[Halifax] The Roy Halifax | 71 m | 22 fl | Completed

[-Harlington-]

Roy Building redevelopment disputed


METRO HALIFAX
Published: April 11, 2011 12:47 a.m.
Last modified: April 11, 2011 12:50 a.m.
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The municipality’s heritage advisory committee is pushing back against proposed changes to the Roy Building.

Regional council is set to decide tomorrow on the fate of the Roy Building, located at 1651 Barrington St., and the Discovery Centre building at 1595 Barrington St.

Both buildings have developers planning mixed-use commercial redevelopments.

While the heritage advisory committee approves of the Discovery Centre development, a report to council suggests plans for the Roy Building do not comply with the municipality’s policy on adjacent buildings.

“It is the opinion of the committee that the proposal does not satisfactorily address (the policy) with respect to the Barrington sub-area,” reads the report, submitted by committee chair Stephen Terauds.

On that ground, the report recommends refusing the development agreement with Starfish Properties.

A staff report on the issue, along with the opinion of the District 12 Planning Advisory Committee, recommends the development agreement be approved.

[fenwick16]

I think that Starfish Properties deserves an award for proposing to redevelop this property (Roy Building - below). With this Roy building, the Discovery Centre, Sam the Record Man buildings (across the street, also owned by Starfish) and the NFB redeveloped then Barrington Street will be a very appealing, vibrant street. If United Gulf, the Nova Centre, Salter Block and Alexander go ahead, which all contain residential units, then Barrington Street will likely be bustling with pedestrians.

(source - screen capture of Google Street View - Street View Image

[someone123]

Unfortunately, as that photo demonstrates, the Roy Building looks awful in its current state. It was full of tenants until Starfish kicked them out. Across the street, the Sam the Record Man buildings have also sat vacant for years. Why? These vacancies have caused a great deal of damage to the street.

Starfish has done some great work downtown but I think this was a huge mistake.

Having the UG towers, Salter, and Nova Centre all go ahead is looking increasingly far-fetched. I'm not sure what's going on with the Alexander but given the success of projects like the Trillium one would think that project could also be successful.

[halifaxboyns]

I'd have to agree with Someone123 - while I think it's great they are going ahead with the developments; they are a young company and have made some really rookie mistakes, the biggest of which kicking out the tentants from both the buildings. I have to agree with SO; that's really had a disasterous effect on Barrington Street.

That being said - like I said; they are a young company and every young company makes mistakes. Hopefully they will not make the same mistake again or be seriously penalized for it. Despite the disasterous effects the mistake has made; there is no sense dwelling on it - lets get the developments approved and get the construction started.

But I will tell you; if they are one of these companies that pushes ahead to get approvals and then just sits there on it - they'd loose what little forgiveness I have.

[fenwick16]

I think that it very easy to understand, especially with the Sam the Record Man and adjacent buildings. They have plans to add two storeys and renovate the buildings (according to a recent story, they are finalizing the plans). I don't see how Starfish could proceed if they rented out the space, and how many tenants would want to rent commercial space for an indefinite time period?

With the Roy Building, it looks like it is outdated and it could very well be a fire hazard. It has portable air conditioners in several windows (this is an embarrassment for downtown Halifax). I don't know if it has fire sprinklers, but if not then it could literally be a death trap and a liability to Starfish Properties, the owner.

I think that the reason that many buildings sit vacant for years in downtown Halifax is because project approvals take years and the timing is unpredictable. This Roy Building and the Discovery Centre were supposed to have been grandfathered in (at least for a hearing) but instead a clerical error delayed it for what, 2 years? This should have been an embarrassment for the municipality and province but instead of them quickly rectifying it, both levels of government dragged it out. The Discovery Centre is a different situation since it won't be vacant until 2013.

As far as the term kicking out tenants goes - did they really evict tenants or did they just not renew rental and commercial contracts. It makes sense that they would want the buildings empty so that they could proceed with renovations/additions.

Developers aren't given much help in the HRM. The ones that stick around should be admired not criticized.

[halifaxboyns]

I would agree with you that HRM doesn't help. But they didn't help the downtown either. Tenancy within the building I'm sure could have been setup with appropriate clauses to require the end of a rental when time came for construction. I honestly miss the pool hall that was on Barrington Street in the Roy - had many good times there.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

But I will tell you; if they are one of these companies that pushes ahead to get approvals and then just sits there on it - they'd loose what little forgiveness I have.

My big worry is that we'll end up with a giant parking lot on Barrington where the Roy Building used to be.

I guess we'll see, but I'd feel better about it if it weren't surrounded by a bunch of other derelict sites that were supposed to have similar projects.

[Waye Mason]

My understanding on the Roy is they have been very good to their commercial office tenants, but that they did not want to demise or divide the street level shops, and then get some young person in there with a great idea (Freak Lunchbox Two) and then have to kick them out a year or two later.

I think if you look at Barrington, those three blocks, you have an unfortunate circumstance of three major trends colliding.

One is urban renewal. The Discovery Centre, Roy, Sams, and NFB to CD Plus buildings are all being developed, or proposed to be developed, in the next couple years. I think when all these are done that Barrington will rebound, but only if the landlords make sure the street level shops are able to be 25-30 foot frontages. If they are hoping to get Shoppers back I don't think that will happen, or any other huge retailer. Too bad they are all in the pipe at once.

Two is the collapse of analog media and associated retail. CD Plus, Sams, Random Play, A&A Records, Carsand Mosher.... old tech. A lot of the vacancies and churn are driven by collapsing business models that have nothing to do with Barrington.

Three is government ownership. Moving Mary Black Gallery out of the Supply and Services building on Prince and Barrington was bad for the street. That should have street level shops or services. HRM or the Province (don't know if they swapped it yet) owning the parking lot at George and Barrington. The HRM neglecting the Khyber. This is the downtown urban version of what happened in Bayers Lake when the private property owner refused to landscape until HRM did the same at their salt dome. Both levels of government should lead by example and build and renovate those buildings/lots to a spec that meets the expectations of the street plan.

I think between the new developments about to happen and all the historic district money going into refurbing current buildings that Barrington has good potential, just the next few years are going to be painful. If everything was approved today, that is still 2-3 years of hoardings, construction, dust, noise before it gets back to functional. It's going to be tough.

[someone123]

It is an unfortunate series of events but mostly it is a result of poor planning and incompetence (e.g. clerical error).

The Roy retail has been vacant for what, 2 years? And the redevelopment almost certainly will be appealed. It may or may not even be approved.

Another issue is that the HRM has talked about streetscape improvements but they've dithered for so long on those that they either won't happen or will be yet another year-long inconvenience. Really HRM's neglect and mismanagement of this street cannot be overstated. The heritage rules could have been implemented in 1998.

I'm also skeptical about the NFB project and Sam starting this summer, though I don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Has the restoration of the Green Lantern Building happened?

[fenwick16]

Does anyone know what transpired last night at city hall regarding the Roy Building and Discovery Centre?

PS: Thanks hoser111. I was off by one day. I read a story in the allnovascotia.com last night (Monday) that said that it would be decided "tonight" - I realize now that they meant tonight (Tuesday). Their Tuesday edition comes out around 11PM Monday evening (Atlantic time).

[hoser111]

fenwick....it's actually tonight. Probably going on at this very moment....

[sdm]

approved to proceed to public hearing.

[resetcbu1]

Originally Posted by sdm

approved to proceed to public hearing.

Great news, hope all these on this block will be done eventualy....

[Empire]

The danger with both the Roy and Discovery developments is that they could both sit in a state of suspended demolition for years. Potentially the Roy could become a hole in the ground and sit that way for 10-20 years and the Discovery Centre could be gutted and look like Waterside for 10-20 years.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Empire

The danger with both the Roy and Discovery developments is that they could both sit in a state of suspended demolition for years. Potentially the Roy could become a hole in the ground and sit that way for 10-20 years and the Discovery Centre could be gutted and look like Waterside for 10-20 years.

If they go residential (rental) they have a greater chance of being built as there would be no required preleasing or pre selling. Once they finalize their plans they can qualify for a CMHC secured mortgage and be built.

If either project intends to pursue commercial office they will sit a very long time as they will require preleasing in a market that is beyond soft right now.

[Jonovision]

Sorry for the short notice, but I just found out there is a public information meeting this evening at 6pm on this project in Suite 201 in 1668 Barrington Street. Right above the Telus store.

And the Public Hearing has been set for May 10th.

[eastcoastal]

I find the opinions of the municipality's advisory committees pretty odd on this and the discovery centre proposal.

I heard that the Heritage Advisory Committee did not recommend the Roy proposal, but the Dist. 12 Planning Advisory Committee did.

Over at the Discovery Centre site, the opinions were reversed.

[Jonovision]

The more and more I look at this development and the more I learn about the more I like it. It has the potential to have a great mix of uses. The current building is in a state where it can no longer be saved and the new design does a good job of taking some of the important elements of the old building and integrating them with some newer ideas.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Jonovision

The more and more I look at this development and the more I learn about the more I like it. It has the potential to have a great mix of uses. The current building is in a state where it can no longer be saved and the new design does a good job of taking some of the important elements of the old building and integrating them with some newer ideas.

Are they planning to have any residential and retail in the Roy Building?

[sdm]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Are they planning to have any residential and retail in the Roy Building?

If they want to built it with no requirements for preleasing/ preselling and do what is best for the street the only choice is residential rental.

I still believe the building as it sits today, obviously with significant upgrades, would make a dynamic downtown loft style apartments.