Second Toronto NHL Team?

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

You're talking about Toronto not having success but you use Vancouver as an example?

Well since HNIC has gone to colour the Canucks have been by far the more successful team. Don't know what is to argue there.

Anyway the league and the leafs will never let another team come to Toronto, and I for one hope they don't. I want the NHL to go to places like Seattle or KC before we just jam all the teams in Canada and turn it into some marginalized CFL product where the Saskatoon Rabbits play the Markham Ice Pups.

[Xelebes]

If the US is forced to contract, then it might be wise to create/let in an oversea league and operate a MLH set up.

[Jstaleness]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

Toronto and Montreal are the same way in that respect, both teams have fanbases that are loyal and fans for life, raised from birth. The majority of Leafs fans would not switch, and the ones who would.. Well they're the fairweather fans who cheered for Montreal in 2010 so we don't want em anyway.

I'm a Leafs fan. One thing I do think Montreal Fans to way better is show their anger when their team stinks! Leaf fans need to become more vocal about how we feel when they are loosing. Buying more merch and bitching on the sidelines isn't enough. We can Boo too!

[Mister F]

Even if not a single Leafs fan switches to a new team, there are so many hockey fans in the GTA who hate the Leafs that the new team would have an instant following. I'm sure I'd follow the team but no way I'd cheer for them over the Leafs. Looking forward to a GO train playoff series!

So there's no application yet and they want to start construction in the spring? Good luck with that. All the approvals for such a big project don't happen overnight.

[reidjr]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

They play in Mississauga. And you're completely incorrect, they had fine attendance last year.

Man, some people here just like to hate on Toronto and don't even make sure they have their facts straight..

They did avg around 3,000 that just around the league avg for a team thatw as one of the best on ice teams they should have sold out most games or come close to it.

[flar]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Yet Hamilton has?

Hamilton doesn't have critical mass by itself, but you can go come home from work, eat supper and be in Toronto for the drop of the puck, the opening pitch of a ball game, or whatever else you want to do. I'm trying to explain why Major Junior and AHL don't register in Hamilton.


And no, Ottawa to Montreal is not at all comparable to Hamilton-Toronto. Ottawa to Montreal is an overnight trip if you want to be comfortable. Hamilton-Toronto is one big urban area. Ottawa and Montreal are far from that.

[reidjr]

Originally Posted by Mister F

Even if not a single Leafs fan switches to a new team, there are so many hockey fans in the GTA who hate the Leafs that the new team would have an instant following. I'm sure I'd follow the team but no way I'd cheer for them over the Leafs. Looking forward to a GO train playoff series!

So there's no application yet and they want to start construction in the spring? Good luck with that. All the approvals for such a big project don't happen overnight.

There is no question its a great nhl market i would even say the best and i don't question a 2nd team would be a hit.

[reidjr]

Originally Posted by flar

Hamilton doesn't have critical mass itself, but you can go come home from work, eat supper and be in Toronto for the drop of the puck, the opening pitch of a ball game, or whatever else you want to do. I'm trying to explain why Major Junior and AHL don't register in Hamilton.


And no, Ottawa to Montreal is not at all comparable to Hamilton-Toronto. Ottawa to Montreal is an overnight trip if you want to be comfortable.

Not Hamilton but Ottawa-Montreal is the same distance as Toronto-Niagara.

[yaletown_fella]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

You're talking about Toronto not having success but you use Vancouver as an example?

And you're wrong fyi.. It may be fairweather in Calgary or other Canadian cities over there, but over here in hockey land it's not just a team.. You're raised to be a Leaf fan from day 1, and Leafs fans are the most loyal in the NHL.

Toronto and Montreal are the same way in that respect, both teams have fanbases that are loyal and fans for life, raised from birth. The majority of Leafs fans would not switch, and the ones who would.. Well they're the fairweather fans who cheered for Montreal in 2010 so we don't want em anyway.

Well, I've spent over 5 years living in Vancouver and 14 years living in Toronto. Vancouver is not fairweather. From my experience I would say Vancouver has proportionately larger loyal NHL fanbase than Toronto. Maybe that's because it's the only major league team the city could financially support. Also, Toronto's new immigrants are obv. more into soccer/NBA.
Also, I find the hatred of the Leafs in Vancouver to be interesting. I'm wondering if this is a born-n-bred BCer thing or an ex-Ontarian thing?

[samne]

Originally Posted by reidjr

Not Hamilton but Ottawa-Montreal is the same distance as Toronto-Niagara.

Toronto-Buffalo is about right.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

Also, I find the hatred of the Leafs in Vancouver to be interesting. I'm wondering if this is a born-n-bred BCer thing or an ex-Ontarian thing?

It's a western thing. Just as Leaf fans can't deal with the fact that the Original 6 era only lasted 25 years and is nearly 50 years in the past, many of us still can't get over the CBC broadcasting a perpetually losing team in favour of a Cup champion in the 1980s. Or at least any team who's made it to the finals, over the past couple of decades.

This has all changed of course with modern television (we haven't been stuck watching Leafs games only for at least a decade) but memories are long. It'll be another generation at least before the Leafs are relegated to being "just another team, that happens to have been around a bit longer". Hell, just look at how long the ridiculously outdated "Original 6" phrase has lasted. It's frightening to think that very soon, San Jose will have had a team longer than the Original 6 era lasted.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Well since HNIC has gone to colour the Canucks have been by far the more successful team. Don't know what is to argue there.

Anyway the league and the leafs will never let another team come to Toronto, and I for one hope they don't. I want the NHL to go to places like Seattle or KC before we just jam all the teams in Canada and turn it into some marginalized CFL product where the Saskatoon Rabbits play the Markham Ice Pups.

Living in the Ottawa-Gatineau metro, I really do feel like we're hot shit because we've got a pro hockey team that shares a league with such global hot spots like Raleigh and Columbus. Perhaps the NHL should expand to Green Bay as well so we can all feel like we've really hit the big time!

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Living in the Ottawa-Gatineau metro, I really do feel like we're hot shit because we've got a pro hockey team that shares a league with such global hot spots like Raleigh and Columbus. Perhaps the NHL should expand to Green Bay as well so we can all feel like we've really hit the big time!

They're both the same size or bigger than Ottawa-Gatineau and their metropolitan area doesn't have to go for 50 miles in every direction..

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by flar

Hamilton doesn't have critical mass by itself, but you can go come home from work, eat supper and be in Toronto for the drop of the puck, the opening pitch of a ball game, or whatever else you want to do. I'm trying to explain why Major Junior and AHL don't register in Hamilton.


And no, Ottawa to Montreal is not at all comparable to Hamilton-Toronto. Ottawa to Montreal is an overnight trip if you want to be comfortable. Hamilton-Toronto is one big urban area. Ottawa and Montreal are far from that.

Ottawa to Toronto is about equivalent to the distance between New York and Boston or Washington.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by reidjr

Not Hamilton but Ottawa-Montreal is the same distance as Toronto-Niagara.

except that while most of the in-between for the former consists of farms, scrub, forests and a sprinkling of insignificant communities, most of the in-between of the latter is solid urbanization.

[MolsonExport]

Also, I find the hatred of the Leafs in Vancouver to be interesting. I'm wondering if this is a born-n-bred BCer thing or an ex-Ontarian thing?

Outside of Ontario, the Leafs are almost universally reviled. Even here in London, the Loafs are only marginally more popular than the Red Wings, with the Habs coming in third.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

except that while most of the in-between for the former consists of farms, scrub, forests and a sprinkling of insignificant communities, most of the in-between of the latter is solid urbanization.

Correct. Another comparable distance between Ottawa and Toronto is between Detroit and Chicago, which has no large cities and several small to mid-sized cities.

[reidjr]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

except that while most of the in-between for the former consists of farms, scrub, forests and a sprinkling of insignificant communities, most of the in-between of the latter is solid urbanization.

The thing is that is changing between ottawa and montreal your seeing more and more sprawl and if some get there ay i think that will even be far more sprawl in the next few years.

[MolsonExport]

^I drive that stretch perhaps 15 times per year, and the stretch is almost vacant, aside from the teeming megacities of Casselman, Hawkesbury, and Rigaud.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

They're both the same size or bigger than Ottawa-Gatineau and their metropolitan area doesn't have to go for 50 miles in every direction..

That is not really my point. My point is that no one in New York is bothered by the fact that the Giants and Jets play in the same league as Green Bay or Jacksonville.