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  #1001  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2016, 3:05 PM
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Knight Hospitaller Knight Hospitaller is offline
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I'm hoping for productive discussions that lead to sensible tweaks of an otherwise good plan - something that would preserve part of the Sansom buildings, yet maintain/increase the height. Please nothing shorter and stouter to placate NIMBYs (yet not in their best interest).
     
     
  #1002  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2016, 3:33 PM
McBane McBane is offline
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Originally Posted by Justin7 View Post
Really hope Southern Land Company sells the site and moves on. This property needs a quality builder who understands Philadelphia. They are out of their depth. http://southernland.com/community-developments/
Someone here asked about the community.... This is someone who unfortunately is representative of the community. It's sad that people feel this way.
     
     
  #1003  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2016, 3:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin7 View Post
Really hope Southern Land Company sells the site and moves on. This property needs a quality builder who understands Philadelphia. They are out of their depth. http://southernland.com/community-developments/
You don't really believe this.
     
     
  #1004  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2016, 3:52 PM
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Knight Hospitaller Knight Hospitaller is offline
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Originally Posted by boxbot View Post
You don't really believe this.
Trump Rittenhouse anyone?
     
     
  #1005  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2016, 4:11 PM
Justin7 Justin7 is offline
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Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000 View Post
not even going to get baited into this nonsense again. If SLC doesn't build here this is destined to be the next 8th and market. Will sit for years and years.
This location has nothing in common with 8th and Market. If a capable builder had control of the property you'd already see construction. If it is sold to a capable builder you'll see movement right away. It's too valuable to sit on.

Philly is in the middle of a boom and the most valuable property in the city is dormant. Think about how absurd that is. If Southern Land Company was up to the task there would already be a Walnut St. tower under half built. Instead, you're looking a boondoggle attempt to combine multiple properties currently containing historic buildings and spanning a street. It's a mess of a building with a nice looking tower that is almost certainly a bait and switch. I amazed that anyone thinks this is a good idea.

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Originally Posted by boxbot View Post
You don't really believe this.
Of course I do. Look at their portfolio. It's largely suburban and the one Philly project has a soul crushing street level. The fact that they want to demolish historic buildings for a driveway is not surprising. They have no experience building in a location with history. Care to point out one project they have done that suggests they are up to the task?

I know people will get upset and say this if somehow off-topic and it may even be deleted because it doesn't line up with the opinion of the mods, but it's not like there is anything else to discuss here.

And for the record, I'd love to see a tower on Walnut that is taller than the one proposed so don't assume I'm a NIMBY.
     
     
  #1006  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2016, 4:22 PM
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^^ To suggest that SLC is twiddling its thumbs is not supported by the facts. They've got solid plans and have been engaging stakeholders. Nobody was at all impressed by their earlier work outside of Philadelphia, but that doesn't mean that they don't have the brains and ability to expand beyond that (witness their University City project). Yes, bulldozing historically designated properties without more thought was pretty lame, but it seems that is now under discussion thanks to the CCRA committee. You can make points without going "ad hominem" on SLC.
     
     
  #1007  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2016, 5:37 PM
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Cro Burnham Cro Burnham is offline
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Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller View Post
Trump Rittenhouse anyone?
That would be YOOOOOJ!!!

Unfortunately, the man prefers his Happy Meals.


http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/gr....w529.h529.jpg

Sorry Wendy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin7 View Post
it may even be deleted because it doesn't line up with the opinion of the mods
Look, if my Wendy's posts don't get deleted (and they probably should), your post won't get deleted.
     
     
  #1008  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2016, 6:05 PM
br323206 br323206 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin7 View Post
This location has nothing in common with 8th and Market. If a capable builder had control of the property you'd already see construction. If it is sold to a capable builder you'll see movement right away. It's too valuable to sit on.

Philly is in the middle of a boom and the most valuable property in the city is dormant. Think about how absurd that is. If Southern Land Company was up to the task there would already be a Walnut St. tower under half built. Instead, you're looking a boondoggle attempt to combine multiple properties currently containing historic buildings and spanning a street. It's a mess of a building with a nice looking tower that is almost certainly a bait and switch. I amazed that anyone thinks this is a good idea.
They've owned the site for one year. No one could have had a building half built by now. Even if they had put forth a proposal that garnered zero neighborhood opposition (unlikely that any proposal would do that) they MIGHT have had time to get construction started by now, but still unlikely.
     
     
  #1009  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2016, 6:37 PM
1487 1487 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller View Post
^^ To suggest that SLC is twiddling its thumbs is not supported by the facts. They've got solid plans and have been engaging stakeholders. Nobody was at all impressed by their earlier work outside of Philadelphia, but that doesn't mean that they don't have the brains and ability to expand beyond that (witness their University City project). Yes, bulldozing historically designated properties without more thought was pretty lame, but it seems that is now under discussion thanks to the CCRA committee. You can make points without going "ad hominem" on SLC.
architects design buildings, not developers. The fact that their other buildings in other cities with a totally different context arent up to Rittenhouse standards doesn't prove they can't commission a nice building for this location.
     
     
  #1010  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2016, 8:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 1487 View Post
architects design buildings, not developers. The fact that their other buildings in other cities with a totally different context arent up to Rittenhouse standards doesn't prove they can't commission a nice building for this location.
Which is sort of my point.
     
     
  #1011  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2016, 5:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1487 View Post
architects design buildings, not developers. The fact that their other buildings in other cities with a totally different context arent up to Rittenhouse standards doesn't prove they can't commission a nice building for this location.
False. Architects might do the design work in the literal sense, but the client dictates the project starting with the mere selection of the architect. Developers rarely give architects free reign in design. I stand by Justin's comments. Looking at a portfolio certainly does give a sense of the quality of product that a developer is willing to pay for (architectural style, materials, etc.). Obviously things can change and SLC has clearly shown that they are willing to pursue something beyond their bread and butter. However, the proposed design is not quite up to the level worthy of such a premier site. The height doesn't bother me. It's encouraged. However, the demolition of historic properties for a poorly articulated bland tower with generic streetscape DOES bother me.

I am hopeful that my fellow neighbors will help improve this project through the stakeholders group. If not, I am fine with the property sitting vacant until a deserving project is proposed. The property has traded for significant funds which will ensure that something gets built when the timing is right.

And to the earlier comment that such views are "short sighted" - The same can be said about those who are so quick to support a project that demolishes our history and replaces it with a generic design barely worthy of Market Street. Those pesky height boners...
     
     
  #1012  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2016, 5:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
False. Architects might do the design work in the literal sense, but the client dictates the project starting with the mere selection of the architect. Developers rarely give architects free reign in design.
Your point has already been made in the past to that fellow. But a little reminder is good.
     
     
  #1013  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2016, 6:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
However, the demolition of historic properties for a poorly articulated bland tower with generic streetscape DOES bother me.

I am hopeful that my fellow neighbors will help improve this project through the stakeholders group. If not, I am fine with the property sitting vacant until a deserving project is proposed. The property has traded for significant funds which will ensure that something gets built when the timing is right.

And to the earlier comment that such views are "short sighted" - The same can be said about those who are so quick to support a project that demolishes our history and replaces it with a generic design barely worthy of Market Street. Those pesky height boners...
I agree. I think it is sneaky that SLC buys the lot knowing there are historically certified buildings and then tries to demo them for a driveway. I do not find that acceptable.
     
     
  #1014  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2016, 6:24 PM
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Look no further for the people holding back Philadelphia development lol. ^^

Last edited by jjv007; Mar 11, 2016 at 10:22 PM.
     
     
  #1015  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2016, 7:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jjv007 View Post
Look no further for the people holding back Philadelphia development back lol. ^^
Yep lol. Exactly.
     
     
  #1016  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2016, 7:38 PM
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Originally Posted by jjv007 View Post
Look no further for the people holding back Philadelphia development back lol. ^^
Horsepucky. It's a false dichotomy. It's not a black and white thing where you can only have development or preservation. A well thought out plan can and should do both. I don't know who SLC is meeting with behind the scenes or what kind of pushback they're getting, but if they want to build this tower they will be able to build this tower. Some of us would like to preserve some existing structures as part of that plan.
     
     
  #1017  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2016, 7:45 PM
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Knight Hospitaller Knight Hospitaller is offline
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Let's not "borrow trouble." This thing is still in process and it's a good sign that the demolition hearings have been postponed. I have every confidence that the committee (with Cecil Baker) will come up with some good suggestions that will work for SLC and CCRA.
     
     
  #1018  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2016, 8:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jjv007 View Post
Look no further for the people holding back Philadelphia development back lol. ^^
Typical philadelphian sentiment. We are not unique. Nimbys are everywhere. Try developing property in NYC or DC where there is a higher population of highly educated and wealthy residents. It can be just as mind numbing - if not worse.
     
     
  #1019  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2016, 8:34 PM
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Originally Posted by boxbot View Post
Horsepucky.
Awesome old school vocab, man.
     
     
  #1020  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2016, 8:50 PM
mmikeyphilly mmikeyphilly is offline
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Don't count on Donald Trump building ANYTHING in Philadelphia. He already got a dose of the "nimbys" here. He stated that Philadelphia is more than History, it's HISTORY, as far as I'm concerned" quoting Donald Trump. Not that he will be missed building here, personally. (Spoken as a nimby, lol)
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