with, off the top of my head:

TOWERS:
This is so difficult to guess. But I'll try my best to guess where we'll be in terms of 150m towers region-wide.

Complete -- 4
Under Construction -- 6 -- Trump, Vancouver House, Brentwood ONE/TWO, Altus, 3 Civic Plaza
Approved/Proposed/Likely to go ahead. -- 7 -- One Burrard, 1133 Melville, Brentwood THREE, NW Waterfront Tower 2, FBC Tower, Nelson on the Park, 1500 West Georgia
Upcoming -- 8 -- 1070-1080 Barclay, 1060 Barclay, 740 Nicola (Wall), 1445 West Georgia (James Cheng), Tower opposite Vancouver House, Brentwood FOUR, Gilmore Centre (2)

So I would say 25 towers over 150m is fairly likely. There will probably be a couple more proposals that I forgot/don't know about. Maybe on the south side of Alberni, at Burrard? Maybe a couple of the Lougheed Mall towers? Sears Metrotown property? Etc, etc...

RAPID TRANSIT:
- Millenium Line extended to Arbutus. (6 stations)
- Expo Line extended to Langley Centre. (6-8 stations)
- Phase 1 of Surrey LRT is built (Guildford-Surrey Central-Newton).
- World-class Waterfront Station HUB is built, or at least under construction.
- SFU Gondola is built.
- Capstan Way, YVR 4, and Pearson-57th stations complete.
- Major Expo Line renovations complete at Joyce-Collingwood, Edmonds, Columbia, and Surrey Central.
- New Park Place entrance to Burrard Station.
- Platform extension at Stadium-Chinatown Station.
- All or most of the mayor's council B-line routes are implemented.

ROADWAYS:
- George Massey Tunnel is replaced. Highway 99 improvements (or at least Phase 1, if it's broken up) are complete, mirroring Highway 1 in design quality, including:

• All ageing overpasses are replaced (like Hwy 1). This would mean only a dozen or so overpasses would be at risk during an earthquake, region-wide.
• All interchanges are rebuilt to modern standards. HOV-only ramps built at or in the vicinity of Steveston Hwy, Highway 17a, and King George Blvd.
• I'd also really like to see bus-only ramps at Van Horne Way, but that could only really happen when the Oak Street Bridge is rebuilt.

- Patullo Bridge rebuilt along with associated improvements.
- Highway 1 improvements north of IMB.
- Highway 1 6-laning out to Abbotsford, with associated improvements.
- SFPR is fully grade-separated. If it can't all be done, then at least at Tilbury, Sunbury, and Old Yale Road.

- 192 Street interchange rebuilt.
- Templeton Street interchange is built, along with associated improvements.
- Anniedale interchange is built.
- 72 Avenue interchange is built.
- Shaughnessy Street interchange is built, along with perhaps one more Mary Hill Bypass interchange.

- Malkin Connector completed, with new FTN bus service along it (or Terminal) and 1st avenue, to Brentwood.
- Lincoln Avenue connector complete, with new FTN bus service to Lincoln Station.
- United Boulevard extension complete.

RAIL IMPROVEMENTS:
- Roberts Bank rail corridor completely grade-separated through Langley City.
- Burrard Inlet rail corridor completely grade-separated to at least Slocan Street, potentially to Boundary Road.
- Grade seperation of rail lines at:

• Westwood Street
• Harris Road
• Pitt River Road
• Braid Street (United Blvd extension)

- I'd also really like to see the New West rail bridge replaced but that seems to have fallen off the radar...

OTHER INFRASTRUCTURE:
- Deltaport Terminal 2
- Centerm Expansion
- YVR Terminal 4 and/or Concourse D extension/completion.
- YVR B/C Pier improvements, phase 2.
- New St. Paul's Hospital
- Royal Columbian Hospital redevelopment
- Lions Gate and Iona wastewater treatment plants.

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I might sound like a lot, but most of this stuff is planned to be built in the next 10 years, or sooner. It would also be roughly in line with what we've seen the last 10 years, not counting economic/population growth.

[urbancanadian]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Toronto is more of the exception than the rule over the last ten years, especially when it comes to towers in a western country.
.

Toronto's boom has been very impressive. But don't discount Vancouver. On a per-capita basis, we were not far behind Toronto even during their busiest years. Currently, we may actually be ahead (and still are in terms of complete towers per-capita), but the difference is the building heights.

[Metro-One]

Fantastic post urbancanadian!

Exactly the type of response / conversation I was hoping to start.

You added so many projects that I missed / forgot about (I was writing my first post at work on a Japanese keyboard so my time was limited, haha).

I could literally copy and paste you list as my wish list for satisfaction in 10 years

And yes, people in Vancouver sometime lose sight of how much we have added over the last ten years and just how much the skyline has / will change for the taller / better.

[Klazu]

Thanks Metro-One for having Rolling Stones playing in my head for the last few days...