Dynamic Ottawa. What would it take?

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I question the very idea that a "central" park is needed or desireable, or that Ottawa suffers from any shortage of parks. It really, genuinely, honest-to-godly baffles me, the mindset that is absolute and unquestionable orthodoxy in Ottawa, that we lack parks and that various of our urban problems could be solved by just making more of them.

Agreed. Ottawa has a ton of parks and adding more of them won't make the city more 'exciting'. People don't move to cities for parks.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

As much as it pains me to say it, Winterlude has become a pathetic excuse for a winter carnival.

Winter carnivals are withering almost everywhere in Canada, even the cities and towns and rural areas that have more reliably wintery winters than Ottawa.

Depending on the pandemic situation in the coming winter, this could be an excuse to re-invent them as a way to get people doing activities outside, in a safe and social way, that helps with both commerce and pandemic mitigation.

If the bar and restaurant industry wants to make it through to a vaccine or whatever else will get us back to "normal", they have to be considering ways of winterizing their industry, and quick.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Have you ever been to Ottawa?



Have you ever seen a map of Ottawa?

Why are so many people in Ottawa convinced that (a) Ottawa is lacking in parks, and (b) parks are the key to make a city more "dynamic/vibrant/exciting", etc.?

Yes, I know Ottawa very well and lived there 4 years while going to Carleton.

I love Ottawa and I know it has many nice parks but no real significant one downtown. If you were to ask the average person what Ottawa's main park is you would probably get 100 different answers.

Large parks right downtown are not just a pleasant amenity but can also be the focal point of the arts, festivals, and community events. Successful downtown parks are far more than just green spaces. In many cities their downtown park is similar to a city plaza or public square....... a central point where the city meets.

Unfortunately Canada, which has many beautiful city parks, has very few cities with a downtown/meeting place park. It's quite odd as few have a true and great downtown square or plaza. Ottawa being a planned city built on gobs of government largess would seem a natural but it is sadly lacking.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by acottawa

But most of the parks in central Ottawa are tiny, at best suitable for neighborhood use.

The two biggest "civic" parks in central Ottawa (not even counting the Parliamentary lawn) are Major's Hill and Confederation... both of which are comparable in size, if not larger than, urban places like Dorchester Square - Place du Canada in Montreal, or Nathan Phillips Square in Toronto.

If anything, larger-sized parks in a central setting only serve to deaden the urban fabric, especially considering that the main way of mitigating that effect - avoiding "vacuums" on the edges - is a subject of shock and horror in Ottawa.

Even much smaller cities like Waterloo or Kingston have a larger park in the city centre.

Kingston's large park is comparable in size to the large ones in central Ottawa. Waterloo's has waterside functions that in Ottawa are served by the very precious and nationally-significant strips of grass along the canal and riverbanks.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Shades of Jean Chrétien ....

To be fair, Marcel Beaudry.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Yes, I know Ottawa very well and lived there 4 years while going to Carleton.

I love Ottawa and I know it has many nice parks but no real significant one downtown. If you were to ask the average person what Ottawa's main park is you would probably get 100 different answers.

Large parks right downtown are not just a pleasant amenity but can also be the focal point of the arts, festivals, and community events. Successful downtown parks are far more than just green spaces.

As I said in a post earlier today, I doubt a new large park in central Ottawa would be the focus of any type of sustained "animation". If we go by past and present experience.

There are lots of spaces both green and hard surfaced that are available right now with nothing going on in them 99% of the time.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by harls

I've had a Scottish friend remark, "Ah.. moderately-sized Ben."

Isn't the Peace Tower taller?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Agreed. Ottawa has a ton of parks and adding more of them won't make the city more 'exciting'. People don't move to cities for parks.

Well, I'd say that some people do. But for those people, I'd say even without adding any greenspace, Ottawa (+ Gatineau) has got a pretty advantageous position on that front.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Isn't the Peace Tower taller?

By two metres. I compared pictures earlier today and I actually do find the two towers look quite similar.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I love Ottawa and I know it has many nice parks but no real significant one downtown.

Confederation.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I love Ottawa and I know it has many nice parks but no real significant one downtown. If you were to ask the average person what Ottawa's main park is you would probably get 100 different answers.

I'd consider that a feature, not a bug.

Large parks right downtown are not just a pleasant amenity but can also be the focal point of the arts, festivals, and community events. Successful downtown parks are far more than just green spaces. In many cities their downtown park is similar to a city plaza or public square....... a central point where the city meets.

If that's what we want, we can do it with one of the existing underused spaces, which are, contrary to popular belief, not small.

Unfortunately Canada, which has many beautiful city parks, has very few cities with a downtown/meeting place park. It's quite odd as few have a true and great downtown square or plaza. Ottawa being a planned city built on gobs of government largess would seem a natural but it is sadly lacking.

"Planned city"? Only to the extent that all but one or two major cities in Canada are "planned"; the central form of Ottawa was laid out before it was the capital. This ain't Brasilia or Canberra, and thank goodness.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Winter carnivals are withering almost everywhere in Canada, even the cities and towns and rural areas that have more reliably wintery winters than Ottawa.

Depending on the pandemic situation in the coming winter, this could be an excuse to re-invent them as a way to get people doing activities outside, in a safe and social way, that helps with both commerce and pandemic mitigation.

If the bar and restaurant industry wants to make it through to a vaccine or whatever else will get us back to "normal", they have to be considering ways of winterizing their industry, and quick.

There are all good points, though on the topic of winter carnivals there are cities around the world whose winters aren't as cold or snowy as Ottawa's and still have winter festivals. A lot of them are melt-proofed or aren't even dependent on cold and snow at all. I think the future for Winterlude lies in a reorientation towards something of that nature.

In that, if it's cold, we're good. And if it's mild, we're good too.

I know that the government and organizers have been thinking about this already, but there doesn't appear to be much in the way of forward-looking changes thus far.

[ssiguy]

I do agree that Ottawa could {and should} build a major downtown plaza/square so the city has a true meeting place. They can be wonderful places that unite a city and and be a centre for the arts, culture, festivals, and events. As European cities clearly show, great downtown public square/plazas/parks can truly be "the heart" of a city.

I think it would do wonders for Ottawa and most of our cities where the vast majority of them have none.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Agreed. Ottawa has a ton of parks and adding more of them won't make the city more 'exciting'. People don't move to cities for parks.

If I talk to someone about moving to Ottawa, parks almost always comes up. The impact of the canal and rivers and green space along them should not be understated.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Catenary

If I talk to someone about moving to Ottawa, parks almost always comes up. The impact of the canal and rivers and green space along them should not be understated.

Which is great and which means we don't need more parks. Ottawa's great in that is already has a good stable of greenspace but to think that adding more will create more desire for people to move here is probably wrong. Ottawa lacks fun indoor things to do, and part of this is due to the people who make up the majority of Ottawa's current population.

For me, if people are asking about moving to a city they're generally asking about job opportunities, affordability, and nearby amenities. Parks and greenspace may be in that conversation but it's hardly ever, if ever, the driving factor. Ottawa has enough greenspace as is.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

The two biggest "civic" parks in central Ottawa (not even counting the Parliamentary lawn) are Major's Hill and Confederation... both of which are comparable in size, if not larger than, urban places like Dorchester Square - Place du Canada in Montreal, or Nathan Phillips Square in Toronto.

If anything, larger-sized parks in a central setting only serve to deaden the urban fabric, especially considering that the main way of mitigating that effect - avoiding "vacuums" on the edges - is a subject of shock and horror in Ottawa.



Kingston's large park is comparable in size to the large ones in central Ottawa. Waterloo's has waterside functions that in Ottawa are served by the very precious and nationally-significant strips of grass along the canal and riverbanks.

A square or small park is nice but it supports limited activity. Downtown parks in Waterloo, Kingston, New York, Montreal, Vancouver, Moscow, support a range of activities - they don’t close for two weeks for the Jazz Festival.

[Aylmer]

Ottawa can do a much better job of improving our existing green spaces. All too often, they're tragically disconnected from their surroundings.

Think of Confederation: when you really think about it, it's severed on all sides by roads. Getting to the park means crossing at minimum 5 lanes of 50-70 km/h traffic. Even towards the canal, it has basically no waterfront edge - it just sorta peters out at the driveway with only a sad little ramp leading even near the canal. And forget about any links to the NAC.

Confederation Park could be so much more than it is now. Imagine an NAC entrance to the north crossing under Mackenzie King - In a post-covid world, the NAC could even use the park for outdoor concerts and performances. To the west, Elgin can be tamed to allow for easy crossing. To the south, Laurier can be tamed to allow Confederation, Marion Dewar, and Cartier Square to act as one single Central Park. To the east, remove the QED stub and allow the park to slope towards an waterfront edge along the canal.

Many of our parks and green spaces are like this. We'll find that we don't actually want for quantity - we're lacking quality. Thankfully, it's a lot easier to calm traffic on surrounding streets than it is to demolish a downtown block for a new park.

[lrt's friend]

Any city that has a lively downtown has made it easily accessible by public transit.

I remember visiting Gothenburg Sweden, not a huge city, but transit including regional trains all fed into downtown. The result was that downtown was full of people and full of business.

You can also look at cities like Toronto, Montreal and New York. Transit lines feed in from all over.

We kid ourselves in thinking that a single rail line will accomplish this. As long as we think one rail line is enough, business will continue to be drained to the bland suburbs and the auto culture will be the only way forward to support it.

If we want downtown to be the heart-throb of our city, we need to build the infrastructure to support it, and then build amenities downtown.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by FutureWickedCity

A few ideas..

More clubs/music venues for sure. Maybe some on the top floors of high rise ok buildings.

One thing I would love to see is a winter garden, a big indoor park with a greenhouse roof. The roof of Rideau Centre would be ideal. A place to escape the winter.

If DND fully withdraws from their downtown former HQ, I would love to see that site transformed into a huge public space akin to the RA center but with other amenities and possibly residential as well.

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Ottawa can do a much better job of improving our existing green spaces. All too often, they're tragically disconnected from their surroundings.

Think of Confederation: when you really think about it, it's severed on all sides by roads. Getting to the park means crossing at minimum 5 lanes of 50-70 km/h traffic. Even towards the canal, it has basically no waterfront edge - it just sorta peters out at the driveway with only a sad little ramp leading even near the canal. And forget about any links to the NAC.

Confederation Park could be so much more than it is now. Imagine an NAC entrance to the north crossing under Mackenzie King - In a post-covid world, the NAC could even use the park for outdoor concerts and performances. To the west, Elgin can be tamed to allow for easy crossing. To the south, Laurier can be tamed to allow Confederation, Marion Dewar, and Cartier Square to act as one single Central Park. To the east, remove the QED stub and allow the park to slope towards an waterfront edge along the canal.

Many of our parks and green spaces are like this. We'll find that we don't actually want for quantity - we're lacking quality. Thankfully, it's a lot easier to calm traffic on surrounding streets than it is to demolish a downtown block for a new park.

Re Confederation Square/Park, in my experience, traffic has been at 0km/h when I’ve crossed the street to get to either ....

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I do agree that Ottawa could {and should} build a major downtown plaza/square so the city has a true meeting place.

Parliament Hill does this quite well. Work with the NCC to better integrate that space into the city's cultural life.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Any city that has a lively downtown has made it easily accessible by public transit.

That's a byproduct of demand to access the core, not the cause of a lively downtown. Lively downtowns are usually a product of walkable cores with lots of amenities. Not just transit to get there.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We kid ourselves in thinking that a single rail line will accomplish this. As long as we think one rail line is enough, business will continue to be drained to the bland suburbs and the auto culture will be the only way forward to support it.

You could build a hundred rail lines to the downtown core and it won't make it more lively without giving people an actual reason to go downtown.