Emerson, Manitoba border crossings

[Taeolas]

Just did a Google Maps peak to confirm what I said, and it is quite obvious. The Eastern border between Canada and the US is probably wilder than the Prairie borders are.

Along the New Brunswick edge, most of it is forest and lakes, except for the Woodstock to Grand Falls stretch, where there's development on both sides. Beyond that, you still have development along the Saint John River/TCH, but there's nothing on the Maine side. Maine is effectively deserted north and west of Caribou.

The International border effectively stays wilds (Forests, Lakes, the Green Mountains and White Mountains) until you get to Lac Champlain at the Vermont/Quebec border. There, I'd say the terrain is tamed enough to have some crossings; though you are still in the mountains for the most part. But at least there would be bus traffic and ways to get close to the border (unlike the New Brunswick end).

Going beyond that, you could probably do some sneaking across up until the border becomes the St Lawrence river (and continues to the Great lakes).

Originally Posted by esquire

^ AB and SK's low numbers are probably due to relative distance from big US cities with immigrant/refugee populations. No one in Minneapolis will bother going to SK when MB is closer.

NB on the other hand is fairly close to the big eastern seaboard US cities so you'd think there would be at least a few. Not sure why no one has crossed there, though.

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

These areas look pretty easy to sneak across from one country to another.

https://goo.gl/maps/KEdygZXWi792 (pedestrian bridge in background takes you from QC left to ME right)

https://goo.gl/maps/mkVqYtoxRxp (ME left QC right)

https://goo.gl/maps/jh2MVMFrhYH2 (foreground NB, background ME..this is a crossing similar to the one near Hemmingford that is getting all the media attention).

https://goo.gl/maps/bc1yvNyBvcs (foreground ME, background NB)

The later two are basically on the Saint John River valley stretch that I said would be 'easier' to cross at.

The problem with the first two you mention is there is not really any way to get up there from the Maine side.

For people who are used to our environment, and are good at trailblazing and/or just travelling in the New England/Maritime climate, going back and forth across the NB/Maine border is trivial. (I live here and I could probably find numerous ways to criss cross it without trying hard).

For people NOT from the area, possibly not used to the climate, not used to the forest terrain we have up here; it is a lot less trivial to get up here. Especially since there isn't any sort of mass transit that goes anywhere near the border from Maine. You have to have your own car (or hitchhike with a transport truck) and that's about it. Or maybe hitch on a train if you're lucky. (No passenger trains, and most of the cargo trains are going Canada to Canada, or coming up through Calais area)

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Reuters/IPSOS poll on immigration. Lots of charts...bottom line is nearly half (48%) want to send illegal immigrants coming in from the U.S. back.

"Fleeing Trump"

http://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx...0FW/index.html

"Fleeing Trump"? The majority of the illegals that entered through Manitoba were in the US less than two months. Either you have a border or you don't, if you can't enter Canada legally through a border crossing you are breaking the law.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

You'd have a lot of trouble living here undocumented. It's not like the US - no one is going to school and almost no one is getting a job without documentation.

Illegal immigrants can enroll in educational courses just as long as they don't last longer than six months. I find it hard to believe that kids wouldn't be able to go to school. Wouldn't that be up to the provinces anyway?

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

"Fleeing Trump"? The majority of the illegals that entered through Manitoba were in the US less than two months. Either you have a border or you don't, if you can't enter Canada legally through a border crossing you are breaking the law.

That's the title of the article/research not my title.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

"Fleeing Trump"? The majority of the illegals that entered through Manitoba were in the US less than two months. Either you have a border or you don't, if you can't enter Canada legally through a border crossing you are breaking the law.

The story of these people has yet to be fully told. Despite "Trump era" media reports, I suspect that a considerable number of them entered the USA with the intention of coming to Canada. I understand that the two countries agreed a couple of weeks ago to study the matter, which seems a good starting point for understanding what we're dealing with.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

The story of these people has yet to be fully told. Despite "Trump era" media reports, I suspect that a considerable number of them entered the USA with the intention of coming to Canada. I understand that the two countries agreed a couple of weeks ago to study the matter, which seems a good starting point for understanding what we're dealing with.

I've heard some sources claim that but if that's the case then why didn't they come to Canada directly? These people study up on the applicable laws before they make a move so it's hard to believe that they didn't know about the third country agreement.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Illegal immigrants can enroll in educational courses just as long as they don't last longer than six months. I find it hard to believe that kids wouldn't be able to go to school. Wouldn't that be up to the provinces anyway?

In Ontario, you can't register for school without documentation.

Landlords in vast majority of cases will not rent to you without a credit check.

Banks will not allow you to open an account without a SIN number.

ID requirements also exist for getting a cell phone or internet plan.

Living undocumented/off-the-grid is basically impossible in Canada.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

I've heard some sources claim that but if that's the case then why didn't they come to Canada directly? These people study up on the applicable laws before they make a move so it's hard to believe that they didn't know about the third country agreement.

That would be a good question, especially wrt people who were not legally in the USA (eg people who overstayed their visa). The whole thing about the illegal entry into Canada is that these folks are aware of the Safe Third Country agreement. One of the things we need to know more about is the network(s) that are providing this information and, perhaps, facilitating efforts to get into Canada.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

In Ontario, you can't register for school without documentation.

Landlords in vast majority of cases will not rent to you without a credit check.

Banks will not allow you to open an account without a SIN number.

ID requirements also exist for getting a cell phone or internet plan.

Living undocumented/off-the-grid is basically impossible in Canada.

These immigration lawyers say differently concerning taking courses. I think I'll believe them over you.

http://www.visaplace.com/blog-immigr...nts-in-canada/

[1overcosc]

^ Literally the only thing mentioned was "courses not beyond six months", without specifying what that was. The article referred to many of the things I pointed out, showing that it's very difficult to live as an undocumented person in Canada.

All the examples I gave (public school boards in Ontario, landlords, banks, cell phones) are true and your link doesn't even touch those topics.

[lio45]

You can easily find semi-slumlords who'll rent to you without a credit check in a heartbeat if you're undocumented with some cash in Canada (and can pay).

Also, illegals don't really need bank accounts, and I don't believe you need a SIN to get an internet connection at all...

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by lio45

You can easily find semi-slumlords who'll rent to you without a credit check in a heartbeat if you're undocumented with some cash in Canada (and can pay).

Also, illegals don't really need bank accounts, and I don't believe you need a SIN to get an internet connection at all...

Or, as has been the case for individuals I have been aware of, you can live with a friend or acquaintance. You can also work off the books. I can't think of anything that would make it especially difficult for an illegal migrant who was single or with a partner, but no kids, to live in Canada. All you need, really, is motivation and good health.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Or, as has been the case for individuals I have been aware of, you can live with a friend or acquaintance. You can also work off the books. I can't think of anything that would make it especially difficult for an illegal migrant who was single with a partner, but no kids, to live in Canada. All you need, really, is motivation and good health.

Perhaps, but why would you do it if Canada isn't very deportation-happy with refugee claimants and offers a pretty good deal while your application is being processed?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Perhaps, but why would you do it if Canada isn't very deportation-happy with refugee claimants and offers a pretty good deal while your application is being processed?

Well, people from the USA and WEuropean countries do seek refugee status from time to time (and even succeed on rare occasions), but why would you bother, especially if you're not looking to live in Canada permanently? Who is going to bother you if you're a Frenchman or an Irishman who has overstayed? Even if you are from a country for which Canada requires a visa, in the absence of any effective exit controls (afaik), how is anyone to know you aren't supposed to be here? They live and walk among us.....

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Well, people from the USA and WEuropean countries do seek refugee status from time to time (and even succeed on rare occasions), but why would you bother, especially if you're not looking to live in Canada permanently? Who is going to bother you if you're a Frenchman or an Irishman who has overstayed? Even if you are from a country for which Canada requires a visa, in the absence of any effective exit controls (afaik), how is anyone to know you aren't supposed to be here? They live and walk among us.....

Sure, but I guess we aren't talking about the same types of people and the same situations then.

[JM5]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I don't think that there's a powerful refugee lobby ("Big Refugee"?). I don't think that anyone has some huge vested interest in taking in people desperately running for their lives. On the contrary, an entire political cottage industry has sprung up to fan the underlying fear of 'the other' which we all have in order to win votes and gain power.

Ultimately, we don't have to do anything. We can fold in on ourselves and our narrow, short-term self-interests. But nobody wants to live in a society of narrow, short-term self-interest.

There might not be a powerful refugee lobby, but there is a pretty powerful immigrant lobby and refugees are really not that different from immigrants.

That last part is a bit of a straw man argument (I learned something new today!) since I never said anything about living in a society of narrow, short-term interests. But you're 100% right, nobody does want to live in such a society

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

^ Literally the only thing mentioned was "courses not beyond six months", without specifying what that was. The article referred to many of the things I pointed out, showing that it's very difficult to live as an undocumented person in Canada.

All the examples I gave (public school boards in Ontario, landlords, banks, cell phones) are true and your link doesn't even touch those topics.

LOL! You said they couldn't go to school and I showed otherwise. Not sure why you're acting confused about what a course is other than to try and muddy the waters because you refuse to admit you're wrong. And just because they didn't mention public schools doesn't mean there isn't a way for kids to be registered. Maybe the government provides special schooling for these kids. If so, what's the difference? They still get some education while waiting in limbo which is better than getting none.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by lio45

You can easily find semi-slumlords who'll rent to you without a credit check in a heartbeat if you're undocumented with some cash in Canada (and can pay).

Also, illegals don't really need bank accounts, and I don't believe you need a SIN to get an internet connection at all...

Do you remember having to show your ISP your SIN to get Internet? I sure don't and I wouldn't have given it to them anyway.

[1overcosc]

You need a credit check and ID to sign a contract for a cell phone. When you stop and think about it there are so many things that became very difficult or impossible to do without ID, a bank account, and a credit file.. things most of us take for granted.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Or, as has been the case for individuals I have been aware of, you can live with a friend or acquaintance. You can also work off the books. I can't think of anything that would make it especially difficult for an illegal migrant who was single or with a partner, but no kids, to live in Canada. All you need, really, is motivation and good health.

In my own experience, it's much easier to live undocumented in Canada than in the USA, but I realize that most of that is probably due to building configuration and age.

I have never seen anything in my neck of the woods in FL that wasn't rented without services, even studios; you need a SSN (or a Canadian SIN; it works too) to start electrical service.

On the other hand, in a place like Sherbrooke, you can easily find old buildings that are divided in ways that make it impossible for landlords to rent without all utilities included. I even happen to own two such buildings at the moment -- one is a Victorian mansion from 1874, a 3-story large SFH that eventually got divided into 9 units (it has three electrical meters and panels for the lot of them); the other one is a four-story building from the 1870s as well that is divided into studios (it was originally a three-story SFH as well; it was on the top of a hill and now there's a fourth story that is street level commercial retail in what used to be the basement).

Someone who just jumped the border near Emerson could show up right now and probably get my Sherbrooke property manager to rent him an unit if he's got some cash on him, especially if he pays a couple months upfront or more.

(There must be such buildings in the northeastern US too, obviously...)

BTW, 1overcosc, I believe, if I recall the configuration of your property in Kingston, that you could also be renting to an undocumented Emersonian border jumper without any issue tomorrow... something I could not do in any of my American properties (there would be zero reason for me to accept to do something as unheard of as keeping electrical service to my name; just the request would sound really fishy and weird).