Houston now No. 5 in population, overtakes Philadelphia

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Owlhorn

If you live in a city that grew before 1900, I want to know what original idea or new thing your city has to done beyond its 20th century reputation that gives anyone the right to come on here and put down another city.

I don't feel like I did any bonifide put-downin' and indeed have not come to know Dallas well enough to my satisfaction, and I do feel you have a fair point. I also feel like friction is due the "new big boys," same way it's always been and has been constructive at it's best. Chicago still busts our chops all the god damn time, and in a weird way I feel it's sort of helped drive our stagnant small metro to build 2 grade separated rail lines.

[Jelly Roll]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

Okay, that's your experience. Mine is different apparently.

Granted, but I question how accurate what you say is. I live in New Jersey so obviously people are more likely to tell me the town they live in as I am more lively to know where it is. Then they are lively to go to the bigger town near them and then the county as most people from Jersey know the counties.

On the other note when I went to school in DC people from Jersey always said what part of Jersey they where from before saying NYC before they knew I was also from Jersey. I just really doubt that people 70+ miles from NYC said they live in or are associated with NYC. They might work there but I really doubt they claim to even live in the area. Mercer County is a prime example of this. More people work in NYC then Philly but if you want to tell someone where you live it is much easier to identify with Philly because it is 35+ miles closer.

[Jelly Roll]

I also want to say I am not sure what all the Houston-East Coast stuff is all about. The two metros are completely different and not really worth comparing in my opinion. Most Philly people will completely agree that more people depend on Houston for their job and money then Philly. On the same note most of those Philly people could honestly care less that Houston passed Philly from this metro area comparison. Houston city passed Philadelphia city a long time ago. People in the Philly area could care less.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

Houston may be large, but as far as I know, there isn't much to the city culturally. For example, no iconic architecture comes to mind when I think of Houston, and I don't think any major artistic scenes have originated from Houston either. L.A. for example (which I only use as an example because I live there and know it well) gave birth to the skating scene, greatly impacted rock and rap and hip hop, has movies, has unique architectural and artistic styles (California Design/Modernism), amazing restaurants, etc. Concerning this, what does Houston have? Only when Houston achieves this level of culture maturity will I consider it a city that can stand among the ranks of Chicago, New York, L.A, and yes, Philadelphia.

Here we go with "city vs city" from forumers who don't know what they're talking about.

If you want to talk about L.A., create your own thread.

[Jelly Roll]

Originally Posted by AviationGuy

Here we go with "city vs city" from forumers who don't know what they're talking about.

If you want to talk about L.A., create your own thread.

Just ignore those comments. Philadelphians have a lot of respect for Houston. Texas and Pa are not that different.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by 599GTO

It's so sad though. All those people all that growth yet it's still a wasteland.

When you think of Houston, you think ........[crickets]. It simply has no identity. And no, Montrose doesn't count as identity...it looked like a dollar store version of Brooklyn's Williamsburg or something. The only draw in Houston seems to be cheap real estate and a healthy job market.

Many people seem to love that exurban Houston lifestyle. Big cheap $250,000 McMansion in some treeless wasteland like Katy. Big garage to safely park your financed-to-the-hilt SUV. Enough space to waddle your wide load into the said giant SUV and into McDonalds drive thru, then off to a big box like Walmart (which is probably 100 feet from your McMansion due to lack of zoning) and then back home to the comfort of your McMansion. And "good schools" of course.

Let's hope Houston catches up on the culture/amenities front before the population growth stops (because it will stop -- look at NYC and LA's past where it seemed like their huge pop. explosions would never ever stop)

You mentioned Katy, but you neglected to mention the naturally forested, beautiful burbs like Woodlands and all the Memorial villages. Not that I love suburbs, but you deliberately chose the least attractive of the suburbs.

[Capsule F]

Originally Posted by Jelly Roll

Just ignore those comments. Philadelphians have a lot of respect for Houston. Texas and Pa are not that different.

We do? I'm sorry, I wouldn't be caught dead there, I need some counter-culture in my life.

I'm glad it is growing and has a healthy job market, wish we had one like it here. Oil is a powerful thing.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by 599GTO

It's so sad though. All those people all that growth yet it's still a wasteland.

When you think of Houston, you think ........[crickets]. It simply has no identity. And no, Montrose doesn't count as identity...it looked like a dollar store version of Brooklyn's Williamsburg or something. The only draw in Houston seems to be cheap real estate and a healthy job market.

Many people seem to love that exurban Houston lifestyle. Big cheap $250,000 McMansion in some treeless wasteland like Katy. Big garage to safely park your financed-to-the-hilt SUV. Enough space to waddle your wide load into the said giant SUV and into McDonalds drive thru, then off to a big box like Walmart (which is probably 100 feet from your McMansion due to lack of zoning) and then back home to the comfort of your McMansion. And "good schools" of course.

Let's hope Houston catches up on the culture/amenities front before the population growth stops (because it will stop -- look at NYC and LA's past where it seemed like their huge pop. explosions would never ever stop)

yet people from your city are leaving for mine.

[599GTO]

Originally Posted by JManc

yet people from your city are leaving for mine.

Oh?

[Jelly Roll]

Originally Posted by Capsule F

We do? I'm sorry, I wouldn't be caught dead there, I need some counter-culture in my life.

I'm glad it is growing and has a healthy job market, wish we had one like it here. Oil is a powerful thing.

The Philly area has most of the refineries in the north east and PA is a very tax lenient state as far as the east coast goes. PA also has massive natural gas reserves. PA has extremely liberal gun laws. As far as counter-culture PA is very much conservative. They have some of the strictest laws in that regard. I realize that is shocking to Philly residents but it is true, Pennscitucky is a name the state has rightly earned.

[BnaBreaker]

Originally Posted by 599GTO

It's so sad though. All those people all that growth yet it's still a wasteland.

When you think of Houston, you think ........[crickets]. It simply has no identity. And no, Montrose doesn't count as identity...it looked like a dollar store version of Brooklyn's Williamsburg or something. The only draw in Houston seems to be cheap real estate and a healthy job market.

Many people seem to love that exurban Houston lifestyle. Big cheap $250,000 McMansion in some treeless wasteland like Katy. Big garage to safely park your financed-to-the-hilt SUV. Enough space to waddle your wide load into the said giant SUV and into McDonalds drive thru, then off to a big box like Walmart (which is probably 100 feet from your McMansion due to lack of zoning) and then back home to the comfort of your McMansion. And "good schools" of course.

Let's hope Houston catches up on the culture/amenities front before the population growth stops (because it will stop -- look at NYC and LA's past where it seemed like their huge pop. explosions would never ever stop)

It's not that what you're saying isn't partially true. It's that it is far from the whole picture, and that these issues are not exclusive to Houston. Houston is a highly diverse, eclectic and cosmopolitan city. I know that in your head you're under the impression that by taking hyperbolic jabs at the sunbelt you appear, somehow, enlightened and sophisticated. But the fact is that if you've got your blinders on so tightly that you can't even comprehend the possibility that there could be great things going on in a city as large as Houston, it is actually you who is the ignorant, blinded stereotype you likely assume populates it.

[austlar1]

I think you would be surprised about the presence of "counter culture" in Houston. The city has always had a boho working class edge to it and for several decades now it has been large enough and populous enough to allow a certain kind of bohemianism to flourish. Oil and Big Money are just one part of Houston. The far flung suburbs are another. The neat thing about Bohemian Houston is that it exists without a lot of pretense or attitude. It is just there, if you want it, mostly in inner loop neighborhoods in coffee houses, neighborhood ice houses (got any ice houses in PHilly besides the ones that sell drugs?), dive bars, and neat little stores and galleries. Houston has supported a Pacifica radio station for years. What is Pacifica radio? Well, before there was any public radio in the country, there was the Pacifica Foundation which ran radio stations in NYC, LA, Berkeley, and (surprise!) Houston. This was a counter culture messenger service that got started back in the late 1950s or thereabouts. It reflected certain liberal or counter cultural attitudes that were already in place in Houston and over the years this has only strengthened as the city has grown.

Houston has some really nice museums. One of them is the De Menil collection which is in a building (that I don't particulary like) by Renzo Piano that is widely considered to be one of the finest post WWII buildings built in this country. I guess that is iconic kinda/sorta. The downtown skyline was once upon a time iconic and still has the ability to inspire a bit of awe. There is plenty of high culture with a fine opera company and a very good orchestra. The theater scene is lively and sometimes very high quality. THe club scene is about what you would expect, with something for everybody who is willing to look for it. The shopping scene ranges from outposts of the most famous luxury retailers to thrift shops galore and plenty of interesting resale for clothing and home furnishings. There is a shortage of good independent book stores, but that is becoming the norm in a lot of cities unfortunately. The park system is extensive and fairly well maintained. Lots of opportunity for outdoor activities, if you can handle the climate.

THe food scene is damn good at every price point. Maybe not NY, SF, or Chicago level of cuisine, but after those three, Houston holds its own in the food arena. Actually, I think once you move away from the 3 and 4 star kinds of establishments, inner city Houston probably has restaurant fare equal to Chicago's.

BTW, everybody I have ever met from Katy or The Woodlands is quick to tell me that they are from Katy or The Woodlands. If they were visiting in a far away place, they might explain that these places are Houston suburbs, and I guess they identify with the Houston metro in terms of sports teams, airports, or what have you. What they don't do is go around crowing about Houston all the time. Most of them don't like Houston and associate it in their little suburban heads as being the dirty, dangerous, and congested inner city where "those other people" live.

[Jelly Roll]

Originally Posted by austlar1

I think you would be surprised about the presence of "counter culture" in Houston. The city has always had a boho working class edge to it and for several decades now it has been large enough and populous enough to allow a certain kind of bohemianism to flourish. Oil and Big Money are just one part of Houston. The far flung suburbs are another. The neat thing about Bohemian Houston is that it exists without a lot of pretense or attitude. It is just there, if you want it, mostly in inner loop neighborhoods in coffee houses, neighborhood ice houses [B](got any ice houses in PHilly besides the ones that sell drugs?), dive bars, and neat little stores and galleries. Houston has supported a Pacifica radio station for years. What is Pacifica radio? Well, before there was any public radio in the country, there was the Pacifica Foundation which ran radio stations in NYC, LA, Berkeley, and (surprise!) Houston. This was a counter culture messanger service that got started back in the late 1950s or thereabouts.

BTW, everybody I have ever met from Katy or The Woodlands is quick to tell me that they are from Katy or The Woodlands. If they were in a far away place, they might explain that these places are Houston suburbs, and I guess they identify with the Houston metro in terms of sports teams, airports, or what have you. What they don't do is go around crowing about Houston all the time. Most of them don't like Houston and associate it in their little suburban heads as being the dirty, dangerous, and congested inner city where "those other people" live.

Not sure what an Ice house is. I have an idea and grandparents that use the term but would like a definition from you before I respond to that. I think it is common in most big cities that people from the suburbs identify with their own town or suburb before their city.

[austlar1]

Ice houses in Houston are places in older neighborhoods where people once went to get blocks of ice or bagged ice for home consumption. A lot of them serve as neighborhood beer gardens. They have disappeared in many areas and others have become kind of "iconic" as places where people gather on hot summer nights. They used to be quite common everywhere, but it seems that they have disappeared in most places in Texas (except San Antonio) and elsewhere in the south.

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by AviationGuy

Here we go with "city vs city" from forumers who don't know what they're talking about.

If you want to talk about L.A., create your own thread.

Did you miss the part where I said that I only used L.A. as an example because I know it well? New York, Boston, San Francisco etc. all have just as many major contributions to culture and art as L.A. does/has. I just used L.A. as an example because I am more acquainted with its contributions to art/culture and thus feel more comfortable talking about said contributions in comparison with another city.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by JManc

DFW is slightly bigger than GTA

CMAs (Canada) and MSAs (USA) aren't comparable. Using the Greater Toronto Area isn't either. If Ontario were a US state, metropolitan Toronto would include Hamilton and Oshawa at the bare minimum. There is no break between Toronto, Oshawa, and Hamilton whatsoever. It's a continuous swath of city despite it being broken up into the 3 metropolitan areas. Once a CMA, always a CMA even if they grow to meet each other. That's how Statistics Canada does it so that data is comparable over time.

Toronto 2011
Toronto CMA: 5,838,800
Oshawa CMA: 370,800
Hamilton CMA: 750,200
TOTAL: 6,959,800

If one used US CSA defintions, the Toronto population would include a host of other satellite cities bringing the total to 8,759,312. New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago are the only US metropolitan areas larger than Toronto by both MSA and CSA definitions.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=198203
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Horseshoe

If Texas were a Canadian province, Statistics Canada would list DFW as the Dallas CMA and the Ft. Worth CMA rather than combining them together.

[The ATX]

I have learned so much from this thread.

[tdawg]

At 12,000 square miles, the Golden Horseshoe easily dwarfs both Greater Houston and Philadelphia's Delaware Valley in size so it's not really a fair comparison.
"the Greater Horseshoe is the 6th most populous greater urbanized area in North America, just behind the Baltimore-Washington-Northern Virginia CSA."—wikipedia

[tdawg]

With respect o NYC, if you're 70 miles outside of the city, you're usually closer to another city or metro area. Maybe with some people in the Hudson Valley, they could say NYC when asked where they're from, but I've never seen that.
Long Island?

[novawolverine]

Originally Posted by tdawg

With respect o NYC, if you're 70 miles outside of the city, you're usually closer to another city or metro area. Maybe with some people in the Hudson Valley, they could say NYC when asked where they're from, but I've never seen that.
Long Island?

I've never met a Long Islander from well into Suffolk County say they're from NYC.