Halifax's Gritty North End

[Empire]

Photos by Empire:

[haligonia]

Man, I love the North End. It's already so awesome and yet is has so much potential to be a truly great urban neighbourhood.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by haligonia

Man, I love the North End. It's already so awesome and yet is has so much potential to be a truly great urban neighbourhood.

I would like to see the north end retain much of its flavour. As it develops I would hope that it will take on a Byward Market atmosphere with densified residential, retail on Agricola and Gottingen and more tourist appeal. The potential is endless.

[JET]

Nice shots; must include some old ones, Diamonds is now gone. Some of the old houses look reaaly good, some of the 'industrial' lots are real eyesores.

[beyeas]

It is always interesting how much of a mix there is between some absolutely beautiful well cared for olders homes sitting next to ones that were just not looked after.
I really hope that as the NE develops that it keeps the overall feel of the original Irish/German working class grittiness of the area.

PS: Love that pic of the bicyclist carrying the drum. In a lot of ways that to epitomizes what I like about the feel of the area.

[Jstaleness]

I like the shot of the 4 color buildings next to the Time and Space building. It would be cool to have more housing like that in front of some new developments as opposed modern cookie cutter townhouses.

[Keith P.]

Hate to get all technical on you, but that is not the "North End", except for the shot of Gus', which is on the boundary. The "North End" is generally considered to be bounded on the south side by North St. What you have posted are pictures of central Halifax.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Hate to get all technical on you....

Hate is such a strong word... lol

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Hate to get all technical on you, but that is not the "North End", except for the shot of Gus', which is on the boundary. The "North End" is generally considered to be bounded on the south side by North St. What you have posted are pictures of central Halifax.

Are you always this confusing?

Boundaries:
The neighbourhood referred to as the "North End" by Halifax residents was bounded on the east and north by "The Narrows" of Halifax Harbour and the Bedford Basin. Its other boundaries as not as sharply defined, but the western limit of the neighbourhood is generally agreed to lie somewhere between Oxford Street and Robie Street, with many settling on Windsor Street as a convenient delimiting line.

The southern boundary was, traditionally, the northern limit of General Cornwallis's original Halifax settlement along the slope of Citadel Hill (now Cogswell Street), and continuing along the northern edge of the North Common to Quinpool Road.

The northern boundary has steadily migrated toward the Bedford Basin since Halifax's founding. The boundary originally ended at North Street, just as the South End ended at South Street. Another community further to the north was Richmond, and was located on the eastern slope of Fort Needham. Further north of Richmond, at the end of the Campbell Road, was the black community of Africville.

By the end of the 19th century, the perception of the North End had come to generally include Richmond as well. Following its total destruction in the Halifax Explosion (December, 1917), Richmond never again regained its individual identity. The area underwent significant redevelopment during the inter-war period and gradually became an extension of the original North End.

[Empire]

double post

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Empire

Photos by Empire:

Very interesting pictures. I am sure that I have seen something similar to your picture above, somewhere in Ontario, probably the GTA, but I can't remember where.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Empire

Are you always this confusing?

Boundaries:
The neighbourhood referred to as the "North End" by Halifax residents was bounded on the east and north by "The Narrows" of Halifax Harbour and the Bedford Basin. Its other boundaries as not as sharply defined, but the western limit of the neighbourhood is generally agreed to lie somewhere between Oxford Street and Robie Street, with many settling on Windsor Street as a convenient delimiting line.

The southern boundary was, traditionally, the northern limit of General Cornwallis's original Halifax settlement along the slope of Citadel Hill (now Cogswell Street), and continuing along the northern edge of the North Common to Quinpool Road.

The northern boundary has steadily migrated toward the Bedford Basin since Halifax's founding. The boundary originally ended at North Street, just as the South End ended at South Street. Another community further to the north was Richmond, and was located on the eastern slope of Fort Needham. Further north of Richmond, at the end of the Campbell Road, was the black community of Africville.

By the end of the 19th century, the perception of the North End had come to generally include Richmond as well. Following its total destruction in the Halifax Explosion (December, 1917), Richmond never again regained its individual identity. The area underwent significant redevelopment during the inter-war period and gradually became an extension of the original North End.

Seems pretty clear to me.

While historical references are academically interesting, they bear little relevance to this. What you referenced is from an area where the North End was undeveloped, hence the reference to the northern boundary migrating. It cannot migrate since it is bounded by Bedford Basin. You are referencing something that is talking about the Halifax of the 18th century; it is irrelevant now.

I grew up in the North End. What those pictures show is not the North End. They are pictures of Central Halifax.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

While historical references are academically interesting, they bear little relevance to this. What you referenced is from an area where the North End was undeveloped, hence the reference to the northern boundary migrating. It cannot migrate since it is bounded by Bedford Basin. You are referencing something that is talking about the Halifax of the 18th century; it is irrelevant now.

It talked about the NORTHERN boundary migrating FROM the "traditional" line of North Street, TOWARD the Bedford Basin.

In any case, it's clear that the actual boundaries are... not clear...

While you may feel that you own the definition of the North End, having been born there. You are self-identifying as such.

Since there are no official documents that I know of that describe what the boundaries of the North End are for 2011, I am content to enjoy the photographs of the part of Halifax that is North of the Commons and South of the Bedford Basin.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

It talked about the NORTHERN boundary migrating FROM the "traditional" line of North Street, TOWARD the Bedford Basin.

I'm quite clear on what is says, which is why what is says is nonsensical. If the NORTHERN boundary is indeterminate, but is not Bedford Basin itself, what do you call the area that is NORTH of that imaginary boundary?

The North End can only be bounded on the north by the shore of Bedford Basin, as otherwise there is territory north of it that one might describe as the "Far North End", the "Northern North End", or something equally absurd.

The definition being espoused would seem to imply that there are only 2, possibly 3 areas of Peninsular Halifax: A North End, a South End, and some "abandon hope all ye who enter here" areas outside those bounds. No Central Halifax, an unexplored area north of the "North End", and god-knows what westerly.

[Empire]

South End - everything south of Quinpool
Deep South end - everything south of South....this area is both the south end and the Deep South end
West end - undefined radius around west end mall ...Bayers Rd. to Windsor
Central Halifax - Quinpool-Robie-Young-Connaught........... Charles St at Windsor is in the middle of Central Halifax
North End - Cornwallis to Bedford Basin Robie to the waterfront
West of Manulife - Westmount

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Empire

South End - everything south of Quinpool
Deep South end - everything south of South....this area is both the south end and the Deep South end
West end - undefined radius around west end mall ...Bayers Rd. to Windsor
Central Halifax - Quinpool-Robie-Young-Connaught........... Charles St at Windsor is in the middle of Central Halifax
North End - Cornwallis to Bedford Basin Robie to the waterfront
West of Manulife - Westmount

I tend to agree with this, although Westmount is actually bordering Connaught, it was built on the airfield... so I would moreso say east of Manulife, unless thats what you meant.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I'm quite clear on what is says, which is why what is says is nonsensical. If the NORTHERN boundary is indeterminate, but is not Bedford Basin itself, what do you call the area that is NORTH of that imaginary boundary?

"...Another community further to the north [of the North End] was Richmond, and was located on the eastern slope of Fort Needham. Further north of Richmond, at the end of the Campbell Road, was the black community of Africville."

For the record, I'm not saying if you're right or wrong.... it's hard to prove either way.

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

"...Another community further to the north [of the North End] was Richmond, and was located on the eastern slope of Fort Needham. Further north of Richmond, at the end of the Campbell Road, was the black community of Africville."

For the record, I'm not saying if you're right or wrong.... it's hard to prove either way.

There is no proof... there is only opinion. The North End was, historically, Joseph to North Street, South was Blower to South Street, West was west of the Common. The accepted definition of each area has changed and shifted outwards since the original plans in the 1700s talked about the "North Suburb", where Mr. Maynard's and Mr. Creighton's farms were.

Where I live, north of Cogswell, only started to be called the "South End" in the last 20 years. Mostly by realtors and new home buyers! I have heard realtors call Duncan Street South End, usually to clueless Upper Canadians. I heard that some insurance companies call West and Moran and Sarah Street "south end". Meanwhile, the West End Baptist Church is on Pepperell and Preston Streets, off of Quinpool, and has been so named since 1890.

On my neighbourhood map, I ended up calling the North End everything from Cogswell to Africville, but recognized that there are places with two identities (Bloomfield, in the North End. Hydrostone, North End.) and that where it starts and ends depends on where you grew up, or when you grew up.

http://halifaxpolitics.ca/hrm-map-project/

[GUB]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Hate to get all technical on you, but that is not the "North End", except for the shot of Gus', which is on the boundary. The "North End" is generally considered to be bounded on the south side by North St. What you have posted are pictures of central Halifax.

This is the North End to the vast majority of Haligonians.
Your technicality is too far.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by GUB

This is the North End to the vast majority of Haligonians.

Based on what? Even Mr. Mason notes that half of his respondents consider my view to be correct. The others likely did not grow up in the area and do not know of what they speak.

Ignorance of something does not make that view correct.