Population of Winnipeg CMA (July 1, 2015)

[drew]

Originally Posted by Spocket

That's a lot more than 20 years away.

Even if you can match the generating power of a dam, you've still got to find something that's less intrusive on the environment. I don't know how many panels you'd need to equal just one dam but I'm sure it's in the tens of thousands. Efficiency is %20 for the average panel so hydro is still the best bet by a long shot.

Not to mention, most people - if not the vast majority - simply want to plug something in, and have it work. They don't want to concern themselves with complicated systems, expensive components - etc.

In my mind - it would take an enormous shift in public thinking (i.e. some sort of energy crisis, cost increases, etc.) to get people on board. So long as hydro is cheap and reliable - MB will be just about the last place on earth to have a large percentage of solar, wind, etc. power sources.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by drew

In my mind - it would take an enormous shift in public thinking (i.e. some sort of energy crisis, cost increases, etc.) to get people on board. So long as hydro is cheap and reliable - MB will be just about the last place on earth to have a large percentage of solar, wind, etc. power sources.

Or perhaps an actual, real, genuine concern for the health of Lake Winnipeg might do it.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Or perhaps an actual, real, genuine concern for the health of Lake Winnipeg might do it.

Yes - that is certainly an issue.

I watched the Nature-of-things episode on that. Very eye-opening.

Although, there seem to be solutions to the problem that would enable the lake to get more regular "flushing" while maintaining hydro capacity.

[Riverman]

The level has to drop - substantially - and stay that way for a few years. The marshes have to almost dry out to rejuvanate. Not going to happen. Lake Winnipeg is now nothing more than an industrial headpond.

Might have to down some Ipecac and empty my stomach so I can listen to David Suzuki long enough to see that episode.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Lake Winnipeg is now nothing more than an industrial headpond.

Oh please.

If you've ever seen real pollution then you know that Lake Winnipeg is still pretty much pristine. For the most part we're talking about agricultural byproducts and while they're certainly not safe to swim in it's also not at levels that require immediate quarantine while clean-up efforts are initiated. For that matter, you can swim in Lake Winnipeg just fine so I'd say it's still plenty clean.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by rypinion

Kind of hard to see, but this is from Elon Musk. This is present day technology.



That's basically a 1/4 of the Texas Panhandle required to power the entire US. And, most of this would be on home rooftops.

http://fusion.net/story/129075/elon-...-s-with-solar/

Oh, we all know it can be done. Nevertheless, compare that to how much space would be taken up by every hydro generating station in North America. Even if you included the flooded land (not always a bad thing) you're still using less space. Secondly, not every panel is going to be under a bright sun all the time so I'm guessing that it would take far more than just what's presented to power all the U.S. I'm pretty sure we're just looking at maximum efficiency capability with a presumption of ideal conditions. At any rate, that's MILLIONS of solar panels. Not to mention that they'd require replacement regularly.

Anyway, I'm not saying that we can't or even shouldn't do it. I'm saying that it makes more sense to wait until the technology is considerably more efficient.

[rypinion]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Even if you included the flooded land (not always a bad thing) you're still using less space.

Really? I'm completely expecting the opposite (but am not willing to go digging).

Originally Posted by Spocket

Secondly, not every panel is going to be under a bright sun all the time so I'm guessing that it would take far more than just what's presented to power all the U.S. I'm pretty sure we're just looking at maximum efficiency capability with a presumption of ideal conditions.

Again, I'm assuming the exact opposite. Elon Musk is a pretty smart guy, and he specifically says these panels will be mostly on rooftops. I'm sure he's taken that (that they've be distributed across the US) into account. Yesterday I was researching putting solar panels and batteries on a tent trailer and found that it is very well documented the amount of power to be expected in each location in the US.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Oh please.

If you've ever seen real pollution then you know that Lake Winnipeg is still pretty much pristine. For the most part we're talking about agricultural byproducts and while they're certainly not safe to swim in it's also not at levels that require immediate quarantine while clean-up efforts are initiated. For that matter, you can swim in Lake Winnipeg just fine so I'd say it's still plenty clean.

I think it's fair to suggest that the standards the Chinese and Indians have set are not exactly the road we'd like to go down.

If there are troubles swimming in Lake Winnipeg, then it's gone too far. That's why we have regulations. Because a few members of the communist party in China want to pipe their straight industrial runoff into the water supply and bury technological waste on a beach doesn't mean we still have lots of damage we can inflict before it's a serious problem.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Oh please.

If you've ever seen real pollution then you know that Lake Winnipeg is still pretty much pristine. For the most part we're talking about agricultural byproducts and while they're certainly not safe to swim in it's also not at levels that require immediate quarantine while clean-up efforts are initiated. For that matter, you can swim in Lake Winnipeg just fine so I'd say it's still plenty clean.

When did I mention pollution?

The lake is being used to store water for power generation, which makes it a headpond. The continued Hydro-mandated high lake levels have killed off the marshes, the very things that allow the lake to clean itself.

The lake will continue deteriorate unless this practice is stopped. But it won't be.

So we kill Lake Winnipeg in an effort to be "green". Manitoba thinking at its finest.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by Riverman

When did I mention pollution?

The lake is being used to store water for power generation, which makes it a headpond. The continued Hydro-mandated high lake levels have killed off the marshes, the very things that allow the lake to clean itself.

The lake will continue deteriorate unless this practice is stopped. But it won't be.

So we kill Lake Winnipeg in an effort to be "green". Manitoba thinking at its finest.

Sorry, I misunderstood the word "headpond". My mistake.

[Biff]

Interesting stat from the Canada Section

Originally Posted by kora

Top 10 urban areas for permanent residents, 2014

The prairie cities continue to set all-time records as immigration shifts to the west

Toronto: 75,821
Montreal: 42,899
Vancouver: 28,406
Calgary: 19,520
Edmonton: 15,465
Winnipeg: 13,850
Ottawa: 5,238
Saskatoon: 4,461
Regina: 3,758
Hamilton: 3,125

Citizenship and Immigration Canada
Facts and figures 2014 – Immigration overview: Permanent residents
Canada – Permanent residents by province or territory and urban area
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resourc...rmanent/11.asp

[yellowghost]

I find those numbers highly dubious. I would say 650,000 tops. Winnipeg growing isn't a good thing. All those babies will have no jobs.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Oh, we all know it can be done. Nevertheless, compare that to how much space would be taken up by every hydro generating station in North America. Even if you included the flooded land (not always a bad thing) you're still using less space. Secondly, not every panel is going to be under a bright sun all the time so I'm guessing that it would take far more than just what's presented to power all the U.S. I'm pretty sure we're just looking at maximum efficiency capability with a presumption of ideal conditions. At any rate, that's MILLIONS of solar panels. Not to mention that they'd require replacement regularly.

Anyway, I'm not saying that we can't or even shouldn't do it. I'm saying that it makes more sense to wait until the technology is considerably more efficient.

I see you haven't heard of this: http://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall


That battery will make running your own solar system as easy as just plugging in. We won't need a solar farm the size of anything because we'll use existing rooftops or--if awesome sci-fi shit happens-- cover our buildings in photovoltaic paint like this: http://www.nanoflexpower.com/automotive.

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by yellowghost

I find those numbers highly dubious. I would say 650,000 tops. Winnipeg growing isn't a good thing. All those babies will have no jobs.

You are right. Maybe we should go back to a stagnant state, or better yet, head into a population regression until there is no one left. Then we can decommission the city and call it the end of an experiment.

[LilZebra]

From the 2011 Census, sorted by highest to lowest pop.:

CY Winnipeg 663,617
RM Springfield 14,069
RM St. Andrews 11,875
RM St. Clements 10,505
RM Tache 10,284
CY Selkirk 9,834
RM East St. Paul 9,046
RM Rockwood 7,964
RM Macdonald 6,280
RM Ritchot 5,478
RM West St. Paul 4,932
RM Brokenhead 4,635
RM Headingley 3,215
RM St. Francois Xavier 1,240

TOTAL 764,326

RM Cartier and Brokenhead 4 FN not included.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by Biff

I can't remember where I read it, I will see if I can find it......I read that there is a population range around 800,000 to 850,000 people where the increase starts to snowball a bit as the market size grows in density.

I understand that there are many different factors surrounding growth but there is apparently something to this number in the 800,000s where cities don't seem to stay there for too long.

There WAS a Free Press article, done by Kives or someone else during the time of Glen Murray where they said that an urban area snowballs once it reaches 750,000 pop. That article was done in the 2002-04 period.

They will get more 'big city' infrastructure, more 'things' that make a city great.

We're just above that figure now.

Sorry, I don't have a copy. But you can probably find it on the Net if you LOOK.

I think one of the things that needs upgrading replacing expanding is the Winnipeg Art Gallery (wag). It's too small. Make it a nicer building to look at from street level. Create more galleries. Move it someplace else. It doesn't have to be on Memorial Blvd. The wag is just a blank wall outside.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...s_in_the_world

[LilZebra]

I don't know if I'm reposting a link someone else may have already posted.

Here is a Report from April 2013 of pop. projections of the Winnipeg CMA:

http://www.winnipeg.ca/cao/pdfs/population_forecast.pdf

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by jimj_wpg

There WAS a Free Press article, done by Kives or someone else during the time of Glen Murray where they said that an urban area snowballs once it reaches 750,000 pop. That article was done in the 2002-04 period.

They will get more 'big city' infrastructure, more 'things' that make a city great.

We're just above that figure now.

Sorry, I don't have a copy. But you can probably find it on the Net if you LOOK.

I ,very oddly, know exactly which article you're referring to. However, on reflection, I'm pretty sure that was just somebody's "glass is half full" version of the truth. I don't think there's any magic number because everybody knows about Venice, Italy but there are cities in China with millions of people that most people on the planet have never heard of ... like Shijiazhuang. Can't even say it after six years here. The point being that population equates to "things happening" I think is a gross oversimplification.

[esquire]

^ I remember that article too.

Winnipeg's population has certainly grown and I'd say the city has improved in terms of the quality of life it offers as compared to the late 90s when we were more noticeably behind other similarly-sized cities, but I think we still have room for improvement.

Although then again, when you think about the list of new or improved infrastructure and other key amenities over the last 10-15 years, a lot has happened:

-New airport terminal
-First phase of rapid transit system began
-Road expansion (CCW, Peguis Trail Extension)
-MTS Centre and return of the NHL
-Convention Centre expansion
-Investors Group Field
-Millennium Library expansion/renovation
-CMHR
-IKEA (scoff if you must but this was a big deal for a lot of people)
-campus expansions at U of W and RRC

There really was a bit of a boom for a while there. However, it does seem that there is much less on the boards right now even though our population is creeping up to that 750-800K mark... I suppose the last few years of economic instability put the brakes on all that action.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I remember that article too.

Winnipeg's population has certainly grown and I'd say the city has improved in terms of the quality of life it offers as compared to the late 90s when we were more noticeably behind other similarly-sized cities, but I think we still have room for improvement.

Although then again, when you think about the list of new or improved infrastructure and other key amenities over the last 10-15 years, a lot has happened:

-New airport terminal
-First phase of rapid transit system began
-Road expansion (CCW, Peguis Trail Extension)
-MTS Centre and return of the NHL
-Convention Centre expansion
-Investors Group Field
-Millennium Library expansion/renovation
-CMHR
-IKEA (scoff if you must but this was a big deal for a lot of people)
-campus expansions at U of W and RRC

There really was a bit of a boom for a while there. However, it does seem that there is much less on the boards right now even though our population is creeping up to that 750-800K mark... I suppose the last few years of economic instability put the brakes on all that action.

A lot of those projects are still sitting on the books in the form of the deficit. They were built under the premise that money is cheap and stimulus is required. It would be hard to argue that the city and province were flush with resources fresh off the heels of unprecedented economic growth.