Random Conversations

[Lakeofthewood]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

Dreamland is priceless. The guy who is the go between the politicians and the implementers is such a spin doctor and I feel sorry for the planner who wants to see her projects come to fruition while all around her is inertia and stagnation.

Hahah he absolutely kills me just because he's such a positive well-intentioned guy, but also clearly such an idiot. I haven't seen Season 3 yet since it's not on Netflix but I'm very excited for it.

[bless-u]

What is the current job market like in Ottawa? Do you find it easy or difficult to find a decent job in the city? The unemployment rate at 5.5% is quite low, but does the reality reflect that? What's your experience like?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by bless-u

What is the current job market like in Ottawa? Do you find it easy or difficult to find a decent job in the city? The unemployment rate at 5.5% is quite low, but does the reality reflect that? What's your experience like?

What type of job?

[bless-u]

Originally Posted by acottawa

What type of job?

Just jobs in general in both private and public sectors. What's your personal experience like? I am new to Ottawa and looking for work. It's been a month already and still not much progress. I just want to know what is the real situation like out there.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by bless-u

Just jobs in general in both private and public sectors. What's your personal experience like? I am new to Ottawa and looking for work. It's been a month already and still not much progress. I just want to know what is the real situation like out there.

What type of job?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by bless-u

Just jobs in general in both private and public sectors. What's your personal experience like? I am new to Ottawa and looking for work. It's been a month already and still not much progress. I just want to know what is the real situation like out there.

Well, public service hiring is complicated, most managers find it easier to try to hire someone already in the system, or a co-op student. Some workplaces make use of temp agencies, which sometimes is a way in.

[bless-u]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Well, public service hiring is complicated, most managers find it easier to try to hire someone already in the system, or a co-op student. Some workplaces make use of temp agencies, which sometimes is a way in.

I do find the system a bit complicated, but the majority of jobs in Ottawa come from the public sector. I suppose it is the reality most Ottawans need to deal with and find a way in somehow. Private sector jobs are mostly high tech and I.T. from what I've gathered so far. I hope it is not too difficult to find jobs outside these three areas. It does make one feel a bit helpless, especially for new comers to the city.

[eltodesukane]

Originally Posted by bless-u

I am new to Ottawa and looking for work. It's been a month already and still not much progress.

No surprise here. You would do much better in Toronto or the GTA.
Ottawa is a government city with government jobs.
Government jobs go first to other government employees or their family.
Any outsider will get the leftovers, if any at all.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

Government jobs go first to other government employees or their family.

Evidence?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by bless-u

I do find the system a bit complicated, but the majority of jobs in Ottawa come from the public sector. I suppose it is the reality most Ottawans need to deal with and find a way in somehow. Private sector jobs are mostly high tech and I.T. from what I've gathered so far. I hope it is not too difficult to find jobs outside these three areas. It does make one feel a bit helpless, especially for new comers to the city.

It might help people to offer advice if you were a little more specific about what you're looking for (retail, trades, clerical, policy, a specific profession, IT, marketing, political, etc).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Evidence?

Yeah, that may have been the case 50 years ago or so but not anymore AFAIK.

If anything I believe in many cases these days it might be *harder* to get a job if someone from your family already works for the organization you're applying to.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yeah, that may have been the case 50 years ago or so but not anymore AFAIK.

If anything I believe in many cases these days it might be *harder* to get a job if someone from your family already works for the organization you're applying to.

I have worked with enough children of senior officials that I would have a hard time believing it would it is harder to apply for a job.

At the same time, I don't think it is outright malfeasance. Government officials are likely to give good career advice to their children, likely to know who is hiring, their children are likely in Ottawa, etc.

I think part of the problem is that many departments have phased out national recruiting campaigns, so hires are increasingly people already in Ottawa who can take short term contracts as a way into the system.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I have worked with enough children of senior officials that I would have a hard time believing it would it is harder to apply for a job.

At the same time, I don't think it is outright malfeasance. Government officials are likely to give good career advice to their children, likely to know who is hiring, their children are likely in Ottawa, etc.

I think part of the problem is that many departments have phased out national recruiting campaigns, so hires are increasingly people already in Ottawa who can take short term contracts as a way into the system.

To me I think this would probably be the extent of "family connections" in the federal government.

And my sense is that it would be quite rare for the child of a senior government official to be working in the same department as one of their parents.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by Acajack

To me I think this would probably be the extent of "family connections" in the federal government.

And my sense is that it would be quite rare for the child of a senior government official to be working in the same department as one of their parents.

Maybe not the same department... but those "inside" would be able to explain the process of tailoring resumes, etc to meet the job requirement calculations.

The contracts I've done with the federal government would not have been possible without tremendous inside help.... whereas most of my contracts in the private sector have been much more on my own.

[Acajack]

Perhaps but none of this really screams "nepotism" to me...

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Perhaps but none of this really screams "nepotism" to me...

Doesn't really have to be "nepotism"... more like, "my kid's classmates mother works in Dept xyz...", so can she help navigate the system to get my child hired?

Bottom line is... I would expect it is *tremendously* difficult to break into the Federal government by randomly applying for posted jobs.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

Bottom line is... I would expect it is *tremendously* difficult to break into the Federal government by randomly applying for posted jobs.

I would agree with that, such postings are often a way to normalize someone already in the system. There are basically 5 ways in.

-Bulk recruiting campaign (such as post-secondary recruitment). As I said earlier, many departments have phased out or reduced this kind of recruiting
-Co-op student/intern
-Getting in on some sort of temp or short-term contract (this is where knowing someone really helps)
-Political staffer (although that is harder than it used to be)
-Some sort of exchange program with another organization

[bless-u]

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

No surprise here. You would do much better in Toronto or the GTA.
Ottawa is a government city with government jobs.
Government jobs go first to other government employees or their family.
Any outsider will get the leftovers, if any at all.

That doesn't sound good at all, nor fair. It sounds like favouritism to me. I hope it isn't really how the arrangement is, or many job seekers in Ottawa are in trouble.

The problem with Toronto is that it is utterly unaffordable these days. The sky high rent and house prices have thrown a lot of people off track. The incremental increase in wages simply can't catch up with the bubbling prices. According to a recent survey, one needs to make around $75,000 to $80,000 in TO in order to have a decent life, while more than 50% of Torontonians make around $35,000 on average. Many of them are living on a hand-to-mouth existence with huge debt and credit card loan on their shoulders even when they have a decent job. Many home owners are living on their credit lines and treating their homes like ATM machines.

I am not sure if I'd be really better off, or could actually survive, in that kind of environment where TO finds itself in currently. It's true that job opportunity is greater in TO, but it doesn't help when one can't afford to live there with only a meagre pay check. However, I understand how, on surface, staying in TO would be a better choice.

[Acajack]

What I am reading definitely does not match my observations and experiences.

Just like all of us I have a bunch of people who work for the federal government in my entourage (family and friends), and upwards of 90% of them are not the kids of public servants themselves. (Actually, I am trying to think but I don't know anyone whose parents was an EX for example and who is working for the public service at the moment.) At the most I know a few people whose father was in DND or the RCMP and they are in the regular public service, but I am not even sure that that counts for this discussion.

In fact, in my entourage (mostly people in their 40s) I do have friends whose parents were federal bigwigs and ironically none of them are working in the public service today.

Almost all of the people I know in the public service got in around 20 years ago via external competitions (eg the jobs.gc.ca website) or they tested the waters via contracts, temp help agencies, "casual" positions and eventually got into permanent jobs. In some of these cases they did get their foot in the door due to contacts but rarely if ever due to family ties - usually it's their personal networks: university friends, old work colleagues, neighbours, fellow hockey dads or dance moms...

[bless-u]

Originally Posted by acottawa

It might help people to offer advice if you were a little more specific about what you're looking for (retail, trades, clerical, policy, a specific profession, IT, marketing, political, etc).

I am in design and construction but not trades. Job opportunities for my field are mostly in private sector. It does pose a great challenge in finding a job here in Ottawa as I now realize. It is something I must overcome.