NHL Season - 2016/2017

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by sa230e

If I lived in Montreal I'd be grabbing my pitchfork and heading to the Bell Centre. The fans protested when we traded Kovy, this time they should sit-in until Bergevin and Therrien are fired.

There is no way that Subban was traded against the will of the team's owner Geoff Molson.

There may have been some discussions and arm-twisting on the part of Bergevin and Therrien to convince Molson, but make no mistake - Geoff was part of the discussion.

Of course, none of this changes the fact that Bergevin or Therrien (or both) will be the fall guys if the Habs don't do well pretty quickly next season.

[HomeInMyShoes]

^Yep. Their days be numbered. Of course Montreal was doing well last season until a couple of weeks after Price went down, but then their offensive luck was pretty high at that point. I don't see how a team that struggles to score goals thinks that focusing more on defense is the solution. Even given some of the improvements with some of their players at times.

[Coldrsx]

Edmonton with Larsson, a tough hitting 30-50pt LW and another top 4 D is a much better team than Hall and status quo.

[MrOilers]

Montreal fans will get over Subban the instant they see Weber manhandle the opposition's entire forward lines, plus doing everything that Subban did on the powerplay.

I think hockey fans in the East simply haven't seen Nashville play enough (why would they - LOL) to see how good Weber is. Yeah, you lost Subban, but you got Shea f***ing Weber. Screw the silver lining, that is platinum!

[MrOilers]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Edmonton with Larsson, a tough hitting 30-50pt LW and another top 4 D is a much better team than Hall and status quo.

Oilers need competent defensemen. We've seen enough 30 place finishes with a team of fast forwards and zero defense to know this.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by khabibulin

Between Price, Weber and Shaw, I expect the Habs to be a vastly improved team this year, in my opinion.

Weber is a lateral move from Subban at best. Shaw is definitely an upgrade on Eller and getting Price back will be the biggest potential improvement for Montreal. If he's not 100% from last season's injury, they're still in trouble, Shea Weber or not.

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

That might have been the case a few years ago, but Weber's play has suffered a noticeable decline since then. He doesn't skate anywhere near as well as Subban, and in a league in which speed is becoming more important every year that will be detrimental to his overall play.

^^^ This. Although, it may not manifest too quickly as the overall level of competition in the Atlantic Division and Eastern Conference is nothing like the Central Division, so that may help Weber's impact a little, perhaps if only in the short term.

As for Edmonton, it's not a good trade from a value perspective. They overpaid, without question, for the potential of a young defenseman. I would hesitate to say that they got fleeced or 'ripped off' as I would think they have to have known that they've overpaid based on the present value of those players.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by MrOilers

Oilers need competent defensemen. We've seen enough 30 place finishes with a team of fast forwards and zero defense to know this.

Exactly. Did we 'lose' that trade, yup, are we potentially a better team after what we expect to be another move or 2, highly likely.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by MrOilers

Montreal fans will get over Subban the instant they see Weber manhandle the opposition's entire forward lines, plus doing everything that Subban did on the powerplay.

I think hockey fans in the East simply haven't seen Nashville play enough (why would they - LOL) to see how good Weber is. Yeah, you lost Subban, but you got Shea f***ing Weber. Screw the silver lining, that is platinum!

I think Subban is a better defenseman and is coming into his own, and Weber may have his best years behind him (he is only 30 though, so who knows). The contracts of each player are the deal breaker for me, Weber is under contract, with a high cap hit for the next 10 years! Subban is a bit more every year ($9 as opposed to about $7.8), but his contract ends in 6 years when he is 33 or 34, not 40 like Weber. Weber is still one hell of a dman though.

[suburbanite]

Weber wasn't even Nashville's best d man when he left. This trade not only potentially made the team worse, it irreversibly tarnished the FO's reputation among other players. Not to mention most Montreal fans I've seen on the message boards would have been happier with Hall for Subban straight up.

[mintzilla]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Exactly. Did we 'lose' that trade, yup, are we potentially a better team after what we expect to be another move or 2, highly likely.

If this team is bottom 5 again next year there will be blood in the streets.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

Weber wasn't even Nashville's best d man when he left. This trade not only potentially made the team worse, it irreversibly tarnished the FO's reputation among other players. Not to mention most Montreal fans I've seen on the message boards would have been happier with Hall for Subban straight up.

I'll be interested to see how PK fares in the relentlessly tough Central. I've rarely seen him, as a Jets fan, but (on a small sample size) he seemed to make a lot of mistakes for such an elite player. I'd rather deal with our division rival Nashville with him on it than with Shea Weber, but we'll see.

[Trevor3]

I really think Montreal won that trade.

Subban is a real good player, but I've never understood what made him 'elite'. He's sloppy in his own end, loses his position frequently, and has to rely entirely on his foot speed to try and recover from mistakes (he's fast so it kinda works), but he also has a real choppy stride. I've never understood why people call him a great skater, yes he's agile and fast, but he's not smooth and nice to watch like Paul Coffey was. He scored only 6 goals in 68 games last season and has never put up more than 15, but he's damn good at moving the puck and his 40+ assists per year are evidence of that. He gets $9 million per year. I don't think he brings much to the table on the defensive side of the game and he can throw 55-60 points on the board each year. That's a lot of money for that level of production. That's about 0.75 points per game.

Shea Weber is as good as there is in his own end. If Montreal wants a guy to lock it down in front of Price, there isn't a much better choice. He's not the fastest and won't jump into or lead the rush like Subban did, but he's also not being paid to do that. He should put up 15-20 goals, somewhere in the neighbourhood of 50-55 points and take fewer penalties than Subban because he doesn't get caught running around his own zone. He can actually play defence. Age is getting a ton of airplay, people seem to forget that defencemen really do peak later. It's an experience position and a lot of defencemen are at their best between 30-34/35. Niedermayer won the Norris at 31 and the Conn Smythe at 34. Chris Pronger was still putting up numbers at 37 before he was done in by injury. There's no reason to think Montreal won't get a ton of mileage out of Weber. They'll get similar offensive production from Weber as Subban, better defensive zone play, fewer penalties, and he costs less against the cap. If he retires before age 40 the cap penalties are Nashville's problem not Montreal's.

[sa230e]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There is no way that Subban was traded against the will of the team's owner Geoff Molson.

There may have been some discussions and arm-twisting on the part of Bergevin and Therrien to convince Molson, but make no mistake - Geoff was part of the discussion.

Of course, none of this changes the fact that Bergevin or Therrien (or both) will be the fall guys if the Habs don't do well pretty quickly next season.

If he sided with Therrien and Bergevin over PK he should be run out of town as well. So long PK. You were too good for these bums.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by mintzilla

If this team is bottom 5 again next year there will be blood in the streets.

But the team will still make fistloads of money so what does it matter?

[Denscity]

Lui Eriksson is now a Canuck!

Lucic is now an Oiler

Brower now a Flame

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

Weber wasn't even Nashville's best d man when he left. This trade not only potentially made the team worse, it irreversibly tarnished the FO's reputation among other players. Not to mention most Montreal fans I've seen on the message boards would have been happier with Hall for Subban straight up.

Which is funny because Hall is more of a locker room issue than Subban supposedly was.

[Coldrsx]

Oilers are going to be a very different team this year.

[logan5]

Milan Lucic changes everything. Add an elite defenseman, or at least trade Eberle + for another top pairing guy (the Oilers easily have the assets to do it) and the Oilers are SC contenders. Maybe not this year but certainly next year or the year after.

With Puljujarvi probly in the line up right away, the oilers are now a big strong team.

[logan5]

If the Oilers keep Nug, thats a pretty good 1-2 punch. McDavid with Puljujarvi and RNH with Lucic.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by MrOilers

Montreal fans will get over Subban the instant they see Weber manhandle the opposition's entire forward lines, plus doing everything that Subban did on the powerplay.

I think hockey fans in the East simply haven't seen Nashville play enough (why would they - LOL) to see how good Weber is. Yeah, you lost Subban, but you got Shea f***ing Weber. Screw the silver lining, that is platinum!

Weber's liabilities will be exposed more in Montreal than Nashville. He had a better supporting cast there with one of the deepest, if not the deepest, defensive core in the league. In particular, were his pairings - first, with Suter then second, with Josi. Weber will not have an elite defensive partner in Montreal as he did with Nashville. I expect his offense to drop off and his average to subpar skating to be exposed.