Millennials are flocking to America's biggest cities

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

All hail the almighty CITY NEIGHBORHOOD!

*small voice*

and the pre-war suburb that's reasonable.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i'm 42 and i have two kids and i enjoy doing those things too.

as do, apparently, all of my 40-something neighbors with kids.




All hail the almighty CITY NEIGHBORHOOD!

You'll find outliers in every situation.

Generally speaking, people in their 30s, evolve from what they were doing when they were 21-23 years old. People in their 40s evolve from their early 30s and so on and so forth.

What seems really cool to a 23 year old, probably won't seem super cool when they're 40 and that's natural and that's why we see and can predict general trends and behavior.

I'm sure your life and how you value your free time has changed with a wife and kid than it did when you were 21 - or at least I hope it would.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

I'm sure your life and how you value your free time has changed with a wife and kid than it did when you were 21 - or at least I hope it would.

of course many aspects of my life have changed since having kids (duh!).

but the value i place on urban living has not changed.

and i doubt it ever will.

that was my point.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

You'll find outliers in every situation.

Generally speaking, people in their 30s, evolve from what they were doing when they were 21-23 years old. People in their 40s evolve from their early 30s and so on and so forth.

What seems really cool to a 23 year old, probably won't seem super cool when they're 40 and that's natural and that's why we see and can predict general trends and behavior.

I'm sure your life and how you value your free time has changed with a wife and kid than it did when you were 21 - or at least I hope it would.

as i just said in a different thread, it's all about local conditions. i live in a suburban county that was basically built out by 1970, the population has hovered at around 1 million since then. the city that it surrounds was effectively built out by 1940. that's a lot of old stuff. its reasonable to presume that a lot of people live in places that are town or city-like, with lots of little business districts with bars/coffee shops/etc with lots of middle class people with school aged children who frequent those places (too many kids in bars and breweries these days if you ask me ha ha!)

it has little to do with free time, marriage status, it's just the way it is.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

of course many aspects of my life have changed since having kids (duh!).

but the value i place on urban living has not changed.

and i doubt it ever will.

Frankly, there's absolutely nothing wrong with raising kids in a very urban environment.
I guess your children will even be all the more educated, experienced and better off since they'll have grown up over your Chicago's central area.

Large cities are benefiting the most from the global market economy, then education is more easily accessible in this type of environment.

It's an old social trend anyway. I think it's been observed in a country like the UK since the 19th century.
Nothing new "sous le soleil".

[Centropolis]

a big trend that i've noticed, is an emulation of urban and sub-urban lifestyles in outer suburbia....lots of strip mall breweries, higher quality restaurants with adults bringing kids, etc, except it's 100% (or close) auto-oriented with far less (basically none) walk-time. it's that walk-time that i really enjoy.

although i live on the screaming fringe of the pre-war grid i consider it a good weekend if my car doesn't move, yet i continue on with my life.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i'm 42 and i have two kids and i enjoy doing those things too.

I'm 45, same here...

[Sun Belt]

40 somethings are flocking to America's biggest cities and dragging their kids along for the ride.

Whether you have plans or not at the age of 23 to live in the suburbs, it happens to most of us, whether we like it or not.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

Whether you have plans or not at the age of 23 to live in the suburbs, it happens to most of us, whether we like it or not.

but it doesn't have to. you always have a choice. everyone does.

for 15 years i had to listen to the "just wait 'til you have kids, you'll be out in the burbs too" goofballs on this forum.

then i actually had kids, and for some mysterious reason, i wasn't magically transported out to schaumburg against my will.

many young(ish) urbanites do move out to the burbs when they start having children, but many don't.



if PhilliesPhan is being truthful when he says that he never intends to live in the burbs, even if/when he has kids, then that might just be exactly what he does.

millions of people are raising their families in US central cities right now at this very moment. it's not some impossible herculean task.

sure, we're certainly not the majority, but it's not just like 5 or 6 people on some super-obscure internet nerd forum.

i implore you to come visit my city neighborhood around 3:30pm on a typical school day.

but maybe not, your head packed full of preconceived notions might explode.

[Centropolis]

if i have kids, i'll probably move to a slightly more urban, walkable neighborhood, with better public schools. i moved a (tiny) bit further out than i would have otherwise due to my love of modern architecture.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

but it doesn't have to. you always have a choice. everyone does.

But you moved to more suburban surroundings following kids. You actually fit the stereotype, it's just you're retaining some degree of urbanism, unlike most households.

You were in the very heart of the city, then you moved up to the lakeshore areas, then out closer to the bungalow belt. Your lifestyle adjusted as your family changed.

It's very difficult to retain the same type of urban lifestyle with kids, especially multiple kids, unless you're fabulously wealthy.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

but it doesn't have to. you always have a choice. everyone does.

for 15 years i had to listen to the "just wait 'til you have kids, you'll be out in the burbs too" goofballs on this forum.

then i actually had kids, and for some mysterious reason, i wasn't magically transported out to schaumburg against my will.

many young(ish) urbanites do move out to the burbs when they start having children, but many don't.



if PhilliesPhan is being truthful when he says that he never intends to live in the burbs, even if/when he has kids, then that might just be exactly what he does.

millions of people are raising their families in US central cities right now at this very moment. it's not some impossible herculean task.

sure, we're certainly not the majority, but it's not just like 5 or 6 people on some super-obscure internet nerd forum.

i implore you to come visits my city neighborhood around 3:30pm on a typical school day.

but maybe not, your head packed full of preconceived notions might explode.

Again, your unique situation does indeed happen and for some, it works and nobody is saying it can't work for some. For most others it is not a realistic scenario for all the reasons we have covered in depth in so many other discussions.

It's not the norm, otherwise, we wouldn't have extensive suburbs that represent 75-90% of metropolitan areas.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

40 somethings are flocking to America's biggest cities and dragging their kids along for the ride.

Whether you have plans or not at the age of 23 to live in the suburbs, it happens to most of us, whether we like it or not.

I've literally heard this for decades. Logan Square, heart of millennial Chicago, is crawling with young families and strollers now. My wife and I are 30 (I consider that about peak Millennial) and probably going to start a family soon and have planned out how we are going to do that in the city. We will stay in our duplex apartment for the first kid going on second and then planning to grab a bungalow or four square in Portage Park if we don't just deconvert our two flat to a SFH.

This isn't impossible and frankly I feel like the notion of having to raise kids in the suburbs is classist verging on racist. The fact is you don't "have to move to the suburbs when you have kids" if you are a Mexican American family or African American family. The norm for those groups is to raise their family in the city. I see large Latino families all over the place and none of them have a trouble raising kids here. The notion that you need to move to the burbs to raise kids is very much the perspective of a Lilly white group of privileged Americans who built the suburbs in a fit of racism in the first place. Many of their own parents and grandparents were raised in the city themselves, so you know it's not an impossibly and frankly it is probably the reality of the majority of childhoods in the US.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Crawford

But you moved to more suburban surroundings following kids. You actually fit the stereotype, it's just you're retaining some degree of urbanism, unlike most households.

You were in the very heart of the city, then you moved up to the lakeshore areas, then out closer to the bungalow belt. Your lifestyle adjusted as your family changed.

It's very difficult to retain the same type of urban lifestyle with kids, especially multiple kids, unless you're fabulously wealthy.

we actually moved closer to downtown when we went from edgewater to lincoln square. (7.8 miles vs. 6.6 miles), but it was mostly lateral move.

however, since living in a couple of urban northside neighborhoods, my lifestyle is actually more urban in some respects than it was when i lived in marina city. downtown chicago is VERY urban from a "big tall skyscrapers surrounding you" perspective, but the neighborhoods actually work better for some aspects for day-to-day urban functionality.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

Again, your unique situation does indeed happen and for some, it works and nobody is saying it can't work for some.

but that's just it, my situation isn't unique at all.

there are literally tens of thousands of families with young children surrounding me doing the exact same thing i'm doing.

are a lot more americans raising their kids in the burbs vs. the city? yes, and i even directly said as much, but raising kids in the city is not something that only 1% of families do. it's not nearly as rare or "unique" as you imagine.

anyone could choose to do what i did. PhilliesPhan might be one of them.

[JManc]

A lot of it is cost, rather than people seeking more of a suburban existence. People once "grew" out of the city once they reached a certain stage or had kids but that's changing. My wife and I are looking at buying a place closer in town or keeping our house and buying a condo in New Orleans's French Quarter. We want that urban experience and many do. It's just doesn't come cheap anymore.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

I've literally heard this for decades. Logan Square, heart of millennial Chicago, is crawling with young families and strollers now.

Right back atcha with the

How many times have I told you that the presence of strollers in the city is meaningless, and that strollers have been seen on city streets for decades? It's only when you see kids--school age kids--kids who are 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, etc etc that something has significantly changed. Having said that:

This isn't impossible and frankly I feel like the notion of having to raise kids in the suburbs is classist verging on racist. The fact is you don't "have to move to the suburbs when you have kids" if you are a Mexican American family or African American family. The norm for those groups is to raise their family in the city. I see large Latino families all over the place and none of them have a trouble raising kids here. The notion that you need to move to the burbs to raise kids is very much the perspective of a Lilly white group of privileged Americans who built the suburbs in a fit of racism in the first place. Many of their own parents and grandparents were raised in the city themselves, so you know it's not an impossibly and frankly it is probably the reality of the majority of childhoods in the US.

I don't disagree with many of your points, and I applaud people who are trying to make it work and raise their families in the city. I really mean that.

But just because you move to the burbs doesn't make you racist. There are tons, tons, tons of non-white people in the burbs--hell, most nonwhites live in the suburbs today. And it's kind of silly to label them racists.

Actually, I take that back. We as a society just keep calling eachother racist all the time--it's reached a point where it means nothing any more. Fuck it, we're all racists. I'm a racist, you're a racist, we're all racist. Just deal with it and move on, I guess

[Centropolis]

i guess this is suburbia, but the "mcmansion in a tiny(er) package" is blowing up the inner suburbs of many cities. everyone wants 3-4 bed 2 bath new construction closer in now, millennials seem to be "backing towards" cities as fast as anything else at this point it seems.

this is what is happening in my area (i know that most of you consider this full on suburbia and i do too but it's largely a pre-war context in any case):

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6603...7i13312!8i6656

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

we actually moved closer to downtown when we went from edgewater to lincoln square. (7.8 miles vs. 6.6 miles), but it was mostly lateral move.

Edgewater is much more urban than Lincoln Square. The issue is relative urbanity, not distance from a city center.

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

however, since living in a couple of urban northside neighborhoods, my lifestyle is actually more urban in some respects than it was when i lived in marina city.

How is Lincoln Square objectively more urban than the Loop/Near North Side?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

this is what is happening in my area (i know that most of you consider this full on suburbia and i do too but it's largely a pre-war context in any case):

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6603...7i13312!8i6656

This, to me, is full-on suburbia. I agree this typology is much more popular for families with kids than a few decades ago, when it was mostly old fogeys, but I wouldn't go so far to say this is "embracing urbanity".

I don't think this lifestyle would be that different than someone living in outer sprawl; it's more that the aesthetics are nicer, restaurants better, fewer rednecks, and shorter commute.