HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #41  
Old Posted May 23, 2012, 12:23 AM
M II A II R II K's Avatar
M II A II R II K M II A II R II K is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 42,950
How Much Will $6 Billion Improve Access to Jobs in Metro Atlanta?


May 21, 2012

By Angie Schmitt

Read More: http://streetsblog.net/2012/05/21/ho...metro-atlanta/

Quote:
.....

In their quest to win voter support for a $6 billion funding package that would be split about evenly between transit and roads, proponents have settled on the phrase ”Let’s Untie Atlanta’s Knot.” Equating the ballot measure to a referendum on Atlanta’s notorious congestion woes seems like a smart idea. Network blog Decatur Metro decided to evaluate the “untying” claim on its central promise — congestion relief — and found that it passes the sniff test, especially when it comes to transit:

- The AJC this morning has summarized the Atlanta Regional Commission’s findings from a 10-year traffic simulation program and shown that the figures overall are either impressive or underwhelming, depending on what area you look at and/or which expert/non-expert you speak with.

Atlanta’s infrastructure is a big ol’ expensive mistress, and though $6 billion may sound big compared to, say, our annual salaries, it’s a drop in the bucket for the metro area’s collection of road and rail. Or Mark Zuckerberg for that matter. But some figures seem heartening…

From the Atlanta Journal Constitution:

- On average, the number of metro Atlantans able to reach job centers in under 45 minutes would rise just 6 percent by car, and about 20 percent by bus or train, if the projects are built. The new transit projects expect perhaps 75,000 or more daily boardings. Regional planners insist that in the world of transportation design, a 6 percent or 20 percent jump in good commutes is a big deal.

.....
__________________
ASDFGHJK
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #42  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2012, 12:59 PM
shivtim's Avatar
shivtim shivtim is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Midtown Atlanta
Posts: 1,280
This is pretty complicated, so here is some clarification on this referendum for those who are interested:

-It's a "transportation" referendum, so it's not just transit. It includes road expansions and even some money for an airport control tower.
-The Atlanta region as a whole (10 counties) will vote on July 31st.
-In order to pass, the referendum must have an overall yes vote across the 10 county region. So several counties could vote against it and it could still pass. What matters is only if the overall yes vote total passes 50%.
-The referendum would start a 1% sales tax that would last for a maximum of 10 years. If the total amount needed is raised early, the tax would expire early.
-The total amount to be raised is $7.2 billion.
-85% of the money ($6.14 billion) goes to construct "regional projects." The money would pay for these projects only.
-The list of regional projects is set in stone and was developed and approved unanimously by elected officials from across the region.
-The full projects list is avialable here: http://www.ajc.com/multimedia/archiv...t_1160778a.pdf
-The remaining 15% (a little more than $1 billion) is divided among local jurisdictions (each county and city in the region). The amount for each jurisdiction is determined by a formula based on the number of people and road lane miles. They can use this money on any local projects they want.
-Local jurisdictions are not required to announce before the vote what they will spend their 15% on. So far Cobb County and the city of Atlanta have both released a local list anyway.
-Support for the referendum has come from all sides. The business/corporate community is leading a well-funded support campaign. Politicians ranging from the republican Governor of Georgia to the democratic mayor of Atlanta have voiced strong support. The local Universities (Emory, Georgia Tech, Morehouse, etc) are all in support. Most local transit/sustainability non-profits are all in support. MARTA supports. The Beltline supports. Local unions are in support.
-Opposition for the referendum has also come from all sides. Tea Party groups and some suburban/exurban officials oppose the tax simply because it is a tax. Some oppose because they don't support transit expansion. Some don't believe there is a traffic problem in the first place. The Sierra Club of Georgia opposes because they think there is too much road expansion on the list. The Dekalb County NAACP opposes because they think the project list ignores heavily African American south Dekalb County.
-Polling has been limited and is mixed. One poll showed the tax barely losing, while another showed it winning. In general there is strong support from the urban core (Fulton County, Dekalb County, Clayton County, City of Atlanta, City of Decatur), moderate support from urban nodes in suburban counties, and moderate to strong opposition from suburban/exurban counties.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #43  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2012, 7:56 PM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
atomic
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 12,597
Speaking of well-funded transportation campaigns... check out the ads at the bottom of this thread.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2012, 10:19 PM
Rail Claimore's Avatar
Rail Claimore Rail Claimore is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 6,196
City of Atlanta, Fulton, DeKalb, Clayton, and Gwinnett Counties will vote for the tax. All other suburban counties will vote against it. The swing vote in this referendum is Cobb.
__________________
So am I supposed to sign something here?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #45  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2012, 2:11 PM
shivtim's Avatar
shivtim shivtim is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Midtown Atlanta
Posts: 1,280
Atlanta Mayor argues for the T-SPLOST:
http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insid...ving%E2%80%99/
"In an unexpectedly passionate speech that took aim at doubters and the news media, Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed this morning declared the campaign for the transportation sales tax to be far from dead, and said passage of the July 31 referendum was needed to pull the region out of the doldrums that threaten its economic standing in the South."

Sounds like a constructive protest...
http://mdjonline.com/bookmark/193454...T#.UAbfvRzg5WZ
"A Cobb County anti-TSPLOST group plans to drive around Interstate 285 on Saturday to protest the proposed 1 percent sales tax that voters from 10 counties will vote on July 31.
The Lights for Liberty Drive, organized by the Individual Liberty Coalition, will begin at 10 a.m. Participants are asked to access I-285 from any on-ramp with their flashers on, driving the speed limit and circling the 50-plus-mile route twice counter-clockwise, which should take about two hours."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #46  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2012, 2:32 PM
Nexis4Jersey's Avatar
Nexis4Jersey Nexis4Jersey is offline
Greetings from New Jersey
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In the Pascack Valley
Posts: 2,920
I don't understand how you can oppose a 1cent sales tax increase , anything below 15 cents isn't going to hurt the average American.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #47  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2012, 9:44 PM
bobdreamz's Avatar
bobdreamz bobdreamz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Miami/Orlando, FL.
Posts: 6,862
I wish the best for Atlanta on July 31st. but to get 10 counties to agree on raising the sales tax seems like a formidable task0 Some of the polls I've seen aren't to promising so far. Can you ATL forumers keep us posted on the latest polls as we get closer to the day of the vote?
__________________
Miami : 40 Skyscrapers over 500 + ft. | 152 + meters | 16 U/C !
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #48  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2012, 10:11 PM
L41A's Avatar
L41A L41A is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Peace Up, A-Town Down
Posts: 688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
I don't understand how you can oppose a 1cent sales tax increase , anything below 15 cents isn't going to hurt the average American.
It is not a 1 cent sales tax increase. It is a 1 percent sales tax increase.

I support the TSPLOST but I do understand the reasoning by some who may oppose .... like Fulton and DeKalb already paying 1 percent tax for MARTA - then an additional 1 percent if TSPLOST passes - making Fulton sales tax around 9 - 10%.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #49  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2012, 1:17 PM
shivtim's Avatar
shivtim shivtim is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Midtown Atlanta
Posts: 1,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdreamz View Post
Can you ATL forumers keep us posted on the latest polls as we get closer to the day of the vote?
The latest poll showed it 38% for, 41% against, with the rest undecided. It was within the margin of error. However, a poll released last week by the opposition showed it trailing by more than 10%. There were questions about the accuracy of that poll because it wasn't "likely voters" and it was only on landlines (not cell phones).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #50  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2012, 4:49 PM
Rail Claimore's Avatar
Rail Claimore Rail Claimore is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 6,196
It'll be close: My guess is that which-ever way it goes, the margin will be less than 5%.
__________________
So am I supposed to sign something here?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #51  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2012, 3:21 AM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
atomic
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 12,597
Quote:
Originally Posted by L41A View Post
It is not a 1 cent sales tax increase. It is a 1 percent sales tax increase.
I.E. one additional cent on the dollar. What else could be implied by "one-cent tax"?
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #52  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2012, 5:26 AM
L41A's Avatar
L41A L41A is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Peace Up, A-Town Down
Posts: 688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
I don't understand how you can oppose a 1cent sales tax increase , anything below 15 cents isn't going to hurt the average American.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L41A View Post
It is not a 1 cent sales tax increase. It is a 1 percent sales tax increase.

I support the TSPLOST but I do understand the reasoning by some who may oppose .... like Fulton and DeKalb already paying 1 percent tax for MARTA - then an additional 1 percent if TSPLOST passes - making Fulton sales tax around 9 - 10%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
I.E. one additional cent on the dollar. What else could be implied by "one-cent tax"?
I got the implication that Nexis4Jersey meant 1 cent (not 1 cent to the dollar or 1%) because he followed with "anything below 15 cents isn't going to hurt the average American".

With the total sales tax being 9% (or 9 cents to the dollar) in Fulton County, you would only have to make $1.67 purchase to tally the 15 cents that he stated would start to hurt the average American. He obviously did not mean 15% because I don't believe there is nowhere in America where the sales tax is 15% (or 15 cents to the dollar). In fact, a quick google search tells me that certain districts in Chicago has the highest sales tax in the country at 11.5% (11.5 cents to the dollar).

So I believe my deduction from he stated was reasonable. Thank You!
If not, it would seem that he thinks that Fulton County pays no sales tax currently and would just have the 1% sales tax for the TSPLOST.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #53  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2012, 1:58 AM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
atomic
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 12,597
Doesn't look good for Atlanta, although they've only tallied 33% of the precincts and urban precincts are usually the last to come in.

Unfortunately, if T-SPLOST fails, it will probably be taken as a repudiation of any and all transit, and following transportation decisions at the state level will be roads-only. I hate the slogan, but if Atlanta wants to "win the future", it's gonna have to adopt a more supportive attitude toward transit service (and MARTA may need to make changes as well).
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #54  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2012, 2:00 AM
tdawg's Avatar
tdawg tdawg is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NY,NY
Posts: 2,141
Considering the national attention this has received at a time when cities like Denver, Los Angeles, and Dallas are expanding their transit systems, it's likely to be big black eye for Atlanta's reputation, just when it doesn't need one.
__________________
Creative Director in New York City
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #55  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2012, 2:37 AM
L41A's Avatar
L41A L41A is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Peace Up, A-Town Down
Posts: 688
It is not looking good for the Atlanta Region with the TSPLOST. It is one of eight transportation regions that is saying no. Although there are less percentage of precincts reporting in the Atlanta region.

Three regions, including Augusta and Columbus regions, are passing TSPLOST with a majority of precincts reporting.

The opposition to Atlanta region TSPLOST by the likes of Georgia Sierra Club and DeKalb NAACP is really hurting its passage. I understand their positions. However, I don't think they understand that TSPLOST is not the end-all for transportation projects in the Atlanta Region. They could have still push their agenda for transit regardless of TSPLOST funds - much like the Multi-Modal Station which isn't a TSPLOST project. Oh well.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #56  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2012, 2:37 AM
atlantaguy's Avatar
atlantaguy atlantaguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Area code 404
Posts: 3,007
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdawg View Post
Considering the national attention this has received at a time when cities like Denver, Los Angeles, and Dallas are expanding their transit systems, it's likely to be big black eye for Atlanta's reputation, just when it doesn't need one.
Exactly, tdawg. I'm watching the returns as I post, and it's still early - but I'm not seeing it pass.

Of course, the exurban Counties are voting against it at about 4 to 1. DeKalb & Fulton aren't in yet - it's close so far, but on the negative side. It's doesn't look good at all.

Pretty depressing for a LOT of us, to say the least.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #57  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2012, 3:21 AM
shivtim's Avatar
shivtim shivtim is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Midtown Atlanta
Posts: 1,280
Multiple news stations have called it - TSPLOST will fail in the Atlanta region. Early numbers show it trailing in all 10 counties.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #58  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2012, 4:13 AM
M II A II R II K's Avatar
M II A II R II K M II A II R II K is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 42,950
It's been reported that the initial votes indicate a vote against this tax.
__________________
ASDFGHJK
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #59  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2012, 4:55 AM
Cirrus's Avatar
Cirrus Cirrus is offline
720 is a poopyface
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 17,545
It lost. It wasn't close.
__________________
BeyondDC: blog | twitter | flickr | instagram | Exploring urbanism and transportation in the Washington, DC area.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #60  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2012, 5:37 AM
mhays mhays is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 16,015
It's not necessarily a black eye. The measure was a grab bag and had plenty for everyone to dislike, and it sounds like too many projects that voters never understood. The next one doesn't have to be that way.

Simplify, narrow the geography to the core few million, and make it only about transit. The urban and enviro crowd and much of the business community should get behind it. The roads can be a separate issue.

This approach (aside from the smaller geography) was successful in Seattle when we had a very similar roads and transit measure a few years ago which also failed.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 4:05 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.