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Originally Posted by Acajack
I've heard him and others say that. That Canada somehow is the "New America". I can see their point but OTOH it's also true that people like John Ralston Saul tend to have an extremely romanticized view of Canada.
It may just be that Canada is at a different stage in its evolution when compared to the U.S. (All of which may indeed make Canada a more relaxed and pleasant place to be than the U.S. is at the present time, it's true.)
If Canada as they believe is a kind of post-national state, my sense is that we're more in a post-national phase than we are permanently post-national - for good.
To use a metallurgical term, I believe that nations tend to be "alloys" that follow more or less inexorable paths. Canada's alloy is soft at the moment due to the stage that it's at. The U.S. alloy was softer at one point as well, but today it is visibly harder than the Canadian one.
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Regarding a loosely defined identity based on "civic nationalism" or a "proposition nation" eventually evolving into a more culturally unified nation, do we have enough examples from history either way to show if it's likely? Couldn't or aren't there also examples of evolution in the other direction, where ethnic nation-states or strongly culturally unified states become more pluralistic, if not "proposition nations".
From my understanding "proposition nations", or at least self-conceptions of one's own country being one have been really uncommon in history and fairly new. I suppose that the US, Canada, and other New World nations are said to be them, but in all these cases, it never started out that way as settlers or colonists (eg. those whose identity were white Anglo-Protestant, French Catholic, or to be Spanish-speaking Catholic for Latin America etc.) still for a rather long time sought to exclude those that don't fit and include only certain demographics. The civic identity came later. A real country which set up shop as "propositional" with no assumptions coming from the cultural, religious or ethnic roots of the first settlers hasn't existed. Maybe if humanity colonizes space and sets up colonies on other worlds "from scratch", perhaps!
Also, regarding the metallurgical metaphor, isn't that what the melting pot analogy was kind of about, as originally used, more than a century back? Though it seems like discussions of cultural assimilation have gradually shifted away from metallurgical metaphor into culinary metaphor (people today are more likely to visualize a fondue or stew than a crucible for smelting metals), also with cultural mosaic and tossed salad too!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack
For lack of a better term (and I don't mean this sarcastically), Canada's approach at this point seems to be the "free for all". Basically there are no expectations beyond paying your taxes and not killing anyone. OK, it's a bit more than that, but Canada is extremely user-friendly for a person from virtually any culture in the world to settle into.
I don't know if that means that we've found the magical solution that everyone is looking for, or if we're simply on a different evolutionary timeline.
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No, it's not really a "free for all". There of course still are cultural assumptions and expectations made about how "Canadians" should act. Even very simple everyday actions viewed on the street like how socially accepted it is for you to talk really loud etc., or how much to tip at a restaurant, or if guests should take off shoes when visiting your house, show examples of shared norms. It's just that Canadians, unlike Americans or Europeans seem to less explicitly say "do this, or else you're not a part of us!" out loud. But, peer pressure and social norms still hold, even if it may be thought of often as assimilating into "western" norms rather than Canadian norms
specifically.
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Originally Posted by wave46
In my experience most 2nd and 3rd generation Canadians are mostly 'Canadianized'. I know that's anecdotal, but our system seems to work remarkably well.
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Even the immigrant generation has no problem identifying with Canada. There was that study a while back showing that averaged as a whole immigrants actually identified with Canada more than the native-born.
"Immigrants were more likely than non-immigrants to have a very strong sense of belonging to Canada (67 per cent, compared with 62 per cent)"
http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/...y-on-belonging
Granted that's just survey reported data so people's responses might be affected by wanting to tell the survey-giver what they want to hear.
Another example, immigrants were actually more excited about "Canada 150" than the native-born too.
http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...rs-not-so-much