Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Having explored wind power ordinances while I was in Payson, I was actually rather surprised when I looked at the wind maps, that there aren't that many ideal places for wind farms in Utah. We have maybe one or two very small areas that have anywhere close to the amount of wind that blows through Wyoming that has resulted in those wind farm.

If I can find a map online I will post it.

On a related note, there is a train full of windmill blades, the large wind farm size, currently parked on the tracks alone Warm Springs Road. Not sure where the final destination is, but someone somewhere is getting some wind turbines.

I go up to ft. Bridger twice a month... Utah has nothing compared to the amount of wind they have up there.. That place is scary sometimes. It's interesting. I asked a buisness if they get discounted electricity because of the wind farms... They told me that all of the wind farm energy was generated for the state of California :/

[Scraperdude801]

interesting read about the Great Salt Lake's hydroelectric possibilities: http://miktechnology.wordpress.com/2...wer-potential/

[jedikermit]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Having explored wind power ordinances while I was in Payson, I was actually rather surprised when I looked at the wind maps, that there aren't that many ideal places for wind farms in Utah. We have maybe one or two very small areas that have anywhere close to the amount of wind that blows through Wyoming that has resulted in those wind farm.

That's interesting, and good to know. Obviously the difference between actually researching something (which you did) and just a layman spouting off about something he really doesn't know about (which I did).

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

I don't disagree. But how long will it take for our lazy government to push for something like this?

Luckily, some major oil drilling companies are putting tons of money into laying real natural gas and liquified natural gas infrastructure.

The US converted its big trucks from gasoline to diesel in a few years. Many market analysts are saying we are nearing an inflection point with such an over supply of natural gas during yet another oil crunch.

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by Stenar

I was so appalled when I found out that Frontrunner was using a diesel engine. I thought it would be something more like natural gas or electric.

Yeah, UTA is pretty innovative in building a lot for less money, but not so much in dabbling in cutting edge vehicles.

But the upshots are such that our transit master plan for 2036 will be completed in early 2013 for 3.5 billion dollars. Engines will come and go in the next 23 years.

[CountyLemonade]

Buses last anywhere between twelve and fifteen years before getting replaced (twelve years is a federally-mandated minimum), so if we began conversion to natural gas now it would take a relatively short time to convert the entire fleet.

Then again, I'm sure there's a reason why the UTA has not made the switch from diesel to natural gas in all the years it's been operating.

[ajiuO]

I thought we had natural gas busses in the 90's???

[(Eco)nomy_404]

Originally Posted by s.p.hansen

If anyone cares to fact check me, this is my inventory thus far concerning the level of transit investments in the Wasatch Front Metro.

It looks like UTA's LRT, CR, BRT, and Streetcar projects put the Wasatch Front Metropolitan Area (2.2 million people) at about $3.5 billion in transit investments since 1997.


Lines Under Construction and Prices Will Likely Come in Lower

Sugar House Streetcar - Distance: 2 miles, Cost: 55.5 million
Airport Line LRT - Distance: 6 miles, Cost: 290 million
Draper Line LRT - Distance: 3.8 miles, Cost: 206 million
FrontRunner South CR - Distance 44 miles, Cost: 850 million

Total: $1,401,000,000

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Completed Lines

Mid-Jordan Line LRT - Distance: 10.6 miles, Cost: 535 million
West Valley Line LRT - Distance: 5.1 miles, Cost: 370 million
Magna BRT - Distance: 1 mile, Cost: 8 million
FrontRunner North CR - Distance 38.15 miles, Cost: 611 million
Intermodel Hub Extension LRT - Distance 0.9 miles, Cost: unknown to me (probably slightly under 50 million).
Medical Center Extension LRT - Distance 1.5 miles, Cost: 89.4 million
University Line LRT - Distance 2.54 miles, Cost 118 million
Original Main Street Line LRT - Distance 15 miles, Cost 312 million

Total: $2,093,400,000

You said that "transit investments" increased by $3.5 billion but I think you meant "mass transit". If you count all transit investments over that 15-year time period, it might be closer to $10 billion with all the surface street upgrades (such as 35th South, 78th South, 90th South, 106th South, 114th South, 126th South, 134th South, etc.), freeway expansion/upgrades (Mountain View Corridor, I-15, SR 201, I-80, etc.), continuous flow intersections along Bangerter and Redwood, etc.

I-15 Core: $1.7 bilion
Mountain View: $2 billion (projected)

Just those two projects alone would double the tab paid toward transit infrastructure investments to $7.2 billion.

Utah has really invested a lot in transit infrastructure upgrades over the years. 2012 looks to be another great year for continuing investments. We should be in a perfect position for the end of the world later this year. Might as well go out in style, right?

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

For those who wanted Gas to go up to $5.00+ per gallon so everybody will ride Trax think again........


Low public transit costs may not last long
By Peter Samore

SALT LAKE CITY - Drivers are trying to catch a break from rising gas prices by using public transportation, but they may not be so lucky for long.

The Utah Transit Authority reports that ridership on public transportation is getting closer to its all-time high in the summer of 2008, when gas prices last soared over $4 per gallon. UTA had 152,000 riders on TRAX, Frontrunner, buses and carpool programs in January

Spokesman Gerry Carpenter said that the bus and TRAX are cheaper to ride at this point, but UTA's fares may rise if passengers have to start paying for fuel surcharges.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=1956...&s_cid=queue-5


Like I said.......when gas goes up EVERYTHING goes up. So you all can count on seeing plenty of cars on our roads still. I say cars since I bet we will see less and less big pickup trucks and S.U.Vs.

I am seriously surprised by how many people here in Utah still drive gas guzzlers. They are another factor driving up our energy bills. Fuel efficiency has improved markedly in the U.S over the last few years, but imagine how much better it could be just by people switching over to more efficient vehicles (I`m not talking hybrids or volts here, I`m just suggesting maybe a Civic, or a Focus, or some other commuter car.)

[scottharding]

You can't put seven kids in a Civic or a Focus. And if the neighbors have a hummer, well, you don't want fall behind.

[SLCdude]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

For those who wanted Gas to go up to $5.00+ per gallon so everybody will ride Trax think again........


Low public transit costs may not last long
By Peter Samore

SALT LAKE CITY - Drivers are trying to catch a break from rising gas prices by using public transportation, but they may not be so lucky for long.

The Utah Transit Authority reports that ridership on public transportation is getting closer to its all-time high in the summer of 2008, when gas prices last soared over $4 per gallon. UTA had 152,000 riders on TRAX, Frontrunner, buses and carpool programs in January

Spokesman Gerry Carpenter said that the bus and TRAX are cheaper to ride at this point, but UTA's fares may rise if passengers have to start paying for fuel surcharges.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=1956...&s_cid=queue-5


Like I said.......when gas goes up EVERYTHING goes up. So you all can count on seeing plenty of cars on our roads still. I say cars since I bet we will see less and less big pickup trucks and S.U.Vs.

SLC Projects,

When the recession hit, people spent less money, meaning there were less sales tax dollars being collected. In addition, I believe the state of Utah made some tax cuts (I could be wrong on that one). The unemployment rate was up, meaning there were less people that needed to travel from place to place. The loss of tax dollars and passengers meant that UTA needed to increase the fare price.

I'm not saying the price of transit won't go up over time. In fact, the price of transit fares will rise as long as the government sees automobiles as the master mode (a one way ticket on the Mexico City Metro costs the equivalent of 24 US cents). Yes, FrontRunner and buses are gas-powered, and yes, the energy TRAX uses comes mostly from burning limited fossil fuels; but they are much more sustainable modes. When I say "sustainable", I don't just mean "green", I'm saying the practice of these modes allow for the use of resources to be sustained through better efficiency.

The price of gasoline will only go up, since the supply is only going down. Weening ourselves off the inefficient mode (automobiles) now is the best way to slow down the inevitable price rise. If you don't want high gas prices, promote transit usage and pedestrianism.

[jedikermit]

Originally Posted by scottharding

You can't put seven kids in a Civic or a Focus. And if the neighbors have a hummer, well, you don't want fall behind.

That's a legitimate argument for a lot of families--the first half, anyway. We only have two sons, but because they're fewer than 8 years apart, they were both in car seats at the same time. If we had had a third (we didn't! ) it would have been difficult if not impossible to drive a smaller vehicle than a minivan or SUV. Now that our boys will both be out of car seats this summer, it will actually be easier to downsize than it would have been when they were pups.

[goldcntry]

Originally Posted by Old&New

The water coming out of the mouth of Big Cottonwood Canyon. You can still see the power plant to this day along the side of the road. It's an old yellow brick building about a minute up the canyon: http://maps.google.com/?ll=40.623652...,102.5,,0,3.97

If I watched it correctly, the resevoir that was attached to this plant was mentioned in the Utah Geological Survey's Faultline Flyby video (www.youtube.com/watch?v=DByPiCkznE0) that was linked on one of the other threads. The resevoir was directly over a slip fault there. I'm all for more hydroelectric... you just have to deal with all the eco-groups that cry and whine when you want to put up a dam and ruin the pristine canyons, yadda yadda yadda.

[(Eco)nomy_404]

Originally Posted by scottharding

You can't put seven kids in a Civic or a Focus. And if the neighbors have a hummer, well, you don't want fall behind.

I`m not talking about families driving mini-vans here. Just look the next time you`re on the road. Almost every large vehicle you see will have one, maybe 2 people in it. I can not even count how many SUV`s I see with just one person in them on any given street during rush hour. I remember pointing this out to a friend I was driving with once. We were surrounded on all sides by SUV`s and Suburbans all with a single driver. That`s what I`m talking about. Drive according to your needs - if you have a big family, great, get a mini van. If you`re a college student or a single commuter, get a commuter car. That would really cut back on demand.

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by SLCdude

SLC Projects,

When the recession hit, people spent less money, meaning there were less sales tax dollars being collected. In addition, I believe the state of Utah made some tax cuts (I could be wrong on that one). The unemployment rate was up, meaning there were less people that needed to travel from place to place. The loss of tax dollars and passengers meant that UTA needed to increase the fare price.

I'm not saying the price of transit won't go up over time. In fact, the price of transit fares will rise as long as the government sees automobiles as the master mode (a one way ticket on the Mexico City Metro costs the equivalent of 24 US cents). Yes, FrontRunner and buses are gas-powered, and yes, the energy TRAX uses comes mostly from burning limited fossil fuels; but they are much more sustainable modes. When I say "sustainable", I don't just mean "green", I'm saying the practice of these modes allow for the use of resources to be sustained through better efficiency.

The price of gasoline will only go up, since the supply is only going down. Weening ourselves off the inefficient mode (automobiles) now is the best way to slow down the inevitable price rise. If you don't want high gas prices, promote transit usage and pedestrianism.

?????

Demand falls, so why are gas prices up?
By Darin Mellott, ksl.com Contributor


SALT LAKE CITY -- When gas prices go up significantly, people feel pain at the pump. Some people get angry; others are forced to choose what they'll have to go without. Americans are used to cheap energy. Freedom of mobility is a part of the U.S. national psyche. This is an issue that affects everyone, but it's not always easy to understand.

Simple analysis will still baffle average citizens, because demand in the U.S. is going down, but prices are up.

According to recent analysis from Citi, petroleum demand was down 2.8 percent during the last quarter of 2011 compared to the same period in 2010. So, why are oil prices and by extension, gas prices rising? The main explanation is not just in current supply and demand considerations, but geopolitical concerns, which could affect future supplies.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=19582994&nid...s_cid=queue-10


When Demand goes down then so dose the price in most cases. But with gasoline it still goes up.

It has to be greed.

[arkhitektor]

We're not the only country in the world that uses oil, and demand is way up in other developing countries like China and India.

I'm by no means wealthy, but unless gas gets above $4/gallon, I rarely ever even pay attention to what I'm paying at the pump. My wife usually fills her van (17 gallon tank) up 1.5 times/month and I gas up my car (15 gallon tank) 2.5 times/month, so we're buying around 60 gallons of gas each month. A $0.50 increase in the price of gas only equates to a $30/month increase, a price that while not insignificant, probably isn't enough to break the bank for most people.

I heard an interesting interview on Marketplace on the way home yesterday. They surveyed Americans and asked people how high the price of gas would have to go before their spending in other areas would have to change because of gas prices, and the average response was $5.40/gallon.

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/el...out-gas-prices

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

I thought we had natural gas busses in the 90's???

UTA tests natural gas buses
BY BRANDON LOOMIS
THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE

PUBLISHED AUGUST 17, 2010 11:22 PM

This is an archived article that was published on sltrib.com in 2010, and information in the article may be outdated. It is provided only for personal research purposes and may not be reprinted.

Utah's nasty air and natural gas surplus would seem a perfect habitat for clean-burning buses, if not for a previous attempt to use compressed natural gas for public transit.

Back in the mid-1990s, the Utah Transit Authority's environment-friendly buses proved too gutless for the Wasatch Front's inclines and altitude, and the agency charted a course toward cleaner diesel and diesel-electric hybrids instead.

Now, with the advance of CNG engine technology and the enthusiasm of some board members for a homegrown fuel, UTA is ready to try again. A performance test of two buses — on loan from Los Angeles and Phoenix — starts today and runs for two weeks. If they can charge the hills effectively this time, CNG buses may play a big part in UTA's fleet replacement over the next four years.



—I don't know what became of UTA's test as we don't seem to have any natural gas buses now.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50...-utah.html.csp

[ajiuO]

Ok.. I'm not insane. I use to ride the bus a lot in e 90's and rememberd some nature gas busses on the state street rout.

[Stenar]

New Utah TRAX stations named
The Salt Lake Tribune

The Utah Transit Authority has settled on names for new TRAX stations it is building for its Draper and airport extensions.

For the airport line that will run down North Temple to the Salt Lake City International Airport, new names will include: North Temple Bridge/Guadalupe for the station atop the North Temple Viaduct; Jackson/Euclid for the station at 820 West; Fairpark for the station at 1150 West; Power Station at 1500 West; 1940 W. North Temple (with no additional name); and Airport Station.

For the Draper extension of the TRAX blue line, names will include Crescent View Station at 361 E. 11400 South; Kimballs Lane Station at 11796 S. 700 East; and Draper Town Center at 1131 E. Pioneer Road.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53...north.html.csp

[CountyLemonade]

Why can't the UTA just be consistent with its naming practices? Either give all stations names like Meadowbrook or Power (Power? seriously?) or give all stations names based on the nearest cross street (like 900 South, 900 East). And what's up with not giving some stations names at all?

[(Eco)nomy_404]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

?????

Demand falls, so why are gas prices up?
By Darin Mellott, ksl.com Contributor


SALT LAKE CITY -- When gas prices go up significantly, people feel pain at the pump. Some people get angry; others are forced to choose what they'll have to go without. Americans are used to cheap energy. Freedom of mobility is a part of the U.S. national psyche. This is an issue that affects everyone, but it's not always easy to understand.

Simple analysis will still baffle average citizens, because demand in the U.S. is going down, but prices are up.

According to recent analysis from Citi, petroleum demand was down 2.8 percent during the last quarter of 2011 compared to the same period in 2010. So, why are oil prices and by extension, gas prices rising? The main explanation is not just in current supply and demand considerations, but geopolitical concerns, which could affect future supplies.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=19582994&nid...s_cid=queue-10


When Demand goes down then so dose the price in most cases. But with gasoline it still goes up.

It has to be greed.

Originally Posted by arkhitektor

We're not the only country in the world that uses oil, and demand is way up in other developing countries like China and India.

I'm by no means wealthy, but unless gas gets above $4/gallon, I rarely ever even pay attention to what I'm paying at the pump. My wife usually fills her van (17 gallon tank) up 1.5 times/month and I gas up my car (15 gallon tank) 2.5 times/month, so we're buying around 60 gallons of gas each month. A $0.50 increase in the price of gas only equates to a $30/month increase, a price that while not insignificant, probably isn't enough to break the bank for most people.

I heard an interesting interview on Marketplace on the way home yesterday. They surveyed Americans and asked people how high the price of gas would have to go before their spending in other areas would have to change because of gas prices, and the average response was $5.40/gallon.

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/el...out-gas-prices

Yeah, demand is still up globally and ever increasing. Like I posted previously, since our demand is decreasing, we are exporting the reserves overseas where they are being bought up like hot cakes. This increases the global price for oil. No matter how you look at it, demand is still the price driver - whether it is domestic demand, global demand, or anticipation of increased demand. Demand is ultimately what drives prices. This is why simply drilling more won`t help us much. We already have large reserves of oil and yet foreign demand continues to drive up prices. This is the beginning of a new reality and we must learn how to adapt to it.

There is a silver lining to this though. Our trade deficit is now shrinking by significant margins as we buy less foreign oil and sell more domestic oil abroad. Fuels are our number one export now for the first time in over 60 years. Now if we can just better utilize natural gas, we have some of the largest reserves in the world - and it`s dirt cheap!