Metro Phoenix Transit/Transportation Developments

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by xymox

Take Northern all the way to SR-51 - or swing it south and run it along the original SR-50 route...

Those interchanges won’t help much - the diverging diamond interchange for Happy Valley won’t alleviate congestion like they think. The true problem is the FWY -> FWY interchange of L303 to I-17 was de-programmed and moved out of this cycle. That’s where the congestion ends - and where the source of the backup onto 17 is. The amount of traffic flowing through that interchange exceeds what the diamond traffic light configuration can accommodate.

I agree with the diverging diamond. I have never like this style of interchange. It will help out the traffic flow over the roundabouts/one lane bridge for Happy Valley though. Just out of curiosity, why has Phoenix seemed to abandon SPUI's? I don't think there is a single SPUI being built for the South Mountain Loop. The argument could be made for space, but a diverging diamond takes up way more space. It seems like Phoenix just wants to do what other cities are doing instead of tried and true methods.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by xymox

Take Northern all the way to SR-51 - or swing it south and run it along the original SR-50 route...

Those interchanges won’t help much - the diverging diamond interchange for Happy Valley won’t alleviate congestion like they think. The true problem is the FWY -> FWY interchange of L303 to I-17 was de-programmed and moved out of this cycle. That’s where the congestion ends - and where the source of the backup onto 17 is. The amount of traffic flowing through that interchange exceeds what the diamond traffic light configuration can accommodate.

Run the northern parkway through one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in the city?

Good luck, maybe Elon will dig a tunnel for it.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

The plan being worked on is to widen I-17 an additional lane with nearly every interchange from Central to Bell getting reconfigured or improved. I believe the plan is in the design phases right now.

http://www.azmag.gov/Portals/0/Docum...aster-Plan.pdf

Edit: For added grins, check out the Broadway interchange recommended alternative. Good luck navigating this mess. Ugh!

Oh man that interchange! i actually kind of like it from a "infrastructure Gore" type of perspective. It would probably be better actually, and the new Frontage road that will totally screw over Fry's Electronics.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

http://azbex.com/phx-transportation-...oing-progress/

Thanks for the link. They make a nice easy-to-read presentation.

Originally Posted by DesertRay

Ugh. I did a few weeks ago. An 18ish-year-old young man asked me to sign two petitions. I had already signed one, and said "nope" to the second. He was kind of argumentative...

Great anecdotal story; hilarious, actually.

Originally Posted by exit2lef

This event was minimally publicized, even on the social media of organizations involved, but it appears notorious anti-transit activist Randall O'Toole was in town this week to speak against the South Central line at the local office of Americans for Prosperity:

I saw that; I wonder what they think of AZ turning purplish?

That's disgusting the misleading tactics they employ to gather signatures.

[TakeFive]

Good news on the transit front

http://www.startribune.com/southwest...dle/500527811/

Met Council gets a sign that $929 million in federal grant money will be forthcoming.

The Southwest light-rail line cleared a critical hurdle Wednesday that will allow construction to begin on the $2 billion project this winter.

The Federal Transit Administration (FTA) has notified the Metropolitan Council that it will likely pay for close to half the cost of the nearly 15-mile line linking downtown Minneapolis with Eden Prairie — the biggest public works project in state history.

Given how constipated the Trump Admin/FTA has been in approving transit projects this has to provide hope for Phoenix and others also waiting in line. While the “letter of no prejudice” isn't as golden as a Full Funding Grant Agreement it has historically led to that.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Thanks for the link. They make a nice easy-to-read presentation.


Great anecdotal story; hilarious, actually.


I saw that; I wonder what they think of AZ turning purplish?

That's disgusting the misleading tactics they employ to gather signatures.

Arizona has always been purplish

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Good news on the transit front

http://www.startribune.com/southwest...dle/500527811/

Given how constipated the Trump Admin/FTA has been in approving transit projects this has to provide hope for Phoenix and others also waiting in line. While the “letter of no prejudice” isn't as golden as a Full Funding Grant Agreement it has historically led to that.

If you expect any Republican to be more open to federal transit spending than Trump you are fooling yourself

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Run the northern parkway through one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in the city?

Good luck, maybe Elon will dig a tunnel for it.

He has been busy.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/...g.cnn-business

Elon Musk tweeted a video of his Boring Company's 2-mile tunnel underneath Los Angeles.

Originally Posted by Obadno

If you expect any Republican to be more open to federal transit spending than Trump you are fooling yourself

Actually many, many Republicans support transit; their biggest problem is agreeing how to pay for Federal Transportation Bills. A lot of Red State Republicans realize that transit will be a necessary part of the future and many red states are more dependent on the federal teat than are blue states.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Obadno

If you expect any Republican to be more open to federal transit spending than Trump you are fooling yourself

The Trump Administration has proposed eliminating most federal funds for transit projects. It has been Congress, under GOP control, that has kept those funds in place. Even so, the Federal Transit Administration has been accused of being slow to award the funds that Congress has appropriated. Over the past few days, however, those funds have started to flow to places like Minneapolis and Seattle for long-promised rail projects. Perhaps that's a reaction to the incoming Democratic majority in the House of Representatives. Whatever the cause, it's good news for projects like the Tempe Streetcar and the South Central light rail extension.

[Obadno]

What potential GOP president would be open to transit any more than the Trump admin? thats what im saying.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by Obadno

What potential GOP president would be open to transit any more than the Trump admin? thats what im saying.

Have you interviewed all the potential GOP presidents to find out their stance on public transportation?

The answer is we don't know.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Obadno

What potential GOP president would be open to transit any more than the Trump admin? thats what im saying.

That's a fair, interesting question.

True that most Republican voters live outside urban areas. Also true that politics gets pretty silly. Remember when McCain became 'anti-immigrant'? Considering the craziness at the time he was just doing what he needed to get elected.

The bigger issue at the federal level is agreeing how to pay for transportation/infrastructure bills. The last bill that passed - FASTER - was very fair to transit. It came from Bill Shuster's republican committee. As much as transportation has traditionally been a bipartisan issue it became an exceedingly difficult area to find 'funding' agreement starting in 2007/8. They kept just rolling over the existing condition until FASTER passed in 2015.

Typically, Dems are more concerned with social spending while Republicans prefer defense and tax cuts. Not sure how they're going to solve the infrastructure puzzle given federal deficits are headed much higher. Fortunately FASTER goes thru 2020 IIRC.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Obadno

What potential GOP president would be open to transit any more than the Trump admin? thats what im saying.

Maryland Governor Larry Hogan and Massachusetts Governor Charlie Baker come to mind. Unfortunately, I don't think either would survive the primaries and win the nomination in today's Republican party.

Despite all of Trump's talk about infrastructure, there are two reasons his administration has turned out to be anti-transit:

1) The administration basically outsourced its budgetary priority setting to Heritage Action the moment it put Mick Mulvaney in charge of the Office of Management and Budget. Heritage Action is strongly opposed to a federal role in transit funding.

2) Trump continues to cultivate his base rather than trying to unify and build coalitions. That means playing to the perceived interests of rural areas and suburbs while ignoring, or actively working against, the cities in which voters overwhelmingly opposed him.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Have you interviewed all the potential GOP presidents to find out their stance on public transportation?

The answer is we don't know.

During the Reagan era there was a policy codified that something like 15-18 percent of transportation funding will be reserved for transit (at a minimum).
Most 'normal' candidates would speak to the importance of infrastructure investment in general w/o getting into a transit v roads position. Unless they specifically rant against transit then I'd assume they support both.

I think by now that most Republicans agree that we can't pave your way out of congestion. There is however that ideological slice who opposes transit. There's also the valid puzzle of finding the proper balance.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Run the northern parkway through one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in the city?

Good luck, maybe Elon will dig a tunnel for it.

This has happened a couple times already in the past: SR 51 through the dreamy draw was ‘the most expensive’ land acquisition at the time. Then the next most expensive was the L101 Pima from Scottsdale Rd to Thunderbird.

Could definitely happen again. Though north Scottsdale opposition did kill the proposed extension of L303 from I-17 to SR-87 along Dynamite.

A tunnel/big dig type solution would be quite interesting - but I thought I read somewhere that tunneling in the PHX area won’t work due to the composition of the land. (Acknowledging your sarcasm... )

[DesertRay]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

During the Reagan era there was a policy codified that something like 15-18 percent of transportation funding will be reserved for transit (at a minimum).
Most 'normal' candidates would speak to the importance of infrastructure investment in general w/o getting into a transit v roads position. Unless they specifically rant against transit then I'd assume they support both.

I think by now that most Republicans agree that we can't pave your way out of congestion. There is however that ideological slice who opposes transit. There's also the valid puzzle of finding the proper balance.

Blue state Republicans (and they do exist) usually advocate for transit dollars despite the GOP lobbyists and pressure groups (Heritage, KochInc, etc.), but will take a bath for it if things don't go perfectly. Albuquerque's outgoing Republican mayor is being crucified for spending money on a rapid ride bus system with electric buses. This shouldn't be controversial beyond the regular pains of business owners that have their front porch wrecked for a spell, but this has been a way to bash a pretty forward-thinking Republican back into his square hole. Kind of sad, really.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

1) The administration basically outsourced its budgetary priority setting to Heritage Action the moment it put Mick Mulvaney in charge of the Office of Management and Budget. Heritage Action is strongly opposed to a federal role in transit funding.

2) Trump continues to cultivate his base rather than trying to unify and build coalitions. That means playing to the perceived interests of rural areas and suburbs while ignoring, or actively working against, the cities in which voters overwhelmingly opposed him.

Absolutely spot on. I chuckle daily at all the nonsensical tweets; yet there's that hard core base that doesn't care about any of that and believe he's doing his darndest to clean up the swamp.

Originally Posted by DesertRay

Blue state Republicans (and they do exist) usually advocate for transit dollars despite the GOP lobbyists and pressure groups (Heritage, KochInc, etc.), but will take a bath for it if things don't go perfectly. Albuquerque's outgoing Republican mayor is being crucified for spending money on a rapid ride bus system with electric buses. This shouldn't be controversial beyond the regular pains of business owners that have their front porch wrecked for a spell, but this has been a way to bash a pretty forward-thinking Republican back into his square hole. Kind of sad, really.

The ART was srsly mishandled but it was a case of getting it done some how, some way and hope it works. They did assume money would come before they had a FFGA so the lag in finally getting funding was one sore spot. When BYD set up shop in L.A. their pricing on electric buses was so reasonable that orders came pouring in and they couldn't meet anybody's delivery schedules. RTD ordered new 16th street mall buses from BYD and it took forever. Let's say that the results did not meet the expectations based on what had been promised. C'est La Vie.

[exit2lef]

The anti-rail activists in South Phoenix have scheduled a press conference for Wednesday. They claim to have 40,000 signatures on their petition. They're also coming armed with multiple exclamation points:

https://www.facebook.com/events/274125676626473/

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

The anti-rail activists in South Phoenix have scheduled a press conference for Wednesday. They claim to have 40,000 signatures on their petition. They're also coming armed with multiple exclamation points:

https://www.facebook.com/events/274125676626473/

https://www.abc15.com/news/region-ph...after-break-in

“When Phoenix City Council can pass $1 billion budget just a few weeks ago for a light rail [expansion] that goes nowhere, but yet they can’t get $15 million to properly fund law enforcement in this area, where are there priorities?" questioned Charles.

Talk to me Charles; what going on?

“I can’t tell you what’s going to happen next," said Charles. "If this isn’t the worst, I don’t know what the worst is, and I know people living in this area don’t want to find out.” He says while his street off 19th and Northern avenues looks quaint and safe, crime has only gotten worse over the years.

On Wednesday, Charles says his wife was getting ready to hit the road with their daughter Reagan when she noticed things missing inside their car, and something sticking out of her daughter's car seat. She found a needle, one they believe was used by whoever broke in laced with heroin. “This needle was filthy, and had obviously been used many, many, many times," he added. "It had dried blood in it; it had the substance in it, it had grime around the top of it.”

People love to conflate issues as one has nothing to do with the other; nonetheless you have to empathize with Charles frustration.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

People love to conflate issues as one has nothing to do with the other; nonetheless you have to empathize with Charles frustration.

Charles has succumbed to a common fallacy: Thinking that all government money is fungible. In reality, transit has dedicated funding that cannot be diverted to public safety. The police union in Phoenix, not exactly known for its progressive positions, actually supported Proposition 104 because when transit was removed from the general fund, the money there previously dedicated to transit was redirected towards more police hiring.

https://azplea.com/plea-news/proposi...4-transit-tax/