Emerson, Manitoba border crossings

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by JM5

Your point is entirely valid, but to quote Acajack in the Multiculturalism thread:
"Don't worry about the rocks ahead. We've seen rocks before and always managed to avoid them. No need to use the rudder at this point."

We have become aware of a potential problem early. Let's not act brashly and loose face in front of the international community just yet and agree to keep an eye on the situation. It's just a question of how much faith you have that our politicians will act if things take a turn... and with Trudeau at the helm, I agree that there is some cause for concern. I'm just not too worried yet.

Like I've said before, there may not be any concern at the moment (thankfully) but we continue to be a passive nation that takes chances time and time again. One of these days that will come back to haunt us and we will all pay the price in the end. Why not be proactive and take precautionary measures now to avoid the necessity to act in a reactive manner? We can be organized, efficient and successful as opposed to "OMG WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING NOW BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS OUT OF CONTROL!!!" This is common sense to me and I don't understand why others can't get beyond the "we only need to do something when shit hits the fan" passive attitude.

[JM5]

Originally Posted by Pinus

Like I've said before, there may not be any concern at the moment (thankfully) but we continue to be a passive nation that takes chances time and time again. One of these days that will come back to haunt us and we will all pay the price in the end. Why not be proactive and take precautionary measures now to avoid the necessity to act in a reactive manner? We can be organized, efficient and successful as opposed to "OMG WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING NOW BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS OUT OF CONTROL!!!" This is common sense to me and I don't understand why others can't get beyond the "we only need to do something when shit hits the fan" passive attitude.

In my mind, it's because our relationship with the US is very important and with Trump having been recently elected, it would look bad if we suddenly dropped the STCA. I'm sure it would earn at least a couple of late night tweets and numerous raised eyebrows especially since JT was just down there to show his willingness to work with the new US president. We probably shouldn't ruffle Trump's feathers unless we have a good reason to do so, even if the STCA doesn't appear to be worth the paper it was written on. Just bad optics.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Pinus

No, I will not calm down. I will continue to vocalise my opposition to this stupidity of our government putting us at risk because of the "we are "Canada" malarchy. Just because we are "Canada" does not mean we have to be a doormat to the US and the rest of the world. We can still be a welcoming nation to everyone, however we do not need to willingly allow people from the United States cross our border illegally. These people are not refugees. I will never change my stance and there does seem to be a growing number of Canadians who are finally seeing the light on this matter and wanting our government to put Canadians first. These people are not Canada's problem; they belong to the US and are their problem. Send them back to the US.

Time to grow some balls Canada.

There is very little that can be done. It is a very long boarder. Short of building a big wall there is little we can do to stop people from coming over it illegally.

Authorities can monitor what happens and catch them once they come over. Looks like they are doing that.

The ones coming across trying to escape the US/Trump and looking for a better life are of little threat to Canadian society in small numbers. The numbers are small and will likely continue to be small.

The ones that are a threat are going to be elusive and creative in how they cross over. They are the ones we should be worried about. Not certain there are very many of them in that they would probably go underground and stay in the US in the first place.

[ssiguy]

I misspoke earlier about saying they refugees have no right to claim refugee status when crossing at a non-official border. I admittedly should have been more clear about what I meant.

Claiming refugee status means that they have the right to file but does not mean they have the right to be released from custody. They have the right to file the papers and this can be ajudicated within half an hour............if you are coming from the US you are not threatened due to being in a safe country with democratic institutions. In other words if you are coming from the US, heres the paper work if you feel like wasting your time, and when you are finished there's the US border, good luck and good bye. Emergency accomodation for 24 hours to ensure their health and that's it. The very MOST we should be doing is giving them a bus ticket back to Grand Forks of Minneapolis.

These immigration lawyers like to paint themselves as helping the little guy but they are just lawyers like everyone else and viewed by the public with the same regard as other lawyers......a tad better thaan politicians and lower than used car salesmen. If they REALLY cared about true refugees then they would be the firstt to demand a refusal of such border crossing people as they know that refugee admittances are capped by the feds on a yearly basis and for everyone crossing from the safe US that means fewer who are in true need trying to escape for their lives a war torn country. That however would not earn them an immediate income hence their supposed sense of social responsibility gets tossed out the window.

[jmt18325]

Once they're here, where they came from is irrelevant. It's their original country of origin that's in question.

[Pinus]

An article I agree with

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2017/03/0...-canada-at-all

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

Once they're here, where they came from is irrelevant. It's their original country of origin that's in question.

Their country of origin is no longer relevant as they are no longer in their country of origin nor in any danger. If they are coming directly from Venezuela then you judge them on their current situation in Venezuela but if they are in from Venezuela via the US {or France, Australia, Spain etc} then you judge their application on those countries.

These people are rooks and they know it. They know they can't legally apply for refugee status at border points and hence choose to cross the border a block away. Canadians are not even allowed to enter the country except at a legal border crossing so why can these people? These people are not refugee but just welfare shoppers.

Keep them at the border crossing, have them fill in the obligatory refugee claims to be adjudicated in 15 minutes and toss them back over the border after getting a meal and shelter for a night They deserve nothing more than that unless they have kids where we could provide a bus ticket to Grand Forks.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Their country of origin is no longer relevant as they are no longer in their country of origin nor in any danger. If they are coming directly from Venezuela then you judge them on their current situation in Venezuela but if they are in from Venezuela via the US {or France, Australia, Spain etc} then you judge their application on those countries.

Only if they declare at the border. These people are declaring when already in Canada. Their travel is irreverent.

[le calmar]

The numbers regarding people who claimed refugee status after entering Canada Overland in 2017 have been released. I am surprised that Southern Ontario is so high. Those people had to enter through a checkpoint and I thought it was not possible to claim refugee status this way. I am also surprised by the relatively low number on the Prairies. They made it sound like Emerson was overflooding with refugees on the news, which is apparently not the case.

Quebec : 635
Northern Ontario : 8
Southern Ontario : 464
Prairies : 110
Pacific : 22
TOTAL : 1239

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by le calmar

The numbers regarding people who claimed refugee status after entering Canada Overland have been released. I am surprised that Southern Ontario is so high. Those people had to enter through a checkpoint and I thought it was not possible to claim refugee status this way. I am also surprised by the low number in the Prairies. They made it sound like Emerson was being flooded with refugees on the news, which is apparently not the case.

Quebec : 635
Northern Ontario : 8
Southern Ontario : 464
Prairies : 110
Pacific : 22
TOTAL : 1239

I wonder how these figures compare to the averages.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I wonder how these figures compare to the averages.

This is Quebec only. (number of requests for asylum status... which include people who flew to Canada) This is different from the previous numbers but you can see the trend.

2017 : 1087 (jan and feb)
2016 : 2527
2015 : 1054
2014 : 881

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by le calmar

This is Quebec only. (number of requests for asylum status... which include people who flew to Canada) This is different from the previous numbers but you can see the trend.

2017 : 1087 (jan and feb)
2016 : 2527
2015 : 1054
2014 : 881

So all years except 2017 are the numbers for the entire year?

[le calmar]

Yes entire year... Meaning 2017 will easily be a record year since it already passed the 2014 and 2015 numbers in 2 months.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by le calmar

The numbers regarding people who claimed refugee status after entering Canada Overland in 2017 have been released. I am surprised that Southern Ontario is so high. Those people had to enter through a checkpoint and I thought it was not possible to claim refugee status this way. I am also surprised by the relatively low number on the Prairies. They made it sound like Emerson was being flooded with refugees on the news, which is apparently not the case.

Quebec : 635
Northern Ontario : 8
Southern Ontario : 464
Prairies : 110
Pacific : 22
TOTAL : 1239

For Ontario, there are a couple of methods, such as boats and a few railroad bridges.

There's a really interesting and gripping report in the New Yorker which talks about it:

The Underground Railroad for Refugees

[...]

One day, I went to Fort Erie, where I met a twenty-two-year-old Salvadoran man named Jonatan, who had crossed illegally into Canada on the railroad bridge. Jonatan was running from gang members who had repeatedly tried to coerce him into joining their ranks. When he refused, they assaulted him with a knife—he had a scar along his upper lip. He had applied for asylum in the U.S. and had been rejected. Canada considers gang violence to be grounds for political asylum, but the U.S. does not. [...]

Jonatan initially considered trekking into Canada through the forests of northern New York State, and travelled to the town of Rouses Point, which is less than two miles south of the border. But, before he could cross, a local police officer stopped him and questioned him. Feeling spooked, he decided that the railroad bridge was a better option. It was a questionable call. The bridge is not far upriver from Niagara Falls, and falling into the water would be perilous. According to Jonatan, the bridge had surveillance cameras, which ruled out crossing on foot. So he decided to sprint alongside a freight train and leap aboard. He worried that he might slip and get pulled under the wheels. “I knew I might be killed,” he told me. But he made it aboard, and when he jumped off he suffered only a few bruises. Soon afterward, he arrived at a refugee shelter in Fort Erie. So far, no Vive resident has died while making a crossing.

Lynn Hannigan, who runs the shelter where Jonatan was staying, told me that his chances of getting asylum were good. (She was right: a few months later, he won his case before the Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada.) The unfortunate thing, Hannigan said, is that he had felt the need to risk his life.

[...]

Really worth a read.

[Martin Mtl]

I guess we should change the title of this thread. Looking at the numbers, entries in Manitoba are almost insignificant.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

I guess we should change the title of this thread. Looking at the numbers, entries in Manitoba are almost insignificant.

I suppose it's relative... if you read the hysterical comments under some Winnipeg Free Press news articles, you'd think we were second only to Turkey for the number of refugee arrivals flooding in.

[Aylmer]

On the radio, they were saying that there have been about 200 arrivals in all of Manitoba since the beginning of the year. It's more than usual, for sure, but it's not exactly the apocalypse.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by esquire

I suppose it's relative... if you read the hysterical comments under some Winnipeg Free Press news articles, you'd think we were second only to Turkey for the number of refugee arrivals flooding in.

Well if you live near the border and have never ever seen a refugee before then it might be a little odd when a few come over.

I know one thing, the HQ types in Ottawa will eventually send resources to Emerson and then confidently state "We have it covered!" Then be caught totally surprised when the people keep moving west and crossing at other points. You would be surprised how clueless the Ottawa bureaucracy is when it comes to Canadian geography. I deal with it every day.

[Acajack]

We'll have a better idea of how big the phenomenon will be once the weather warms up.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by Acajack

We'll have a better idea of how big the phenomenon will be once the weather warms up.

Call me naive but I sometimes think that the PUSA's strategy all along is to "scare" the people he would call "unsavoury" into leaving the country on their own before he even starts trying to deport them. The irony is that the kinds of people that are abandoning ship (heading North in this case) aren't the kind of people he really is even worried about... If you hate the US and wish it harm you probably aren't going to abandon it for balmy Canada when given a chance. If you are desperate enough to walk across a frozen field at risk of life and limb, you're probably the kind of people we don't mind helping...