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  #161  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2019, 2:14 PM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
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There are many people who still don't now what a condo is. I've seen both single family home developments and apartment complexes be referred to as condos on numerous occasions, even by the press etc.

As for the status of this project, still nothing since getting the construction use permit. Still no building permit. A lot has to happen between the two, as you probably know. However the length of time is getting more and more concerning if you compare it to Riverwalk, which got its construction use permit in December 2017 and its building permit exactly two months later.

The site for this project is a lot more complicated so I'll give it another 3 months before worrying about it.
Gotcha. Thanks for the info re status!
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  #162  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2019, 7:04 PM
City Wide City Wide is offline
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Originally Posted by Aaamazarite View Post

As for the status of this project, still nothing since getting the construction use permit. Still no building permit. A lot has to happen between the two, as you probably know. However the length of time is getting more and more concerning if you compare it to Riverwalk, which got its construction use permit in December 2017 and its building permit exactly two months later.

"construction use permit", is that the same as a zoning permit? (which has to happen before a building permit is issued)
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  #163  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2019, 7:58 PM
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"construction use permit", is that the same as a zoning permit? (which has to happen before a building permit is issued)
Yeah you have to get a Zoning/Use Permit that is "Z/U- New Construction" Type, then when the time comes you get a "New Construction Permit" that is "ANC-Entire Structure" or "ANC-Foundation" Type.

Last edited by Aaamazarite; Feb 20, 2019 at 8:14 PM.
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  #164  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2019, 9:39 AM
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Still nothing new on this.... I talked to an attorney involved with the project in February and, at that time, he hadn't seen interior design drawings, didn't know the current status of the design or construction, and hadn't seen any construction plans yet...
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  #165  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2019, 2:04 PM
Redddog Redddog is offline
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Still nothing new on this.... I talked to an attorney involved with the project in February and, at that time, he hadn't seen interior design drawings, didn't know the current status of the design or construction, and hadn't seen any construction plans yet...
uh oh.
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  #166  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2019, 2:13 PM
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https://www.phila.gov/CityPlanning/p...ge_reduced.pdf

This went through CDR, but it is Parkway Corp. I don't think they have build anything yet. Best case scenario is to pair up with another developer, and be a co-developer since that is not their usual business.
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  #167  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2019, 2:40 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartphilly View Post
https://www.phila.gov/CityPlanning/p...ge_reduced.pdf

This went through CDR, but it is Parkway Corp. I don't think they have build anything yet. Best case scenario is to pair up with another developer, and be a co-developer since that is not their usual business.
Yes, I’m sure they need a development partner. But that shouldn’t be an obstacle. They’ve done this a number of times. 1706 Rittenhouse was actually Parkway land and Parkway/Scannapieco partnership, for example. Not sure whether or not they lined someone up on this one awhile ago.
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  #168  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2019, 4:57 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartphilly View Post
https://www.phila.gov/CityPlanning/p...ge_reduced.pdf

This went through CDR, but it is Parkway Corp. I don't think they have build anything yet. Best case scenario is to pair up with another developer, and be a co-developer since that is not their usual business.
they partnered up with the developers of the 2 apartments projects on N. Broad St, just north of Vine. I'd love to see the partnership agreement-----in terms of how much stake their ownership in the land gives them in the total project. Wasn't 12th & Walnut a deal that included them as well?
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  #169  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2019, 5:23 PM
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I'm not too worried about this one - this is a prime site. It is my understanding that Parkway has brought in someone new recently to accelerate the development of their prime lots to better realize the value of their holdings.
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  #170  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2019, 6:01 PM
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^
That's good. I hope they have financing and a GC in place soon. Would love to see this one kickoff before summer.
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  #171  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2019, 6:03 PM
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Originally Posted by City Wide View Post
they partnered up with the developers of the 2 apartments projects on N. Broad St, just north of Vine. I'd love to see the partnership agreement-----in terms of how much stake their ownership in the land gives them in the total project. Wasn't 12th & Walnut a deal that included them as well?
Yes, it would be telling if we could see the agreement. I'm not familiar with the 12th and Walnut project? Is there a link anywhere?
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  #172  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2019, 6:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jsbrook View Post
Yes, I’m sure they need a development partner. But that shouldn’t be an obstacle. They’ve done this a number of times. 1706 Rittenhouse was actually Parkway land and Parkway/Scannapieco partnership, for example. Not sure whether or not they lined someone up on this one awhile ago.
Nice...I was unaware they were involved with 1706. And, that was a high end project but small in scale.
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  #173  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2019, 6:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat View Post
I'm not too worried about this one - this is a prime site. It is my understanding that Parkway has brought in someone new recently to accelerate the development of their prime lots to better realize the value of their holdings.
Ahem, 20th and Walnut....
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  #174  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2019, 6:29 PM
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Ahem, 20th and Walnut....
Parkway doesn't own that one, they just manage it. The owners are notorious for never selling any of their holdings-- I'm pretty sure that one is their only parking lot.
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  #175  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2019, 7:04 PM
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Parkway doesn't own that one, they just manage it. The owners are notorious for never selling any of their holdings-- I'm pretty sure that one is their only parking lot.
Good info, thanks. It's owners like this that would be perfect for some sort of a progressive tax that disincentivizes squatting on prime lots like this.
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  #176  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2019, 8:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Londonee View Post
Good info, thanks. It's owners like this that would be perfect for some sort of a progressive tax that disincentivizes squatting on prime lots like this.

Tax surface parking lots at their full market value. I doubt that the State laws would allow that, but its a concept that would put pressure on the lots owners to make parking on such lots a lot more expensive or to find other uses
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  #177  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2019, 9:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Aaamazarite View Post
Parkway doesn't own that one, they just manage it. The owners are notorious for never selling any of their holdings-- I'm pretty sure that one is their only parking lot.
Who is the owner? That's got to be on the shortlist for development. Too valuable not to be (unless the owner has no sense). How much money can it be generating as a surface, non-garage lot? I can see other things going first, though. The owners of the lot at 22nd and Walnut with the Sunoco were quietly shopping it out about 1 1/2 years ago. I'm not sure what the response was and what the current plans are.
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  #178  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2019, 9:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat View Post
I'm not too worried about this one - this is a prime site. It is my understanding that Parkway has brought in someone new recently to accelerate the development of their prime lots to better realize the value of their holdings.
That is good. I agree that this block is primed for development. Astoban's boutique condo will go up across the street, and if Goldenberg can pull something big together for 8th and Market and 8th and Chestnut, this parcel will quickly become very attractive (and rents should shoot up if it is already built out first). Plus the East Market developments and projects earmarked for closer to Washington Square Park. I think it's also one of the prettiest blocks in Center City. Some of the storefronts are shabby, but the old buildings themselves on the 700 block of Chestnut are beautiful.
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  #179  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2019, 9:45 PM
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I can see that if the lot on 20th/Walnut is owned by an individual. It is money in the bank for him/her. And, that mindset would be why should I sell a cash cow-reoccurring revenue stream that offers me good cash flow. Maybe I can get a lump sum for the lot, but I'm not interest in selling the lot and paying a big tax bill. At least that is one way to think of it. And, I don't want the hassle of anything beside what I have. This person is running a business and should not be forced to sale or coerce to sale because of inflated taxes. While we don't like surface lots, it is still a business and people park there and there is demand for it.

On the other hand, if this lot is own by a business entity that runs parking lots, maybe they cash in, have a business arrangement with the developer to run the garage as part of the building project, and have the money and expertise to do it right and still make a buck. Just saying.

FWIW, I wholeheartedly prefer the 2nd option. I think building a new building with garage parking is a great compromise for this location.
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  #180  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2019, 1:02 AM
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Originally Posted by iheartphilly View Post
I can see that if the lot on 20th/Walnut is owned by an individual. It is money in the bank for him/her. And, that mindset would be why should I sell a cash cow-reoccurring revenue stream that offers me good cash flow. Maybe I can get a lump sum for the lot, but I'm not interest in selling the lot and paying a big tax bill. At least that is one way to think of it. And, I don't want the hassle of anything beside what I have. This person is running a business and should not be forced to sale or coerce to sale because of inflated taxes. While we don't like surface lots, it is still a business and people park there and there is demand for it.

On the other hand, if this lot is own by a business entity that runs parking lots, maybe they cash in, have a business arrangement with the developer to run the garage as part of the building project, and have the money and expertise to do it right and still make a buck. Just saying.

FWIW, I wholeheartedly prefer the 2nd option. I think building a new building with garage parking is a great compromise for this location.

It's not about "FORCING" someone to sell if they don't want to, it's about fixing a broken tax code that creates so many incentives to operate surface parking lots in this city. The way the city taxes unimproved land is clearly thoroughly inadequate. Every time someone does sell one of these lots they always sell for somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-50 times the value they were being taxed at. There is nothing malicious with trying to get the valuation used to tax a property more in line with its actual value.
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