Hassalo on Eighth | 21 floors | Completed

[Derek]

Originally Posted by PacificNW

In regards to this development and possible future projects: How does one go about lifting the height limitations in downtown/Lloyd District? Can this be undone by the city council?

My question is, why are there height limits?

[zilfondel]

http://www.nwcn.com/home/?fId=141689...&fDomain=10202

[MilwaukeeMark]

Originally Posted by Derek

My question is, why are there height limits?

The height limit in Portland was established in the early 70s in response to public outcry over potential blockage of Mount Hood views. It's directly linked with the completion of Wells Fargo Center.

A lot of cities have height restrictions. Madison, Wisconsin, for instance, has a limit that restricts building height higher than the state capitol building. Closer to home, Lake Oswego has a limit of something like three stories. It's to ensure a village-like feel.

[RED_PDXer]

The height limits seem plenty big already. 30 or more stories are allowed all over the place. New buildings of that height will certainly add to the skyline and provide sufficient density to make downtown a 24 hour place if just built out a little more. I wonder if the city would actually deny a well-placed, super high rise of 80+ stories with lots of public amenities including a public viewing deck? I doubt it. The post office site in NW may be one such place. Who knows..

Anyway, in 2007 the City published a building capacity study for the central city that showed capacity for over 100 million square feet of development feasible over the next years. It would take 40-60 years to build out this area at a rate of 2 million square feet per year - quite a bit more than we've seen over last 20 years. Also, this study assumed no new development in the central eastside industrial sanctuary area (more than a block or two from MLK/Grand). There's probably just as much capacity there if the zoning was changed and the waterfront restored for urban development.

[2oh1]

Originally Posted by Grantenfuego

I could see Lloyd in the future being almost an extension of downtown.

I can't imagine it - but I only say that because of how low my opinion of Lloyd Center is, which is based on what I know Lloyd Center to be. This could really help change that. I'll be thrilled if you're right, and there sure is plenty of potential for good things there. This project in particular really excites me.

[MilwaukeeMark]

Originally Posted by 2oh1

I can't imagine it - but I only say that because of how low my opinion of Lloyd Center is, which is based on what I know Lloyd Center to be. This could really help change that. I'll be thrilled if you're right, and there sure is plenty of potential for good things there. This project in particular really excites me.

I moved here about two years ago and I do not have the same perception as you. My fiance works in one of the Lloyd Center towers (PacifiCorp) and I visit often for lunch, etc.. I enjoy the area quite a bit. Holladay Park is real nice and the neighborhoods around the mall are good for walking. The mall isn't full of the most amazing shops in the world (in fact, it's kinda empty, especially with H&M buying so many stores out) but it's not terrible by any stretch. I think a development like this will certainly be an extension of downtown - definitely more than South Waterfront is. As an outsider, I was actually pretty surprised to see South Waterfront built up like it is. Across the river at Lloyd Center is obviously the more choice location. I am very excited to see this project move forward.

[bvpcvm]

The DJC chimes in.

MilwaukeeMark, the mall doesn't interact with the neighborhood at all, it's like a giant retail citadel that sucks the life out of the streets around it.

The South Waterfront was developed so that OHSU could expand while still remaining in the city. The alternative was to build a campus out at Tanasbourne, and take all those jobs with it.

[Welkin]

I love the fact that 750 apartments are going up in the Lloyd, but was that a misprint on the cost of the development? $250 million for 750 apartments comes to over $333,000 per apartment. That seems awful high. I wonder what kind of rate they expect to get in order to make that high of a cost per unit financially justifiable. I thought that 1 bedrooms were going around $950 and two bedrooms in the $1,400 or so range. That's pushing a 30-year return rate. What am I missing? Are there other revenue generators in the overall project such large amounts of retail development?

[mmeade]

Originally Posted by Welkin

I love the fact that 750 apartments are going up in the Lloyd, but was that a misprint on the cost of the development? $250 million for 750 apartments comes to over $333,000 per apartment. That seems awful high. I wonder what kind of rate they expect to get in order to make that high of a cost per unit financially justifiable. I thought that 1 bedrooms were going around $950 and two bedrooms in the $1,400 or so range. That's pushing a 30-year return rate. What am I missing? Are there other revenue generators in the overall project such large amounts of retail development?

from the DJC article:
820,000 square feet of residential space
50,000 square feet of retail space, where parking exists now.
Additionally, the property has 240,000 square feet of existing office space primarily in the Lloyd 700 Building.

[MarkDaMan]

Only 50,000 square feet of retail for a project this large? Even though Safeway is just a few blocks away, I think a Zupans/Trader Joes/Whole Foods type store would thrive in the location. A second downtown Apple or Target store or a CB2, or a thousand other destination retailers that would thrive being located next to Oregon's largest shopping center. Even better, they would be opening up to the street or MAX line instead of the interior of the mall.

[PacificNW]

Update:


http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/...20566607757000

[pdxtraveler]

Good to see news is still coming out on this project. I am still nervous it won't be built! It would be SO great for the area, which has so much potential.

[tworivers]

^^^ Seriously. I will be AMAZED if this gets built, particularly at the heights proposed. I also wonder if a project with so many units will hasten what looks like an inevitable glut of apartments in PDX.

We need more projects like this all over the central city, along with about a million or two more people to fill them and turn Portland into a cosmopolitan metropolis where people throng the streets day and night.
One can dream.

[65MAX]

Glut of apartments? Portland has some of the lowest vacancy rates in the country. We need MORE projects like this because that's where most future Portlanders will be living.

[downtownpdx]

[QUOTE=tworivers;5705349 We need more projects like this all over the central city[/QUOTE]

I love this proposal but can't help but wish it was located somewhere around the former SW 3rd & Oak proposal, or on any of the central DT area surface lots. Can't wait to see some new high-rise action nonetheless... Lloyd deperately needs exactly what this project would bring in terms of modern high-rise action and mixed-use at street-level.

[2oh1]

Originally Posted by tworivers

I also wonder if a project with so many units will hasten what looks like an inevitable glut of apartments in PDX.

There is absolutely positively no glut of apartments in Portland. We have the opposite problem. I do worry that we'll see the same mistakes from the condo market happen with rentals, where a ton of high priced units are built, but almost nothing affordable. Time will tell. Between 1998 and 2003, condos were being built downtown with prices starting below $140,000. The Roosevelt, Cornerstone, The Mosaic, for example. If I'm not mistaken, two of those three started at under $100,000. By the end of the decade, prices were almost always $250,000 plus - often double that. There was so much greed. People were buying more than they could afford. Developers were building projects priced beyond what the city needed in an attempt at a get rich quick cash grab. What a mess. I really hope the same thing doesn't happen again with apartments. Portland needs apartments badly, but if a similar sky-is-the-limit approach is taken, it'll be a disaster. We'll end up with hard to fill luxury apartments and we'll still have a lack of affordable housing.

Portland's population is growing rapidly. I don't think there will be a glut of apartments. The question is whether there will be a glut of apartments Portlanders can't afford to rent.

[RainDog]

I've noticed quite a few projects being built or proposed that are built with affordability in mind. No car parking, small sizes and so on. Hopefully that trend continues.

[Grantenfuego]

Ruff believes that if Langley's project is successful, it will inspire a number of other large-scale development projects in the Lloyd District. He notes that numerous studies have documented surface parking lots and other under-utilized properties throughout the area that could support tall office, commercial and residential buildings. Such densities are allowed under the zoning policies the council adopted to carry out the Central City Plan.

Very exciting.

[Sioux612]

I'm interested in seeing the height limits.

Tall-tall (500'+) or Tall for Portland (325')

[PacificNW]

Wasn't it a group of people (committee, city council, or commission) who decided what the limits should be? It can be changed, IMO.