Pre, Primary and Secondary Education

[Louis-Riel]

There is an attempt by parents in the Kichissippi and Somerset Wards to get a new French-language high school built in the near west end. There is a desperate need for this as the existing high schools are both far away and already full. There have been some discussions with the government regarding placing it at Tunney's, even suggesting renting some existing space while waiting for a permanent solution. Lebreton has also been mentioned as a possibility.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Louis-Riel

There is an attempt by parents in the Kichissippi and Somerset Wards to get a new French-language high school built in the near west end. There is a desperate need for this as the existing high schools are both far away and already full. There have been some discussions with the government regarding placing it at Tunney's, even suggesting renting some existing space while waiting for a permanent solution. Lebreton has also been mentioned as a possibility.

The French school boards are having a lot of trouble finding space. I know a new elementary school is planned for Gladstone Village. They've been trying to get Rideau High School and Ottawa Tech from the English Boards, but no luck. Then you have the old Ottawa District School Board building on Gilmour owned by Aschroft. Yet another heritage building Ashcroft is sitting on, patiently waiting for it to fall down.

Province should own the schools and transfer them between School Boards when needed. The current system where certain Boards collect empty buildings, while other struggle to find new space is not sustainable.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The French school boards are having a lot of trouble finding space. I know a new elementary school is planned for Gladstone Village. They've been trying to get Rideau High School and Ottawa Tech from the English Boards, but no luck. Then you have the old Ottawa District School Board building on Gilmour owned by Aschroft. Yet another heritage building Ashcroft is sitting on, patiently waiting for it to fall down.

Province should own the schools and transfer them between School Boards when needed. The current system where certain Boards collect empty buildings, while other struggle to find new space is not sustainable.

Better yet, the province should force the 4 school boards to share facilities and resources. Not only will it bring schools closer to where students live, drastically reducing the amount of bussing required, but it would help tear down the some of the walls in our community. Why is it considered acceptable to segregate our students based on language and religion? What is next? Back school boards?

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by Louis-Riel

There is an attempt by parents in the Kichissippi and Somerset Wards to get a new French-language high school built in the near west end. There is a desperate need for this as the existing high schools are both far away and already full. There have been some discussions with the government regarding placing it at Tunney's, even suggesting renting some existing space while waiting for a permanent solution. Lebreton has also been mentioned as a possibility.

Too bad ES Champlain moved away from Lanark Ave in 1992, then closed a few years later... bet they wish they had kept the building now.

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Better yet, the province should force the 4 school boards to share facilities and resources. Not only will it bring schools closer to where students live, drastically reducing the amount of bussing required, but it would help tear down the some of the walls in our community. Why is it considered acceptable to segregate our students based on language and religion? What is next? Back school boards?

100% there should not be a Catholic school board anymore. As those walls are both social, language and economic....

And as for a French one the English public board is slowly but surely moving to integrate French throughout its programming. UCDSB currently runs immersion programs in specific public schools through its area.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

100% there should not be a Catholic school board anymore. As those walls are both social, language and economic....

And as for a French one the English public board is slowly but surely moving to integrate French throughout its programming. UCDSB currently runs immersion programs in specific public schools through its area.

Are the Catholic Boards even al that Catholic anymore? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems they are only Catholic in name nowadays, and not in practice.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Are the Catholic Boards even al that Catholic anymore? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems they are only Catholic in name nowadays, and not in practice.

All the more reason to get rid of them and just have one school board. It would be much more efficient for school bussing.

A lot of parents put their kids in the Catholic schools as they are perceived to have 'better discipline' and then are amazed that there are RE classes. The Catholic schools don't tend to have much in the way of capability for the 'special needs' and 'behavioural classes' so those kids are encouraged to go to the public school board system.

Once again William of Orange and I are aligned in our opinions.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

All the more reason to get rid of them and just have one school board. It would be much more efficient for school bussing.

A lot of parents put their kids in the Catholic schools as they are perceived to have 'better discipline' and then are amazed that there are RE classes. The Catholic schools don't tend to have much in the way of capability for the 'special needs' and 'behavioural classes' so those kids are encouraged to go to the public school board system.

Once again William of Orange and I are aligned in our opinions.

Sure, that's reasonable. I would still separate English and French as it would complicate logistics quite a bit.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

All the more reason to get rid of them and just have one school board. It would be much more efficient for school bussing.

A lot of parents put their kids in the Catholic schools as they are perceived to have 'better discipline' and then are amazed that there are RE classes. The Catholic schools don't tend to have much in the way of capability for the 'special needs' and 'behavioural classes' so those kids are encouraged to go to the public school board system.

Busing is already shared between all 4 boards, so I don’t think there are many efficiencies to be had there.

Not sure about your comment that Catholic schools don’t have capability for behavioural needs. They certainly have the same resources, and it often depends on the school. In our neighbourhood it’s the opposite - the special needs kids mostly end up at the Catholic school, which has better resources and more focus on special needs than the public schools.

I see absolutely no advantage in combining English and French boards, unless we want to further diminish French in Ontario. I also like the idea of some competition between boards and choices within the public system.

[Acajack]

Francophone schools cannot be eliminated or merged with anglophone schools as separate French-language (French first, not immersion) schools are guaranteed in the Constitution.

This includes separate boards to administrate them and also probably separate services like transportation. (Combining buses has been a political issue in New Brunswick for example.)

The Catholic schools could be eliminated fairly easily but so far there has not been the political appetite in Ontario to do so. Both Quebec and Newfoundland had a similar constitutional requirement but changed it some years ago to eliminate publicly-funded religious schools.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by phil235

I see absolutely no advantage in combining English and French boards, unless we want to further diminish French in Ontario.

Originally Posted by Acajack

Francophone schools cannot be eliminated or merged with anglophone schools as separate French-language (French first, not immersion) schools are guaranteed in the Constitution.

As a Francophone, I'm annoyed at myself for forgetting to mention the above.

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by phil235

Busing is already shared between all 4 boards, so I don’t think there are many efficiencies to be had there.

Not sure about your comment that Catholic schools don’t have capability for behavioural needs. They certainly have the same resources, and it often depends on the school. In our neighbourhood it’s the opposite - the special needs kids mostly end up at the Catholic school, which has better resources and more focus on special needs than the public schools.

I see absolutely no advantage in combining English and French boards, unless we want to further diminish French in Ontario. I also like the idea of some competition between boards and choices within the public system.

1) Busing is not shared everywhere 2) schools aren't local so more buses are required 3) this issue isn't limited to just cities like Toronto and Ottawa....

Rarely do Catholic schools have the resources for special needs and they are likely to suggest students find other schools for more things than just that. Like in ex drug use (pot), teen pregnancy, fighting and etc....

Secondly, the only real competition there is between boards is who can had built the newest school in the area. Further wasting resources that could be used to spread schools out and put them within walking distance of more homes.....

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by phil235

Busing is already shared between all 4 boards, so I don’t think there are many efficiencies to be had there.

Bussing may be shared, but with the appropriate school being, on average, twice as far away, far more students need to be bussed. It doesn't make sense having kids living across the street for a school, but because it isn't their school, they have to take a bus. I grew up in BC, and unless you lived in a rural area (i.e farm), you were within easy waling distance of your elementary school.

Originally Posted by phil235

Not sure about your comment that Catholic schools don’t have capability for behavioural needs. They certainly have the same resources, and it often depends on the school. In our neighbourhood it’s the opposite - the special needs kids mostly end up at the Catholic school, which has better resources and more focus on special needs than the public schools.

Agreed. In many cases they have better resources for special needs students as they get money from both the province and the church.

Originally Posted by phil235

I see absolutely no advantage in combining English and French boards, unless we want to further diminish French in Ontario. I also like the idea of some competition between boards and choices within the public system.

Reread my post. I didn't say combine the boards, I said "share facilities and resources" (including schools). Does the constitution say that French people must be educated in different buildings than English people? By all means have different classes, but why do they need to have their own buildings? Should French and English people also have separate washrooms?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Agreed. In many cases they have better resources for special needs students as they get money from both the province and the church.

I went to Ontario Catholic schools myself and have relatives who still work there and nephews and nieces who go there - never heard of the Catholic church providing extra funding to these schools.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Reread my post. I didn't say combine the boards, I said "share facilities and resources" (including schools). Does the constitution say that French people must be educated in different buildings than English people? By all means have different classes, but why do they need to have their own buildings? Should French and English people also have separate washrooms?

Pretty sure they are required to have their own buildings. Is it a constitutional requirement? I dunno but starting in the 1980s francophone schools started getting their own buildings as often they were housed in shitty sections or annexes of anglophone schools. I attended one school that was like that.

In a minority setting it's also very challenging to get many of the students to speak French naturally and so that's why they want every part of the school experience to be French immersive, and yes this even includes stuff like the school bus trip.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

Rarely do Catholic schools have the resources for special needs and they are likely to suggest students find other schools for more things than just that. Like in ex drug use (pot), teen pregnancy, fighting and etc....

Do you have any proof of this? My niece is on the spectrum and my sister-in-law investigated both the public and catholic schools, and the local catholic school had much better resources to support her than the public school. Things can vary from school to school, but you can't make a blanket statement that the public board is superior. I have heard similar stories from other parents.

There are other ways that the Catholic schools are inferior. Since all students are required to take religion every year up to and including grade 12, students can't take as many electives in high school, meaning they don't offer as wide a variety of elective courses to their students as a public school of similar size.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

1) Busing is not shared everywhere 2) schools aren't local so more buses are required 3) this issue isn't limited to just cities like Toronto and Ottawa....

Rarely do Catholic schools have the resources for special needs and they are likely to suggest students find other schools for more things than just that. Like in ex drug use (pot), teen pregnancy, fighting and etc....

Secondly, the only real competition there is between boards is who can had built the newest school in the area. Further wasting resources that could be used to spread schools out and put them within walking distance of more homes.....

Maybe busing isn't shared everywhere, but it is in the major population centres where the majority of the students live. It would be minor efficiencies at best.

Not sure what your point 2) means. I guess in a world where every kid goes to the closest school there would be efficiencies, but that isn't the reality. With staggered school start times and shared buses it is pretty easy to optimize, so I doubt the savings are substantial. Also, with multiple boards, you are more likely to have multiple school choices right within the neighbourhood.

Your point on Catholic schools not having the resources for special needs or suggesting students find other schools is incorrect. Students regularly move in both directions because of particular needs.

Also disagree on your last point. Parents choose schools for all sorts of reasons beyond who has the newest facility. Academic ratings, resources for their kids' particular needs, school size, which school they feed, special programs etc. As for French, having multiple boards likely gives kids more options nearby - full French, immersion, early and late French. It's not obvious to me that multiple boards results in more travel.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In a minority setting it's also very challenging to get many of the students to speak French naturally and so that's why they want every part of the school experience to be French immersive, and yes this even includes stuff like the school bus trip.

I agree with this. Busing might be negotiable, but putting French students in an English school building virtually guarantees that the common language will be English and the French environment would be lost.

[Acajack]

The francophone Catholic and francophone public boards share busing I am almost positive. There is something called the "consortium de transport" that you hear about on the radio when there is a snowstorm.

I don't think they share with the anglo boards though, for reasons I mentioned above.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The francophone Catholic and francophone public boards share busing I am almost positive. There is something called the "consortium de transport" that you hear about on the radio when there is a snowstorm.

I don't think they share with the anglo boards though, for reasons I mentioned above.

You're right. OSTA is only for the English public and English Catholic schools.