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  #281  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2013, 8:36 PM
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Yeah, the more I think about tolls, the more I think they are a good idea. Plus, there are some cool innovations with smart tolls.

This is an article by Andrew Coyne of the National Post from last year:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...-traffic-woes/

I would take it with a grain of salt as I think Coyne's know-it-all attitude on all economic matters doesn't necessarily translate to knowing everything when it comes to transport or transit or anything of the sort. It is an opinion piece, however, he isn't really qualified to give an informed opinion (but I digress...) What is valuable in the article is his suggestion of smart tolls. These tolls will have transponders in cars and the more you drive, the more you pay, and you get a bill at the end of the month. Certain roads will cost more than others, say in the downtown centre they will cost the most, or at certain hours, roads will cost more. I think this is a brilliant and innovative proposal coming from a rapidly growing industry for smart technologies.

However, it's an interesting idea in theory, I am hesitant on applicability, and perhaps our traffic problems aren't bad enough to warrant it at all - maybe for the future. But let's say there was a toll on the CBC by-pass just before leaving CBS. It's the only way out (other than Topsail Road) so you would be obliged to pay. This would do a number of good things - it would discourage leaving CBS and would reduce the amount of trips taken in a day (my mom at times, takes a few trips back and forth from CBS to St.John's in a single day). This could also potentially encourage more commercial activity in CBS as residents may want to avoid leaving the Town (this would be a fantastic development). It would also be a promising revenue stream for funding transit infrastructure - a great first step in gaining funds for capital investment and would help mitigate the approximate 10 million/year subsidy to Metrobus from the City.
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  #282  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2013, 10:30 PM
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I think people would find side roads to bypass tolls easily. And I don't know if there us any city in the world where you have to pay just to enter it (excluding downtown areas maybe). A toll should be to use a highway or bridge and not just to enter a city, there are just too many roads into the city to make this practical.
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  #283  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2013, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Architype View Post
I think people would find side roads to bypass tolls easily. And I don't know if there us any city in the world where you have to pay just to enter it (excluding downtown areas maybe). A toll should be to use a highway or bridge and not just to enter a city, there are just too many roads into the city to make this practical.
look at how many roads go in and out of the municipal boundary ... it would be soooooo many toll booths .. then you would expect the other municipalities to retaliate and put up their own for entering from St. John's ... this would cause havoc on the road systems and the traffic problem ..

https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=+st.+j...+Labrador&z=12
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  #284  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2013, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Architype View Post
I think people would find side roads to bypass tolls easily. And I don't know if there us any city in the world where you have to pay just to enter it (excluding downtown areas maybe). A toll should be to use a highway or bridge and not just to enter a city, there are just too many roads into the city to make this practical.
Well that just supports a toll. You put the tolls on express routes (like highways). I was speaking specifically of CBS. And having grown up there, I can assure you there are only two routes to get to St.John's, the CBS by-pass and Topsail Road. Sure you could take Topsail Road, but you never would at rush-hour because it takes forever at any time, not to mention when the traffic is a nightmare.

And there should side roads to bypass the tolls - but you're paying in time instead of money.

I am not proposing in any way a toll to enter the City - I was suggesting tolls on major express ways to catch some high-volume, high-speed commuters.

It's a toll for the road, not for entry into the City (your words, not mine).


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Originally Posted by jeddy1989 View Post
look at how many roads go in and out of the municipal boundary ... it would be soooooo many toll booths .. then you would expect the other municipalities to retaliate and put up their own for entering from St. John's ... this would cause havoc on the road systems and the traffic problem ..

https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=+st.+j...+Labrador&z=12
I repeat - I didn't suggest that. hahaha that would be madness. If there were tolls on major express-ways, people would still pay because they're buying to save money. And if they take the City-route, it will just take a lot longer (which is another form of deterrent)
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  #285  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2013, 11:24 PM
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And I doubt suburban municipalities would put up tolls 'in retaliation'. I don't think municipalities are so childish. And I also don't think it would be worthwhile for them... haha, not many people go from St.John's to CBS for work...
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  #286  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2013, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mrjanejacobs View Post
And I doubt suburban municipalities would put up tolls 'in retaliation'. I don't think municipalities are so childish. And I also don't think it would be worthwhile for them... haha, not many people go from St.John's to CBS for work...
Believe me, the municipalities around here are very headstrong. You can be guaranteed they would set up their own tolls.. but really, unless you're visiting family/friends, most people in St. John's have no reason to visit outlying suburban communities in the first place. So they would be pointless. I don't think we need tolls in the first place, but that's just me.
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  #287  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2013, 11:27 PM
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And I doubt suburban municipalities would put up tolls 'in retaliation'. I don't think municipalities are so childish. And I also don't think it would be worthwhile for them... haha, not many people go from St.John's to CBS for work...
Don't you remember all the stuff that went down when Mount pearl refused to pay for the team gushue highway? and then council put out the idea of tolling that highway to help with the cost of maintaining it?

and yes they can be like that lol even mount pearl put out this thing for their own transit (instead of working with metrobus) and without talking to St. John's
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  #288  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2013, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jeddy1989 View Post
look at how many roads go in and out of the municipal boundary ... it would be soooooo many toll booths .. then you would expect the other municipalities to retaliate and put up their own for entering from St. John's ... this would cause havoc on the road systems and the traffic problem ..

https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=+st.+j...+Labrador&z=12


It looks like it would take about 19 toll booths.

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  #289  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2013, 11:44 PM
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I agree, it would be absolutely insane to toll exiting St. John's, but Mount Pearl would definitely be crazy enough to try it. I wouldn't think any of the other cities/towns would.
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  #290  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2013, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Architype View Post
I think people would find side roads to bypass tolls easily. And I don't know if there us any city in the world where you have to pay just to enter it (excluding downtown areas maybe). A toll should be to use a highway or bridge and not just to enter a city, there are just too many roads into the city to make this practical.
Yeah, that's why I used Stavanger/ORR as an example. It would have to be done off something like a highway or other major road. That's how its done in other parts of the world. For example, from Orlando Int to Kissimmee. You can do it without paying tolls but it'll take a lot longer.
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  #291  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2013, 12:53 AM
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It looks like it would take about 19 toll booths.

I think we can all agree that this would be madness. haha But I also don't believe anyone explicitly suggested it either.

But municipalities also would not be able to erect tolls in retaliation because it would just mean their residents would have to pay even more... haha, and it would be political suicide.

And Mount Pearl is a special case because Randy Simms is a lunatic.
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  #292  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2013, 12:59 AM
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^ I think there's also a weird thing where roads that are at least partially funded/taken care of by the government can't be tolled. It was the reason why the Team Gushue highway couldn't be a toll highway. Anyway, many of the roads which lead into the city could probably fall under that, hence making this electoral idea moot.
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  #293  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2013, 1:00 AM
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I think these would be the most effective locations for tolls:



Shown in Blue. You would only pay once, say in a 1/2 hour period, if you pass through another toll.

One to catch commuters from CBS on the CBS by-pass, one for those on the Outer Ring for Paradise/Mount Pearl and a third on Pitts to catch Paradise/Mount Pearl commuters.

I devised this plan in 5 seconds, so don't be too critical. haha
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  #294  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2013, 3:01 PM
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none of those three locations can be tolled ... they are provincial highways and they are not allowed to be tolled
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  #295  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2013, 3:45 PM
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It's conceptual. It's about discussing ideas. I don't care if it's possible or not. I am saying, if done, I propose these would be the best locations.

We are not implementing real things in this forum, but I don't think I need to tell you that. A discussion is harmless.

I am aware they cannot be tolled...
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  #296  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2013, 3:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mrjanejacobs View Post
It's conceptual. It's about discussing ideas. I don't care if it's possible or not. I am saying, if done, I propose these would be the best locations.

We are not implementing real things in this forum, but I don't think I need to tell you that. A discussion is harmless.

I am aware they cannot be tolled...

I have never said that we couldn't discuss things lol, that's what we always do on this forum and have been doing for say the past 5 years
I didn't realize you were talking about abstract ideas in an ideal world, in these threads we usually talk about things in the realm of possibility and things that are current events. Therefore I assumed we were having a discussion about the toll issue ... and it's fair in assuming that seeing how one of the mayoral candidates is suggesting exactly this. Usually here we discuss these issues and learn from each others knowledge and experience so I'm sorry if my comment offended you in some way however we do have a thread for abstract utopia 'in a perfect world' discussions:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...198817&page=14
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  #297  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2013, 4:39 PM
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These conceptual tolls wouldn't do anything for the city then.
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  #298  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2013, 4:47 PM
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Originally Posted by mrjanejacobs View Post
And I doubt suburban municipalities would put up tolls 'in retaliation'. I don't think municipalities are so childish. And I also don't think it would be worthwhile for them... haha, not many people go from St.John's to CBS for work...
People still go for drives in these communities. I'm sure there a good few people from St. John's working in industrial parks in Mount Pearl and Paradise, as well as other communities. There have been complaints from people living in Southlands that they have to travel to Mount Pearl for recreational facilities, and I've heard people in the Torbay area have complain about how hard it is to use the Jack Byrne Arena because of people from St. John's using it. I don't see how it's the least bit childish for a town to say that they will also toll drivers, which in my opinion doesn't make sense.
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  #299  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2013, 4:50 PM
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I am not going to post in a separate thread if we're discussing tolls here.

I much rather discuss ideas than discuss events. Moreover, tolling on the highways is within the realm of possibility. An unlikely one, but it's still possible, per se. What you perceive as idealistic, I perceive as defeatist and lacking creativity.

Now that I know the conversation on this forum will be kept to such a superficial level (where idea-generation is frowned upon), I will make less of an effort to contribute in the future. haha
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  #300  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2013, 4:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mrjanejacobs View Post
I am not going to post in a separate thread if we're discussing tolls here.

I much rather discuss ideas than discuss events. Moreover, tolling on the highways is within the realm of possibility. An unlikely one, but it's still possible, per se. What you perceive as idealistic, I perceive as defeatist and lacking creativity.

Now that I know the conversation on this forum will be kept to such a superficial level (where idea-generation is frowned upon), I will make less of an effort to contribute in the future. haha
If the highway is going to be tolled then that money would be going back to the province, likely they'd do it to improve the highway.
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