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  #21  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2008, 9:42 PM
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Is the facade going to extend above the roof line? The plans are kind of confusing.
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  #22  
Old Posted Dec 25, 2008, 5:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Zerton View Post
Is the facade going to extend above the roof line? The plans are kind of confusing.
Yeah, the facade extends above the "roof" line about 60 feet on both versions...

Single tenant version
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The main entrances to the office and trading floor use would be on Seventh Avenue with secondary entrances on both West 32nd and West 33rd Streets. The first 10 floors of the proposed building would occupy the entire project site and rise to a maximum height of approximately 218 feet.

Above this, the tower portion of the building would be set back back before rising to a total height of approximately 1,120 feet to the top of the screen proposed to screen the building’s rooftop mechanical uses.

Scenario 1 would have higher mechanical space requirements than found in a typical office use because it would contain office space suitable for trading floor use. Trading activities rely heavily on computers and other information technology, which requires a significant allocation of space for high-technology equipment and redundant backup systems. Trading activities also
require substantially enhanced electrical power (up to four times that required for typical office use, which must be 100 percent uninterrupted and 100 percent redundant [emergency back-up] 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year), 100 percent redundant mechanical and telecommunications systems, and 24-hour air conditioning.

Multi tenant version
Quote:
The main entrance to the office use would be on Seventh Avenue with additional entrances on West 32nd and West 33rd Streets. Retail uses would be located on the groundfloor, one below-grade floor, and an additional two floors above the ground-floor for a total of four retail floors. The building’s podium would also contain an additional three floors that could be used for either additional retail space or for trading uses; the podium would rise to a height of approximately 126 feet.

The office tower would be set back above the podium and would rise to a total height of approximately 1,198 feet, including mechanical area and a screen to hide the mechanical uses.

Scenario 2 would have substantial mechanical space requirements to provide space for high technology equipment and redundant backup systems for the potential trading floor use (although the requirements would be less than with Scenario 1 since less area suitable for trading floor use would be provided). As detailed above, trading activities require substantially enhanced electrical power, 100 percent redundant mechanical and telecommunications systems, and 24-hour air conditioning.

I'm still undecided on which I prefer. Renderings would help a lot...

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  #23  
Old Posted Dec 26, 2008, 6:02 AM
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i'll wait for updated renders. the height and size is phenomenal but i thought the building was ugly the first time it was presented. hoping for aesthetic changes
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  #24  
Old Posted Dec 26, 2008, 7:18 AM
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yeah, the first render we got for this didn't look as tall.
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  #25  
Old Posted Dec 26, 2008, 3:45 PM
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yeah, the first render we got for this didn't look as tall.
It's taller than some people thought it would be, but still much smaller than what was being planned when Merrill Lynch was a possible tenant. Still, it's another ESB in terms of space and height.

What's also worth keeping an eye on is the Penn East tower accross the street (which could be as tall or taller) and the Penn West site, which seems to be developing into something more than was originally planned.
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  #26  
Old Posted Dec 26, 2008, 4:48 PM
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This is a graceful tower. Hooray for New York.
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  #27  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2008, 8:54 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
It's taller than some people thought it would be, but still much smaller than what was being planned when Merrill Lynch was a possible tenant. Still, it's another ESB in terms of space and height.

What's also worth keeping an eye on is the Penn East tower accross the street (which could be as tall or taller) and the Penn West site, which seems to be developing into something more than was originally planned.


How tall was it intended to be when Merril Lynch was slated to be a possible tenant?
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  #28  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2008, 9:50 PM
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Getting through the Approval process is cake; it's getting the financing that will be tough....
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  #29  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2008, 11:01 PM
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Getting through the Approval process is cake; it's getting the financing that will be tough....
It's not going to get financing until it gets tenants, which is why there is a dual development scenario. More developers should use these options.
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  #30  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2008, 11:04 PM
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How tall was it intended to be when Merril Lynch was slated to be a possible tenant?
Don't know what the height was, but both this tower and 3 WTC were being planned with about 1 msf extra space (when Merril Lynch was seeking a new headquarters). At 3 WTC that translated into several new floors and greater heights. I would have put it with a roof height somewhere in the 1,300-1,400 ft range, conservatively.
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  #31  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2008, 9:51 PM
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Shouldn't this thread be added to the New York Compilation list?
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  #32  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2009, 3:48 PM
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http://www.observer.com/2009/real-es...e-office-tower

Finally, Check-Out Time for Hotel Penn?
Landlord Vornado launches rezoning push to replace creaky lodge with big office tower



An earlier rendering of a planned office tower at the Hotel Penn site.



by Eliot Brown
January 2, 2009

Steve Roth’s Vornado Realty Trust has filed an application with the city to rezone the site of the 90-year-old Hotel Pennsylvania, clearing hurdles for the real estate firm to demolish the hotel and build an office tower of up to 2.85 million square feet in its place.

In paperwork filed with the Department of City Planning, Vornado wants to rezone the site on 33rd Street and Seventh Avenue to allow for the development of a skyscraper of up to 1,198 feet, one that could hold one major tenant with a large set of trading floors, or a multi-tenant building with a large base of retail.

Mr. Roth, Vornado's chairman, has long billed the 1.4 million-square-foot hotel site as a prime development parcel, part of what he imagines as a completely remade office district surrounding Penn Station (Vornado owns about 7 million square feet of commercial space in the area and has the potential to develop millions more if the redevelopment of the station, known as Moynihan Station, ever happens). He previously called the hotel “a placeholder, sort of like a parking lot, but in this case with $22 million of earnings.”

In order to be permitted to build the 2.85 million square feet, Vornado would reopen the so-called Gimbels Passageway, a subterranean pedestrian tunnel that runs from Penn Station at Seventh Avenue to the subways at Sixth Avenue and Broadway. That move would give Vornado extra density through a transit bonus written into the zoning, though Vornado would also request additional density beyond what is allowed, according to the documents filed with the city.

Vornado has told officials and community members that they have not made any final decision to raze the hotel, and the firm is undergoing this process in order to keep its options open (executives previously said they were considering renovating the hotel). Still, the move represents a significant commitment of resources, time and consultants (to name a few on Vornado’s payroll for the project, according to city records: Patricia Lynch & Associates, Connelly McLaughlin, Stantec; Kramer Levin) and it will likely provoke at least some community resistance.

Some preservationists—though not the main preservation advocacy groups—have been pushing for the designation of the McKim, Mead & White-designed Hotel Penn as a city landmark, a move that would likely bar its destruction. However, the city’s Landmarks Preservation Commission in early 2008 issued a letter saying it would not take action on the building as it did not find it to meet the qualifications.

Ultimately the rezoning will need approval from the City Planning Commission and the City Council. On land use decisions like this, the Council is influenced heavily by the local Council member, currently Speaker Christine Quinn.

The filing with City Planning (a draft scoping document that precedes a seven-month approval process) comes a bit more than a year after the site very nearly became the intended home of Merrill Lynch. Mr. Roth has said he had a handshake agreement with then Merrill CEO Stan O’Neal to build the firm’s new headquarters on the site, though the bank’s board never took up the action in a late 2007 meeting, and Mr. O’Neal was forced out shortly thereafter.

On a slightly unrelated note, the paperwork sounds a hopeful note on Moynihan Station (where Vornado is one of two designated developers), saying “it is conservatively estimated” that by 2014, the following will be complete:

-Redevelopment of the Farley Complex with approximately 235,000 gsf of office use, 125,000 gsf of hotel use, and approximately 553,000 gsf of destination retail space;

-Development of the Penn East site [between 33rd and 34th streets along Seventh Avenue] with approximately 1.9 million gsf of office use and approximately 71,000 gsf of destination retail space; and

-Development of the Penn West site [between 33rd and 34th streets along Eighth Avenue] with approximately 574,000 gsf of hotel use, approximately 37,000 gsf of retail space, and approximately 490 residential units."
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  #33  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2009, 6:29 PM
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Looks like Vornado is getting serious about building on the Hotel Penn site. This baby could be huge. That crappy old hotel needs to be dismantled, it's an embarassment to the city.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2009, 12:55 PM
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http://www.hotelchatter.com/story/20...Finally_Dunzo_

Is the Hotel Penn Finally Dunzo?


Matt Stratton

January 2, 2009

The day we've all thought was coming for a long time may finally be upon us: The NY Observer is reporting that a realty trust has filed an application with the New York City to rezone Hotel Pennsylvania's property, ostensibly to pave the way to demolish the hotel to build a planned office tower where the hotel now stands. Could it be?

The company interested in knocking down the hotel is Vornado Realty Trust, the same one who got us excited about the demolition of the old run-down hotel this time two years ago.

But it's all a bit more complicated than it seems:

Some preservationists — though not the main preservation advocacy groups — have been pushing for the designation ... Hotel Penn as a city landmark, a move that would likely bar its destruction. However, the city’s Landmarks Preservation Commission in early 2008 issued a letter saying it would not take action on the building as it did not find it to meet the qualifications. Ultimately the rezoning will need approval from the City Planning Commission and the City Council.

While we respect historic landmarks, the Hotel Penn is in dire need of an overhaul. We can only hope that something good will happen here.

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http://www.hotelchatter.com/story/20..._s_Grimey_View

Grimey Windows Don't Distract From Hotel Penn's Grimey View

December 26, 2008

You know the scene. You open the door to your brand new hotel room, run over to the window, open the blinds and bam, you are hit with the anti-view. Maybe you are looking down a dirty alley, witnessing a drug deal, staring at an air shaft in the face, or seeing a brick wall. Whatever you are viewing it is not extremely pleasurable. Help out your fellow hotel mavens by uploading your anti-views to the HotelChatter/Flickr photo pool, or by sending the photo along to us. Remember to tell us the name of the hotel and the room number with the not-so-easy-on-the-eyes view.



Oh, Hotel Pennsylvania. You have been through so much, haven't you? You had gotten so run down and exhausted that you were ready to give up — and then you were saved from the wrecking ball , only to continue living your life thrown into such degrading and humiliating situations as being given away to viewers of the same network that airs shows like "Parental Control" and "Next." We get why you might be a bit lazy or down & out these days.



But you know what? We're not sure we can support this: a view that is so utterly crappy that it appears you have allowed your windows to grime up so much that, presumably, the guest may be distracted from such a bad view. A Flickr-er by the name of r3v cls stayed at the Penn last April and was greeted not only by these atrocious views (but in the Penn's defense, NYC is a big city and there isn't a whole lot of room for sweeping, scenic panoramic eye-feasts), but the windows standing between the guest and such views are coated with a pretty sexy layer of dirt.

Check out this closeup of the window, which was accompanied by the following caption by the photographer: "Now that's a dirty window. You'd think it was raining or foggy or something. Nope." Gross.

Photos: r3v cls
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  #35  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2009, 4:44 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
I'm still undecided on which I prefer. Renderings would help a lot...

The taller building is this tower by Pelli Clarke Pelli Architects (they are also given credit for those sections in the pdf). Though the rendering may not seem accurate height-wise, the design is the same.

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  #36  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2009, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Derek2k32 View Post
The taller building is this tower by Pelli Clarke Pelli Architects (they are also given credit for those sections in the pdf). Though the rendering may not seem accurate height-wise, the design is the same.[/img]
Right. More detailed renderings of both versions will probably be released, although the designs could still be altered somewhat. But street level and and alternate view renderings would help us get a better feel for the tower.
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  #37  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2009, 5:47 AM
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All the more reason to get an office tower built on this site (it has the largest footprint in central Midtown) as well as the other surrounding sites...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/15/ny...1&ref=nyregion
2nd Hudson Rail Tunnel Clears Key Federal Hurdle


By KEN BELSON
January 14, 2009

The prospects for a second rail tunnel under the Hudson River to Pennsylvania Station in Manhattan received a major boost on Wednesday when federal authorities approved an environmental assessment for a $9 billion tunnel planned by New Jersey Transit and the Port Authority.

The agencies can now apply to get their final design accepted and lobby the federal government for the remaining $3 billion needed to begin work on the project, which is expected to be completed by 2017. If all goes well, the agencies believe they will be able to break ground in the summer.

Known as Access to the Region’s Core, or ARC, the tunnel would double the number of trains that can travel under the Hudson between New York and New Jersey to 48 per hour, from 23 now. The extra train service is expected to eliminate 22,000 automobile trips a day.

The new service also would allow more New Jersey Transit riders to reach New York without having to change trains in Newark or Secaucus. A second tunnel would also relieve pressure on the century-old tunnel that New Jersey Transit shares with Amtrak. The project’s six new tracks in Manhattan, which would terminate beneath 34th Street, would also allow commuters to connect underground to the subways and PATH trains at Avenue of the Americas.
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“The timing couldn’t be better, because the region could benefit from a project like this,” said Anthony R. Coscia, the chairman of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which has contributed $3 billion to the project. “In the near term, it will put a lot of people to work, and in the long term, it will revolutionize how people get into the city.”

The project is expected to generate 6,000 jobs a year during construction. An additional 44,000 jobs could be created because the tunnel would provide easier access to New York City, according to New Jersey Transit.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2009, 4:46 AM
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So I decided to model this.

Enjoy.
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  #39  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2009, 1:41 PM
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^ That's fantastic! I even see the Tower Verre. Now let's see the other version, please...

(Oh, and maybe add a generic 1,100 to 1,200 ft tower on the east side of 1 Penn Plaza for good measure in either version)
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  #40  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2009, 1:06 AM
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Great job, but the BofA needs a little touching up...
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