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  #41  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2012, 1:23 AM
bornagainbiking bornagainbiking is offline
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From Cape Breton CBC report:
So there is hope for local craft brewers

"White says the craft brewing industry grew 28 per cent in Nova Scotia from 2010 and 2011"
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  #42  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2012, 3:18 AM
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See Toronto Sun's Joe Warmington 5Dec column

The nanny state thinks it needs government workers to sell booze — yet small businesses collect billions in revenue from taxes, cigarettes and lottery tickets for governments to waste.

It’s going to make for a great election debate where Ontarians will have the choice.

“It’s time to challenge why the government needs to run businesses that distract its focus from core services we all value, like health care, education and infrastructure,” said Hudak’s release. “Let’s join our neighbours in treating people like adults.”

And let’s also stop the legal rum-runners from ripping us off, too.
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  #43  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2012, 3:47 AM
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I don't see any problem with the current system (though I don't drink that much so I'm not really affected either way).

I think I've been influenced by all the trashy looking liquor stores I've seen in Michigan and Ohio and I don't want to see such trash here.
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  #44  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2012, 5:47 AM
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Ottawa actually has 10 grocery/convenience stores within City limits that can sell beer... quite frightening
http://www.doingbusinesswithlcbo.com...yStoreMap.html
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  #45  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2012, 6:57 AM
MapleLeafs MapleLeafs is offline
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Originally Posted by Blitz View Post
I don't see any problem with the current system (though I don't drink that much so I'm not really affected either way).

I think I've been influenced by all the trashy looking liquor stores I've seen in Michigan and Ohio and I don't want to see such trash here.
Neither do I.

The LCBO is very minor inconvenience that has some very real benefits. It promotes local wines, employs 10,000 people, and brings in billions in revenue to the province.

Usually, when privatization is floated, it is because the public sector has failed. The opposite is true for the LCBO: It is a rousing success.

Two governments have made election promises to scrap the system and Dwight Duncan has said he considered it when looking at ways to balance the books: Every single one of them (Peterson in '85, Harris in '95, and Duncan in '12) decided against it. I wouldn't expect much different from this promise.
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  #46  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2012, 11:34 AM
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Neither do I.

The LCBO is very minor inconvenience that has some very real benefits. It promotes local wines, employs 10,000 people, and brings in billions in revenue to the province.

Usually, when privatization is floated, it is because the public sector has failed. The opposite is true for the LCBO: It is a rousing success.

Two governments have made election promises to scrap the system and Dwight Duncan has said he considered it when looking at ways to balance the books: Every single one of them (Peterson in '85, Harris in '95, and Duncan in '12) decided against it. I wouldn't expect much different from this promise.
Yes, it is failing through empire building and multi layering. It brings in billions in via what TAXES. It spends or wastes millions with a vast and expensive infrastructure.
I believe with the move to a private sector it will still bring in profit through those same taxes. Just no millions of dollars on expenses.
Yes people have have tried before but don't you think a organization will fight and lobby tooth and nail for the status quo.

This is about a system that has gotten greedy and is no different than an abuse of the system. Why is it that beer is almost half the price in Quebec. Same brewery same country same taxes.
Local brans can still be marketed just more readily available locally. Just advertise the product.
Just taking advantage of us and we are treated like children yet are good enough to pay taxes. Let the people decide.
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  #47  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2012, 2:11 PM
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The LCBO/Beer Store duopoly is fucking terrible. The selection of wines is generally awful. Why should I be forced to drink swill like Dan Ackroyd and Girls night out, just b/c it is from Ontario? There are some nice Niagara wines, but much better Okanagan wines, and still better delights from the continent, Australia, etc. Yes, there are some sampler wines from these regions, but hit or miss, and very little selection. THE HOURS ARE FUCKING STUPID. Banker's hours. Need some wine for dinner? Sorry, we close at 6pm. Oh, going out to a friends for dinner on sunday? Sorry, many locations closed on Sunday. Always closed, Always crowded, always overpriced. And for godsakes, get rid of the fugly uniforms.

As for the Beer Store, nothing is worse than the beer store. Never open when you need it to be. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, ALMOST NONE OPEN PAST 9PM AND QUITE A FEW CLOSE MUCH EARLIER!!! WHY??? [cue Eaton Centre Weirdo during G20: "Why are you Closed?!?!?"] Captain useless staff. Endless promotions for American horsepiss like Bud, bud light, bud lite lime, coors fucking light, now that beyond-bad Keystone, fer fuxsakes. Just look at the embarrassment that is the big-10 list. THE PRICES ARE RIDICULOUS. Does anybody in Ottawa buy significant quantities of beer in Ontario, when the delights of Quebec depanneurs lurk just over the bridge? The prices in Quebec are often 40% cheaper, or more. Stupid conveyor belt soviet-style retailing. Did I mention the shitty prices? Also, never open when you need them to be, or did I mention that already? King Shit of Turd Mountain employees that think they own the goddamned place. Lineups to return empties. The crashing of empty bottles/cans filling the room. Lineups. More lineups. Grizzled, Stanky-piss clientele. Pickup trucks with fat porky wives waiting while husbands pick up their 24 of Bud. $49 for a fucking 24 of basic Canadian Beer (Not Canadian, the brand: I would never drink that tasteless air).
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  #48  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2012, 2:16 PM
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Would trade rules allow Ontario to permit only Ontario beer and wine to be sold in convenience stores? That is something I wouldn't mind seeing. The Beer Store could disappear anytime, as far as I'm concerned, but I would hate to lose the LCBO and its wine-buying power in international markets. I love Vintages and don't think the private sector (in any single location) could match it.
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  #49  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2012, 2:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
The LCBO/Beer Store duopoly is fucking terrible. The selection of wines is generally awful. Why should I be forced to drink swill like Dan Ackroyd and Girls night out, just b/c it is from Ontario? There are some nice Niagara wines, but much better Okanagan wines, and still better delights from the continent, Australia, etc. Yes, there are some sampler wines from these regions, but hit or miss, and very little selection. THE HOURS ARE FUCKING STUPID. Banker's hours. Need some wine for dinner? Sorry, we close at 6pm. Oh, going out to a friends for dinner on sunday? Sorry, many locations closed on Sunday. Always closed, Always crowded, always overpriced. And for godsakes, get rid of the fugly uniforms.

Maybe things are different in London but I have very few complaints about the LCBO. Generally better selection than most of the independent stores I have been to in Alberta or the US and better price-points on high end beers (not sure about wine but from what I hear the selection at flagship stores is hard to beat). Low end stuff is more expensive yes, but this personally isn't a big deal for me and wouldn't change with privatization anyways, unless minimum pricing laws also changed. I am not aware of any store in central Toronto outside of the PATH that closes before 9pm weekdays and most are now open until 6 on Sunday. Yeah this could be a bit better but it isn't that big of a deal. If I want wine late there are wine rack locations open until 11pm now. The only real complaint about the LCBO I have is the relative lack of microbrews from the US and Quebec, however this is beginning to be addressed.

I agree about everything regarding the Beer Store, it is garbage. My ideal situation would be to keep the LCBO, dissolve the Beer Store and allow limited sales of beer and wine at corner/grocery stores.
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  #50  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2012, 4:06 PM
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^I could live with that arrangement, as it would basically be what is currently enjoyed in Quebec, where I lived for many years. Agreed about the shittiness of BC liquor stores (the situation there is even worse [I lived in BC for five years], even with more options to buy beer/liquor in private establishments, these places gouge you beyond belief).

I guess my real beef is with the horrid beer st'whore, which is just a front by the foreign owners of Labatt/Molson to promote Yankee-brand piss and miminize convenience to customers while maximizing price.
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  #51  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2012, 5:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bornagainbiking View Post
Yes, it is failing through empire building and multi layering. It brings in billions in via what TAXES. It spends or wastes millions with a vast and expensive infrastructure.
I believe with the move to a private sector it will still bring in profit through those same taxes. Just no millions of dollars on expenses.
Yes people have have tried before but don't you think a organization will fight and lobby tooth and nail for the status quo
No, it brings in billions in addition to sin taxes.

The LCBO paid a dividend of $1.63 billion to the province last year. It has paid out $12.9 billion in the last decade.

With a $14.4 billion deficit, how does it make any sense whatsoever to forfeit $1.6 billion in annual revenue?

Quote:
This is about a system that has gotten greedy and is no different than an abuse of the system. Why is it that beer is almost half the price in Quebec. Same brewery same country same taxes.
Local brans can still be marketed just more readily available locally. Just advertise the product.
Just taking advantage of us and we are treated like children yet are good enough to pay taxes. Let the people decide.
Even Hudak admits that prices likely won't see much of a drop:

Quote:
Booze in the corner stores is about convenience, not reduced prices, Tory Leader Tim Hudak says.
http://www.thespec.com/news/ontario/...ces-hudak-says
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  #52  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2012, 5:42 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
The LCBO/Beer Store duopoly is fucking terrible. The selection of wines is generally awful. Why should I be forced to drink swill like Dan Ackroyd and Girls night out, just b/c it is from Ontario?
I've been saying this for a long, long time. Every time I head back to Portugal to visit relatives, my body fills with rage when I can walk in to any Pingo Doce (basically the Portuguese equivalent of Loblaws) and choose from a huge selection of good, local wines for 3-5 euros (ie less than $7.00). What's great is that most stores are open until about 11pm, so you're not SOL if you want to grab something after government union hours end. It baffles me that people continue to support the system that we have here when there are much better options available. If anything, the LCBO discourages small-scale local production, since it's notoriously hard to get your product on their shelves thanks to their inane, bureaucratic merchandise selection system.
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  #53  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2012, 8:34 PM
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I have yet to hear a single compelling argument for the status quo on the Beer Store/LCBO duopoly.
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The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere.Elie Wiesel
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  #54  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2012, 8:39 PM
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While I would love to have alcohol in corner stores, the Provincial government simply can't give up the revenue from the LCBO right now. If they were to maintain a steady income from alcohol (see: increased prices) I would be perfectly fine with it.
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  #55  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2012, 8:48 PM
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The booze tax recently went up in Quebec, but it's still cheaper than Ontario.

http://blogs.montrealgazette.com/201...ing-by-quebec/

17 cents a litre more on beer, 50 cents a litre on wine and spirits.

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  #56  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2012, 11:22 PM
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here's the study the province commissioned in 2005.. the model they recommended would have kept the $1.5 billion per year in revenue and added an addtional $200 million or more per year from licence auctions.
http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/consulta...sr/report.html

Quote:
Over the decades, the government has come to rely on substantial revenues from the beverage alcohol system, which currently generates more than $1.5 billion a year to help fund health care, education and other public priorities. Part of our mission was to determine if more government revenue could be generated by the system. Our finding, after close analysis with our financial advisors, is that it could.

Our fundamental conclusion is this: To create an open and competitive system, maximize government revenue and protect social responsibility and other public interests, we unanimously recommend that the government withdraw from retail and wholesale operations and implement a licensing system for the retailing and wholesaling of beverage alcohol in Ontario
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  #57  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2012, 3:46 AM
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Those extra LCBO profits are just excess taxes.
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  #58  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2012, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by harls View Post
The booze tax recently went up in Quebec, but it's still cheaper than Ontario.

http://blogs.montrealgazette.com/201...ing-by-quebec/

17 cents a litre more on beer, 50 cents a litre on wine and spirits.

Whether you call it a "tax" or not, Liquor store markup all goes into the governments bank account.
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  #59  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2012, 10:33 PM
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Good ol' Ontario. Where "Happiness is Playing Bingo!"
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The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere.Elie Wiesel
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  #60  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2012, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by toaster View Post
Whether you call it a "tax" or not, Liquor store markup all goes into the governments bank account.
Not all of it goes to the government.... if the wholesale price is too low, the LCBO will ask the supplier to raise their prices

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/p...doesn-t-add-up

http://www.auditor.on.ca/en/reports_.../2011ar_en.pdf
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