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  #141  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2007, 7:55 AM
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so many problems with these new buses...it's as if they were never tested.



Frost knocks out high-tech trolley buses in Vancouver
4 extra buses run along 300 kilometres of line to keep them warm overnight

Last Updated: Thursday, November 22, 2007 | 10:20 PM ET
CBC News

Hundreds of commuters in Vancouver shared taxis, walked or even thumbed rides Thursday morning after the city's new trolley buses were out of service because overhead lines were coated with frost.

The Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority said drivers were forced to park their buses all over the city as moist air and cold temperatures overnight left the trolley lines frozen.

Although equipped with ice cutters like the old buses, the new trolleys are so technologically advanced and sensitive that the thin coat of ice on the overhead lines tricked the onboard computers into thinking the lines were dead, said TransLink spokesman Drew Snider.

"They assume that the poles have lost contact with the wires and they retract the poles — this is designed to keep the poles from failing above and bringing down trolley overheads," he said.

The new bus fleet has 188 high-tech trolleys, which rolled out in the summer of 2006, and almost all of them were grounded when the German-made system couldn't detect electricity, TransLink said.

Snider said the new trolleys were back in operation and engineers were working on fixing the problem so commuters don't encounter the same problem Friday morning.

TransLink spent most of Thursday retrieving dead trolleys and formulating a solution — keeping the wires warm through the night by running four extra buses along 300 kilometres of line and watch the weather.

"We're certain it's going to work," said Stan Sierpina, a spokesman for TransLink's customer service. "We will make sure it works … We'll have the ice cutters or the frost removers out there."

Questions are being raised on Thursday if there was enough testing done on these buses in West Coast conditions before they were purchased.

This is the third major issues with the fleet. There were problems with power steering in January of this year and trouble with the bike racks.

"It's very, very highly technical equipment and it's going to take some years before we finally get it all finalized," said Bus Mechanics Union spokesman Joe Elworthy.
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  #142  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2007, 1:03 PM
The_Henry_Man The_Henry_Man is offline
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Originally Posted by mr.x2 View Post
so many problems with these new buses...it's as if they were never tested.



Frost knocks out high-tech trolley buses in Vancouver
4 extra buses run along 300 kilometres of line to keep them warm overnight

Last Updated: Thursday, November 22, 2007 | 10:20 PM ET
CBC News

Hundreds of commuters in Vancouver shared taxis, walked or even thumbed rides Thursday morning after the city's new trolley buses were out of service because overhead lines were coated with frost.

The Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority said drivers were forced to park their buses all over the city as moist air and cold temperatures overnight left the trolley lines frozen.

Although equipped with ice cutters like the old buses, the new trolleys are so technologically advanced and sensitive that the thin coat of ice on the overhead lines tricked the onboard computers into thinking the lines were dead, said TransLink spokesman Drew Snider.

"They assume that the poles have lost contact with the wires and they retract the poles — this is designed to keep the poles from failing above and bringing down trolley overheads," he said.

The new bus fleet has 188 high-tech trolleys, which rolled out in the summer of 2006, and almost all of them were grounded when the German-made system couldn't detect electricity, TransLink said.

Snider said the new trolleys were back in operation and engineers were working on fixing the problem so commuters don't encounter the same problem Friday morning.

TransLink spent most of Thursday retrieving dead trolleys and formulating a solution — keeping the wires warm through the night by running four extra buses along 300 kilometres of line and watch the weather.

"We're certain it's going to work," said Stan Sierpina, a spokesman for TransLink's customer service. "We will make sure it works … We'll have the ice cutters or the frost removers out there."

Questions are being raised on Thursday if there was enough testing done on these buses in West Coast conditions before they were purchased.

This is the third major issues with the fleet. There were problems with power steering in January of this year and trouble with the bike racks.

"It's very, very highly technical equipment and it's going to take some years before we finally get it all finalized," said Bus Mechanics Union spokesman Joe Elworthy.
Yep, this is what we get when we let unions go unchecked and let politics get the better of them (choosing a Canadian company for buses just for the sake of being Canadian made) instead of looking around the world and choose objectively the best and the most reliable buses.
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  #143  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2007, 6:14 PM
murman murman is offline
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Where were these things built? Oh, right... W!NN!P3G! Idiots.
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  #144  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2007, 8:05 PM
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You'd think they'd be no stranger to cold weather... strange.
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  #145  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2007, 9:48 PM
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it certainly makes sense with the arrival of the Canada Line and improved bus routes serving the area.



Langara College joins U-Pass transit program

Vancouver Sun
Published: Friday, November 23, 2007
Langara College is joining the Vancity U-Pass transit program.

In a referendum, 88 per cent of students voted in favour of the program which encourages students to take public transit by giving them unlimited region wide transit access, according to a news release.

A total of $152 per four month semester is added to student fees and the students save between $124 and $368 over the semester depending on the number of zones they have to travel.
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  #146  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2007, 9:59 PM
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Mayors go to Victoria seeking transit promises
Minister gets earful of advice from leaders
Frances Bula, Vancouver Sun
Published: Friday, November 23, 2007

Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon has become the province's most popular date these days among a select group of people: mayors desperately lobbying for major transit improvements to their regions.

Vancouver Mayor Sam Sullivan was in Victoria on Thursday to lobby for the western extension of the Millennium Line, carrying with him the results of an unscientific but popular survey that indicates people want a SkyTrain line along Broadway.

The mayors of Surrey, Coquitlam, Abbotsford and Langley Township were in Victoria last week, pushing for rapid buses and rapid-transit extensions to SkyTrain for their suburbs.


Mayors such as Dianne Watts of Surrey are making the case that the south-of-Fraser region is desperately underserved, getting one-quarter the amount of transit service per capita that Vancouver and Burnaby get, with no equalization in sight until 2031.

And Port Moody Mayor Joe Trasolini, who has spent the last several months stalking Falcon's office for a commitment to the northeast sector's light-rail Evergreen Line, is hoping Falcon doesn't get fickle on him with all the pressure from everywhere else.

"Are we nervous? If I told you I wasn't, I'd be lying. We've been left behind several times before," said Trasolini.

There's a reason for all this passion. Metro Vancouver and the province are facing a crunch. The region's population is exploding, everyone is talking about the importance of going green, and the most obvious major strategy to achieve that is a great transit system.

But the region is already behind with transit services, it struggles with ways to finance even relatively modest improvements, and now it has three major demands from three very different areas for billion-dollar improvements.

"Given that we're playing catch-up and there's all this growth around us, we're like the guy running in front of the huge rolling ball," said TransLink spokesman Ken Hardie.

That's why Falcon's popularity has soared, with everyone anticipating major transit announcements in the next few months in light of Premier Gordon Campbell's recently adopted mission to make B.C. a leader in greenhouse-gas-emission reductions.

Falcon says the province's commitments will be significant.


But even the perpetually optimistic minister isn't saying that means everyone will get everything.

"It's a challenge, there's no doubt," said Falcon, just before his meeting with the Vancouver mayor.

"There's no doubt that we can't do everything all at once. And we need to make decisions that are thoughtful."

Falcon has said in the past he would like to see a rapid-transit extension within 10 years from the existing SkyTrain line out to Langley town centre -- something some south-of-Fraser politicians are also advocating --but he insisted Thursday that's a personal opinion rather than a ministerial one.

He also insists that the new TransLink board structure the province is creating will take the politics out of decisions and ensure the wisest transportation choices are made from an overall regional perspective.


But that doesn't appear to be providing any comfort to the politicians, who are all working hard these days to present their most forceful arguments for their part of the region.

In Vancouver, Sullivan and his councillor sidekick on transportation, Suzanne Anton, make the case that the city already has enough riders to justify a SkyTrain line to the University of B.C. The Broadway buses now carry about 70,000 people a day.

In Surrey and Langley, Watts and Langley Township Mayor Kurt Alberts say they need rapid-bus service along major routes there, and a rapid-bus or rapid-transit system from the King George SkyTrain along Fraser Highway to Langley town centre.


And, in the northeast, Trasolini makes the case that communities there took on gobs of extra density because they were promised transit services to go with it. And now it's time to deliver.

fbula@png.canwest.com

TRANSIT DEMANDS

- Vancouver wants:

An extension of the Millennium Line from where it ends now, Clark Drive, out to the University of B.C.

Length of line: 12 kilometres.

Approximate cost: $1 billion to $2 billion.

Commitment so far: $2 million from the city for planning; $1 million from TransLink for planning; nothing for construction.

Earliest completion date possible: 2016.



- The northeast sector wants:

The Evergreen light-rail line from where the Millennium Line ends now, Lougheed Centre, out to Coquitlam Centre.

Length of line: 11 kilometres.

Approximate cost: $1 billion.

Commitment so far: $400 million from TransLink for construction; $170 million from the province for construction.

Earliest completion date possible: late 2010, early 2011.




- The south of Fraser sector wants:

The same level of transit service that Vancouver and Burnaby have -- 2.42 hours per capita per year, instead of the .6 they now get -- well before 2031.

Also, rapid-bus service on 200th, King George, 104th and 152nd.

Also, rapid-transit along the Fraser Highway from the King George SkyTrain station to Langley town centre.

Approximate cost: Unknown.

Commitment so far: TransLink has committed to a King George rapid bus by 2013, frequent service (every 15 minutes) from Langley centre to Golden Ears Bridge by 2021, and Vancouver-level service for all of the south-of-Fraser region by 2031.

Frances Bula, Vancouver Sun














All-night runs to clear trolley lines
Four buses will keep wires warm after frost crippled service Thursday

Kelly Sinoski, Vancouver Sun
Published: Friday, November 23, 2007

METRO VANCOUVER - TransLink planned to run four buses along its trolley lines through the night after frost crippled its new fleet of "smart" trolley buses Thursday morning, stranding tens of thousands of commuters.

The 188 buses, which cost $1 million apiece, were out of service from 5 a.m. until 9 a.m. when the sun had finally melted the frost on the trolley lines.

The breakdown, affecting trolley service in Vancouver and Burnaby, left thousands of commuters late for work and TransLink officials scratching their heads over how to fix the problem.

Diesel buses were brought in from other areas, while B-Line express bus drivers picked up passengers at every stop along trolley routes.

About 120,000 commuters use the trolley buses throughout the day.

Gabriele Raasch, a graphic designer and processing supervisor for West Vancouver Memorial Library, described Thursday's morning commute as "an adventure and a test of extreme patience" after it took her 90 minutes to get to work compared with her usual 45 minutes.

"I was shocked," she said. "There were a lot of people taking taxis who were more frustrated than I."

Stan Sierpina, vice-president of customer service for Coast Mountain Bus, which operates TransLink's buses, blamed the breakdown on "unique weather circumstances" that left an accumulation of ice and frost along the 314 kilometres of trolley wire.

The ice acted as insulation against the new trolleys' sensors, which lose their connections to the overhead wires if they can't sense a power link, Sierpina said.

"Virtually all of our trolley service was affected," Sierpina said. "There's no question this had a serious impact on our customers."


Harvir Grewal, who lives in Surrey, usually makes it to his job at the BC Liquor Distribution branch within an hour, but on Thursday, it was three hours before he clocked in at 9:06 a.m.

Unlike other commuters who got off and walked, Grewal, who is blind, had to wait until the bus started running again or he could get a taxi.

"Even in the snow time, it didn't take that long," he said, adding he wasn't sure he would take the bus this morning. "Before I take a chance I'll definitely confirm with the driver that they're running smoothly."

Sierpina said he couldn't make any guarantees, but he expected the buses would be running properly today. TransLink planned to run four buses all night to keep the wires warm for the Friday commute, while staff monitor the temperature outside.

"We'll make sure it works," he said.

But it's uncertain what can be done in the long term, or how much it will cost to prevent the buses from breaking down in the cold. TransLink said it was in touch with the bus manufacturer, New Flyer Industries.

Jim Cochran, vice-president of technical services for Coast Mountain Bus, said the new trolleys are "smarter" and more efficient than the older ones and there was no reason to think they wouldn't work.

Last year, there were only 20 new trolley buses on the road during the winter, he said, so "if we did have a problem we didn't know. We now have a critical mass."

TransLink has run into problems before with its new fleet.

Earlier this year, 39 new trolley buses were pulled off the road for seven weeks after some of them momentarily lost their power steering when they passed under couplings in the overhead wires.

The problem appeared to be related to hydraulic pressure, and a decision was made to upgrade the hydraulic pumps.

All of TransLink's trolley buses operate in Vancouver and Burnaby.

Jeff Toward, a research administrator at UBC, said although he was 40 minutes late for work Thursday, he planned to take the bus this morning because "it'll be that or an hour's walk."

Toward was on his bus along Alma on Thursday when "it would travel a few feet at a time and jerk." The driver had to get out four times to reconnect the poles, he said.

"This isn't Florida," he said. "It shouldn't be a surprise that we get frost."

ksinoski@png.canwest.com
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  #147  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2007, 1:05 AM
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would it ever be possible to use the trolley power lines for streetcars? assuming these are low powered streetcars.....how would streetcar and trolley lines cross over each other at intersections?
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  #148  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2007, 3:27 AM
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Good question.
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  #149  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2007, 4:14 AM
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Capilano College U-Pass

I work at Capilano College and I know for a fact that the students there overwhelmingly passed U-Pass in a college-wide election held about a month ago. Not sure if this was ever in the news...
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  #150  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2007, 5:07 AM
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would it ever be possible to use the trolley power lines for streetcars? assuming these are low powered streetcars.....how would streetcar and trolley lines cross over each other at intersections?
Yes, both are possible. However, a pantograph on a streetcar will never de-wire, hence the advantage. I've seen trolley/streetcar power lines cross in many European cities, it's not an issue at all.
Look at this picture for example (not mine).
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  #151  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2007, 5:36 AM
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In Shanghai, they had some buses that I thought were pretty curious. They were electric powered, but not continuously connected to electricity like our trolleys. They had an accordion-like metal contraption on the roof which was raised while the bus was stopped at stations onto what looked like a high-powered charging bar. Then, it was lowered again before the bus drove off.

I still don't know what they were. From searching the web, I'm guessing it was using a flywheel energy store like a Gyrobus? Anyone know? Unfortunately, I can't find any pictures.
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  #152  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2007, 6:28 AM
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would it ever be possible to use the trolley power lines for streetcars?
Remember that the second trolley wire is a ground. So you wouldn't be able to use a pantograph without risking hitting the ground as well as the live wire.
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  #153  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2007, 8:36 AM
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In Vancouver, Sullivan and his councillor sidekick on transportation, Suzanne Anton, make the case that the city already has enough riders to justify a SkyTrain line to the University of B.C. The Broadway buses now carry about 70,000 people a day.

In Surrey and Langley, Watts and Langley Township Mayor Kurt Alberts say they need rapid-bus service along major routes there, and a rapid-bus or rapid-transit system from the King George SkyTrain along Fraser Highway to Langley town centre.
complete the damn m-line and send the b-line buses off to surrey...
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  #154  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2007, 5:21 AM
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complete the damn m-line and send the b-line buses off to surrey...
and there's a great reason to do so, afterall there are well over 100 buses - all 60 footers - serving the 99.
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  #155  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2007, 3:34 AM
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complete the damn m-line and send the b-line buses off to surrey...
What a NOVEL idea Squeezied.............

I hope Falcon gets this message, its so simple I can't believe it isnt already being done. Hopefully he can speed up that completion timeframe also, it isn't really rocket science you know. We should be able to start construction after Canada Line is complete, at least the ground level portions to Main St, etc.

We dont have to have ALL of the designs complete b4 we start construction, do we?

By the way, scrap the light rail for the NE and build it as SkyTrain Evergreen Line. Geeze!!

GET ER DUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #156  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2007, 3:40 AM
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Prioritys

1) Complete the M-Line to UBC! Start construction in 2010 (not 2016).

1a) Work on new WCE routes, and make 'em all day to boost ridership - ala Chicago's Metra network (not just rush hour directional).

1b) Provide some cash for Vancouver's downtown trolley, so a Full Time route between GI and CP/Waterfront Station is in place in time for the Olympics. This should be a no brainer and shouldn't really cost anything.

2) Complete the E-Line as a SkyTrain extension. Start 2009 (or 2012).

3) Once the M-Line extension is complete, send 1/2 of the b-line busses to Surrey (SOF) and develop new B-Line's as express between suburbs and downtown.

4) Begin studying extending the Expo Line to Langley/Abbotsford and start construction in 2016.
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  #157  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2007, 4:55 AM
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We dont have to have ALL of the designs complete b4 we start construction, do we?
Well, that's partially how the convention centre budget went from $495 million to nearly $900 million....but then again, a lot of the Canada Line wasn't designed when the first shovels started to dig.

Hopefully, he does fast track it...starting construction in 2021 is ridiculous. After the study, planning, and consultation is done, start construction at the end of 2010 or early 2011 for a late-2014/early-2015 completion.
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  #158  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2007, 5:00 AM
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can we petition for that ^ ???

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  #159  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2007, 5:45 AM
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probrably could. Just need someone with a liberal-Vancouver riding to start the petition, we all can sign it, you Vancouverites can go door-door, and we're good.
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  #160  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2007, 1:00 AM
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Prioritys

1) Complete the M-Line to UBC! Start construction in 2010 (not 2016).
good idea. looks like Sam Sullivan agrees.
Quote:
1a) Work on new WCE routes, and make 'em all day to boost ridership - ala Chicago's Metra network (not just rush hour directional).
good idea, but negotiation with cp is required... also, a use case scenario would have to be done... I'm not quite sure it would attract THAT many riders.
Quote:
1b) Provide some cash for Vancouver's downtown trolley, so a Full Time route between GI and CP/Waterfront Station is in place in time for the Olympics. This should be a no brainer and shouldn't really cost anything.
no brainer indeed
Quote:
2) Complete the E-Line as a SkyTrain extension. Start 2009 (or 2012).
to where? Newton? Guildford? Or are you talking about a Hastings Extension from downtown waterfront terminus
Quote:
3) Once the M-Line extension is complete, send 1/2 of the b-line busses to Surrey (SOF) and develop new B-Line's as express between suburbs and downtown.
I don't think a downtown express is THAT vital. We already have a downtown express... and it's faster than the bus.... it's called skytrain. All buses usually terminate at a skytrain. B-Line buses, if there is demand, are more useful for medium heavy capacity runs.
Quote:
4) Begin studying extending the Expo Line to Langley/Abbotsford and start construction in 2016.
refer to following map (and check distances) to see why this is not a good use of limited funds:


Seriously... where would you even run a skytrain to in Abbotsford? How many raspberry farms would you need to pass before you get to "farmer joe station." I would question whether skytrain is even viable out to Langley at this time. I'm not picking on Abbotsford here, it's a large and developing city in its own right, but there is a LOT of agricultural land between Abbotsford and Langley.

Besides, Being on a skytrain from Abbotsford isn't my idea of a quality trip. If I'm going to be on a train from Abby to downtown, I'm going to want a cushioned seat, a reasonably quiet ride and fewer transfers. No one is going to ride skytrain for 2-2.5 hours. (West Coast Express takes 2 hours with fewer stops, a quiet comfortable ride, and NO STOPS between Mission and Maple Ridge). You can't say riders will take it to Langley, because both Abbotsford and Langley don't anything resembling a city core, or a centralized employment district. Surrey is making strides in this Area, however... it will be a while before Langley does.

Those places are better served with LRT internally and Commuter Rail to the city centre.

Last edited by twoNeurons; Nov 27, 2007 at 1:11 AM.
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