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  #21  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2018, 4:31 PM
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I grew up Upstate and had just one rule as a high school kid...stay away from NYC since it was a cesspool at the time.
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  #22  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2018, 4:39 PM
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Very important film here on NYC in 1970s - watch, and learn.
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  #23  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2018, 5:06 PM
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Originally Posted by BG918 View Post
Fascinating. No U.S. city appears to have transformed in the past 30 years like NYC.
I imagine there are still older people from the interior states who think NYC is an unsafe decrepit city.
I talk to them all the time. They're work clients. It seems the over-60 cohort, for the most part, still believes that NYC is stuck in the 1970's.

I recently talked to an older guy who couldn't believe people would actually choose to live in Williamsburg. He was born there in the 1930's and said no amount of money would be sufficient for him to move back.

But he lives in exurban Sunbelt, and that generation, speaking generally, seems to detest U.S. cities. He would probably be floored that a 900 square foot Williamsburg 2 bedroom costs 2x that of his suburban mini-"mansion."
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  #24  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2018, 5:38 PM
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I talk to them all the time. They're work clients. It seems the over-60 cohort, for the most part, still believes that NYC is stuck in the 1970's.

I recently talked to an older guy who couldn't believe people would actually choose to live in Williamsburg. He was born there in the 1930's and said no amount of money would be sufficient for him to move back.

But he lives in exurban Sunbelt, and that generation, speaking generally, seems to detest U.S. cities. He would probably be floored that a 900 square foot Williamsburg 2 bedroom costs 2x that of his suburban mini-"mansion."
I got married in Park Lane Hotel in 2016 and my mom was in NY for the first time she moved away...back during the Taxi Driver era and when the Son of Sam was running around. She worried that we were too close to Central Park and that the city would still be the same as it was 40 years ago...despite religiously watching Law & Order for the past 20 years and seeing how much it has changed. I had to remind her Houston far more dangerous than New York by a long shot.
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  #25  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2018, 5:41 PM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
If only we knew! Especially in parts of Brooklyn. That same property, 100-300k is now 3-4 million.
That would be a financially poor use of a time machine trip to the mid-1970s when you could instead buy a used convertible Hemi 'cuda for a tiny fraction of what a Brooklyn property would've cost you at the time.
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  #26  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2018, 7:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BG918 View Post
Fascinating. No U.S. city appears to have transformed in the past 30 years like NYC.
Hippies and Haight-Ashbury aside, San Francisco is miraculously different today than in the 1960s or early 1970s--so you may be right about 30 years but make it 50 and not so much. San Francisco owes much of its revival to gay men who renovated much of the old Victorian architecture in the 1970s but even in 1982 when I was looking you could buy unrenovated homes in what are now great locations for around $200,000. I had come to SF because of a job transfer and needed to get right to work--no time to worry about repairing old foundations and roofs and plumbing so I skipped the old houses and bought a new construction condo and even those were, by today's standards, pretty reasonable at around $200/sq ft.

But the pictures of the beautiful Victorians and Edwardians of today back then were depressing: missing clapboards, paint peeling, broken windows. The previous largely white middle class owners fled to the suburbs in the 1950s and early 1960s and either sold the property for what they could get which wasn't much or left it to fall apart. Then the bohemian set, gay and otherwise, arrived and moved in.
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  #27  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2018, 8:01 PM
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The Upper West Side was a mixed bag up until the late 80s or early 90s. Central Park West was always pretty classy even though down at street level there was an amazingly crowded and active nightly homosexual street cruising scene going on along the perimeter of the park until the late 1970s when the park benches began to be taken over by the homeless. Riverside Drive tended to hold on to a vaguely upper middle class residential base throughout the period. Ditto for lower West End Ave, especially below 96th St. There was a definite Mittel Europa feeling to the area, probably because so many refugees from Nazi Germany took up residence in the area a few decades earlier. West End Ave has an amazing stock of fine pre WW2(or earlier) apartment buildings. I briefly (circa 1972) lived in a large 3 bedroom top floor apartment at 101st and West End. I shared it with two Columbia students. My rent for a single bedroom was about $100. I was alone there one afternoon when I suddenly heard a noise in the dining room (the huge apartment had a separate dining room) and discovered that somebody was trying to lower themselves in through the open window from the roof of the building. I was not prepared to try to fight this daring intruder, figuring he was probably at least armed with a knife, so I took off down the stairs (no waiting for an elevator). This burglar came running after me. I finally turned to face off with him about six floors down, but he kept running past me and made it to the lobby and out of the building. That was a fairly typical story for the Upper West Side at that point in time. William Burrough's Hotel Lamprey was just up the street at 103rd and B'way. Here's how he described the area:

"103rd and Broadway looks like any Broadway block. A cafeteria, a movie, stores. In the middle of Broadway is an island with some grass and benches placed at intervals. 103rd is a subway stop, a crowded block. This is junk territory. Junk haunts the cafeteria, roams up and down the block, sometimes half-crossing Broadway to rest on one of the island benches. A ghost in daylight on a crowded street. You could always find a few junkies sitting in the cafeteria or standing around outside with coat collars turned up, spitting on the sidewalk and looking up and down the street as they waited for the connection. In summer, they sit on the island benches, huddled like so many vultures in their dark suits."

A similar scene revealed itself down at 72nd and Broadway in an area known at the time as "Needle Park". You could eat your delicious hot dog at Grey's Papaya and take it all in. It wasn't all grit and crime. Actually there was a vitality to the area that is mostly gone today. What is left is beautiful Broadway, which I think is one of the grandest stretches of street in North America. It's certainly the most European feeling boulevard in the city. Click the link for a peek at Broadway on the Upper West Side as it appears today. Yes, it is a lot cleaner and nicer, if you can afford it.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Br...!4d-73.9820683

Last edited by austlar1; Apr 3, 2018 at 9:02 PM.
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  #28  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2018, 8:19 PM
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Originally Posted by austlar1 View Post
William Burrough's Hotel Lamprey was just up the street at 103rd and B'way. Here's how he described the area:

"103rd and Broadway looks like any Broadway block. A cafeteria, a movie, stores. In the middle of Broadway is an island with some grass and benches placed at intervals. 103rd is a subway stop, a crowded block. This is junk territory. Junk haunts the cafeteria, roams up and down the block, sometimes half-crossing Broadway to rest on one of the island benches. A ghost in daylight on a crowded street.
You could always find a few junkies sitting in the cafeteria or standing around outside with coat collars turned up, spitting on the sidewalk and looking up and down the street as they waited for the connection. In summer, they sit on the island benches, huddled like so many vultures in their dark suits."

A similar scene revealed itself down at 72nd and Broadway in an area known at the time as "Needle Park". You could eat your delicious hot dog at Grey's Papaya and take it all in. It wasn't all grit and crime. Actually there was a vitality to the area that is mostly gone today. What is left is beautiful Broadway, which I think is one of the grandest stretches of street in North America. It's certainly the most European feeling boulevard in the city.

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  #29  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2018, 8:29 PM
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I wish I could have seen the UWS during that era. The elderly German Jewish pensioners, the addicts, poor Puerto Rican newcomers, upper class dowagers holding on in the nicer buildings. A neighboring teetering on the edge of decline and revival. It must have been fascinating.
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  #30  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2018, 8:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
Hippies and Haight-Ashbury aside, San Francisco is miraculously different today than in the 1960s or early 1970s--so you may be right about 30 years but make it 50 and not so much. San Francisco owes much of its revival to gay men who renovated much of the old Victorian architecture in the 1970s but even in 1982 when I was looking you could buy unrenovated homes in what are now great locations for around $200,000. I had come to SF because of a job transfer and needed to get right to work--no time to worry about repairing old foundations and roofs and plumbing so I skipped the old houses and bought a new construction condo and even those were, by today's standards, pretty reasonable at around $200/sq ft.

But the pictures of the beautiful Victorians and Edwardians of today back then were depressing: missing clapboards, paint peeling, broken windows. The previous largely white middle class owners fled to the suburbs in the 1950s and early 1960s and either sold the property for what they could get which wasn't much or left it to fall apart. Then the bohemian set, gay and otherwise, arrived and moved in.
That was San Francisco when I arrived in 1974. I came west with a group of six gay friends. We all found cheap housing in The Castro, Mission District, or the Haight. The town looked great from a distance, but up close it was frequently quite run down and even seedy. That began to change quickly as gentrification took hold, and this was even before the emergence of so much high tech money and highly paid tech workers. It was that "bohemian set" mostly who got the ball rolling. People need to give Boomers more credit (if that is what is due) for reinvigorating things in urban America. Not everybody from that period flocked to the burbs.
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  #31  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2018, 8:35 PM
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NYC has a lower murder rate than even some Canadian cities these days.
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  #32  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2018, 8:59 PM
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I wish I could have seen the UWS during that era. The elderly German Jewish pensioners, the addicts, poor Puerto Rican newcomers, upper class dowagers holding on in the nicer buildings. A neighboring teetering on the edge of decline and revival. It must have been fascinating.
That is a very accurate description of a very special place and time.
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  #33  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by BG918 View Post
Fascinating. No U.S. city appears to have transformed in the past 30 years like NYC.

I imagine there are still older people from the interior states who think NYC is an unsafe decrepit city. ....
my parents grew up in new york city in the 50s, 60, and left in the 70s.

when i studied architecture and began to appreciate cities, i started to spend time in new york and was amazed. it had started to clean up it's act, although not to the extent it has today.

when i asked my dad to come visit with me, or ask him why he never moved back or considered moving back, his comment "why would i ever go back to that shithole. leaving new york was the best thing your mom and i ever did."

if he was alive today he still wouldn't go back, but if he and my mom were young professionals in their late 20s in new york today, my guess is they wouldn't have left.
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  #34  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 2:09 AM
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Like I said before, the best recent era for NYC IMO was the 90s. Low crime, still cheap in many neighborhoods, more down to earth and chill. The early 2000s would have been the same if it wasn't for 9/11.
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  #35  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 2:42 AM
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Interesting stories by all. My dad had a close friend who was single & worked for American Express back in the early 1970's and bought a single family 2 story home with a nice backyard in the Richmond Hill section of Queens for $28,000.
He sold his house in 1988 for about $250,000 and moved to Miami where he bought another home and had enough money left over to buy a vacation condo on Sunny Isles Beach which he would rent out for extra income.
By the way he made out like a bandit when the vacation motel condo was sold to a developer building a new highrise on the same property a few years ago.
The amount of wealth transfer from NYC to the Miami / South Florida area is staggering.
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  #36  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 3:03 PM
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I grew up Upstate and had just one rule as a high school kid...stay away from NYC since it was a cesspool at the time.
I lived in Canada (Eastern Ontario) in the late 80s, and we were about the same distance from NYC as Buffalo is.

I can report that the image of NYC was about the same. Yes there were some edgier urban enthusiasts who were keen on the city but for the majority of people it wasn't considered a very desirable place. Telling people you were travelling there would draw very mixed reactions at the time.

That's a far cry from today where most everyone without exception is envious if you're telling them you're going to NYC. It's been a while since I've heard anyone say something truly negative about the city. (The number of friends, acquaintances and family members going there has literally exploded in the past 10-15 years. Whereas it wasn't a major destination when I was a young adult in my 20s (early 1990s).

People like my parents didn't really want to visit NYC back in those days. Today they do.
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  #37  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 3:29 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
About 10% of the population was lost during the 70's decade. Rampant crime, a horrid economy... the city was almost in a state of bankruptcy. Things like debt didn't help either.

If I could teleport back to the 70's, I'd buy a crap load of properties. If only we knew! Especially in parts of Brooklyn. That same property, 100-300k is now 3-4 million.
This is not dissimilar to Chicago's current budget meltdown and black flight occurring from huge areas of the West and South side. There are nice areas in Chicago, then there are areas where you can get buildings for virtually free.

So if you missed out on Brooklyn, come buy in Chicago.
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  #38  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 3:50 PM
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NYC has a lower murder rate than even some Canadian cities these days.
For Feb/Mar 2018 it has also seen fewer murders than London which has seen a bit of a spike recently.

Quote:
London's murder rate has overtaken New York City's for the first time ever, according to a new report.

February marked the first month the UK capital saw more murders than New York, with 15 dead (nine aged 30 or younger).

According to the report in the Sunday Times, London also suffered 22 fatal stabbings and shootings in March, higher than the 21 in the Big Apple.

Both cities have similarly sized populations of around 8.5m people. New York City's murder rate has decreased by around 87 per cent since the 1990s.

Meanwhile, London's has grown by nearly 40 per cent in just three years, not including deaths caused by terrorist attacks.

On Saturday a murder probe was launched after a 36-year-old woman was killed in what is believed to be the 30th incident of fatal knife crime in the capital this year.

The death came just hours after a man 23-year-old man died after being stabbed in the neck in Plumstead, south-east London on Thursday evening.

Jacob Whittingham, charity head of programmes for Fight for Peace, told the paper: "What's scary about London is the randomness of the crime.

"With young people in London, you have no idea if and when you may be the victim of a violent crime — that's why they feel the need to carry weapons."

Britain's most senior police officer recently said social media was partially to blame for the soaring rate of knife crime in the UK.

Met Commissioner Cressida Dick said websites and mobile phone applications such as YouTube, Snapchat and Instagram were partially to blame for the bloodshed.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...-a3803566.html
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  #39  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 3:52 PM
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I lived in Canada (Eastern Ontario) in the late 80s, and we were about the same distance from NYC as Buffalo is.

I can report that the image of NYC was about the same. Yes there were some edgier urban enthusiasts who were keen on the city but for the majority of people it wasn't considered a very desirable place. Telling people you were travelling there would draw very mixed reactions at the time.

That's a far cry from today where most everyone without exception is envious if you're telling them you're going to NYC. It's been a while since I've heard anyone say something truly negative about the city. (The number of friends, acquaintances and family members going there has literally exploded in the past 10-15 years. Whereas it wasn't a major destination when I was a young adult in my 20s (early 1990s).

People like my parents didn't really want to visit NYC back in those days. Today they do.
That's the sad part, I moved to Texas in '97 (my early/ mid 20's as well) just as NYC really started to take off and clean up its act. Never really got the chance to experience NYC when I lived up there...a short car/ train ride away.
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  #40  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 4:11 PM
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That's the sad part, I moved to Texas in '97 (my early/ mid 20's as well) just as NYC really started to take off and clean up its act. Never really got the chance to experience NYC when I lived up there...a short car/ train ride away.
I would wager that more than half of the people I grew up with in the area (less than a day's drive from NYC) had never even been to that city by the time they turned 30. Which is amazing when you consider that your late teens and 20s are supposed to be your prime years for visiting exciting cities like NYC. Though at this point most of them I surmise have caught up and gone at least once.

Whereas for my kids and their friends who are teens, NYC today is a highly desirable destination. I fully expect that when they're old enough that trips down there with friends will be a fairly regular thing - based on what I see on Facebook our local young people 5-10 years older go there all the time. (We're only about an hour further away from NYC that I was in my youth.)
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