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  #11081  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2018, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojiferous View Post
What is Kyle Zeppelin's end game? Does he even know anymore? I mean are they trying to dismantle I-70 altogether? Keep the viaduct and let it rot? Force a move to some other route that would itself require years of planning and have other impacts that he doesn't care about because they won't personally affect him?

Maybe I'm just mad because I know a ballot initiative would probably be successful because there are a lot of Denver Sentimentalists and Boulderish Pseudo-environmentalists here - Both will happily vote for anything that prevents new development or investment, one because they misunderstand the effects of newcomers and lack of housing supply on costs and the others because they (like 70s Boulderites) believe that not letting people move to the city will magically prevent those people from building anywhere, thereby preserving their pristine backpacking and glamping grounds. Sabotaging transit projects attracts both of these groups like hot trash draws raccoons. They are the ones that voted for a green roof initiative that was all idea and no planning because it promised to make large development less likely AND it promoted eco-friendly construction. At this point you could probably pass an ordinance that brought back DURA-style destruction downtown if you promised to turn the empty lots into open fields full of native plants and animals.
I so agree with all of this! I consider myself progressive/liberal, but pragmatic, more centrist and open to development. Denver seems to be taking a hard turn to the far left recently. Did we just ban cat declawing? And then the green roof initiative. I would have been happy with green roof incentives and not risk stifling development in the city. But this whole fight against I-70 is just ridiculous.
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  #11082  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2018, 12:24 AM
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I'll be honest, I'm not a big fan of the I-70 project, but the people against it are so irrationally volatile that they've completely turned me against their movement. As for Kyle, man, that guys is something else.
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  #11083  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2018, 12:36 AM
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I feel like Kyle Zeppelin is simply doing this for image/posture, or maybe political purposes? Maybe he plans on running for some local office at some point and this is his way of establishing an image and base in the community. I can't quite understand it any other way myself. He's a developer with no stake in the I-70 project. If anything, that project, combined with the NWC will help him in his future projects around RiNo by attracting more interest.
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  #11084  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2018, 4:59 AM
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Originally Posted by DenvertoLA View Post
Not sure if this was posted already, but its a good read.

https://www.citylab.com/transportati...-pains/544472/
Heh, thanks for the heads up; that is a really good read. At first I thought it might be a piece I had already read which was mostly terrible

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojiferous View Post
What is Kyle Zeppelin's end game? Does he even know anymore? I mean are they trying to dismantle I-70 altogether? Keep the viaduct and let it rot? Force a move to some other route that would itself require years of planning and have other impacts that he doesn't care about because they won't personally affect him?
VG guesses. I'm not sure Kyle deserves so much credit; this is all a part of the 'new urbanism' and Streetsblog agenda. 'We' hate freeways and cars and and any type of road expansion. Buses, bikes and sidewalks are cool though.

Their fantasy was to re-route I-70 along N I-25 to I-270/I-76 and then turn the existing I-70 into a nice parkway. The costs would be exorbitant; maybe $2.5-$3. billion for the new I-70 route due to many issues and say $500-$750 million for the parkway which would presumably be the responsibility of City of Denver. Made absolutely no sense.

Yes, all they are concerned with is their own urban neighborhood; they have no sense of the critical function that I-70 serves for not only Denver but the metro area, the region and the state thinking especially of the I-70 mountain corridor.

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Originally Posted by twister244 View Post
I feel like Kyle Zeppelin is simply doing this for image/posture, or maybe political purposes? Maybe he plans on running for some local office at some point and this is his way of establishing an image and base in the community. I can't quite understand it any other way myself. He's a developer with no stake in the I-70 project. If anything, that project, combined with the NWC will help him in his future projects around RiNo by attracting more interest.
The Zeppelin's are to their credit very special city folk (especially Kyle's Dad who I met a long time ago but The Dirt may have a point about Kyle) and I wonder if he didn't just join the bandwagon for whatever reasons I'm not sure... but you bring up a couple of interesting ones. You could well be right.
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  #11085  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2018, 4:37 PM
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I wouldn't lump the anti-I-70 / CPFAN folks with the Streetsblog crowd. While you may not agree with Streetsblog's fervor, they come from more of an urbanist perspective, whereas the anti-I-70 folks are your typical don't build anything and building anything equals gentrification crowd.
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  #11086  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2018, 4:52 PM
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I just don't understand where people want to be anti-development... I love my city, therefore, I want to see it thrive and improve. i70 project is a huge improvement to where we are now, I want to show off our city! But at the freeways current state, I'm always a little embarrassed when friends or family who fly into town and they have to see that outdated freeway with nothing but industrialism all around just to get into town... I'm glad they are finally making improvements on it, we as a city desperately need it. Even if it doesn't personally serve us, its going to revitalize some of the closest land to downtown like Globeville, it will encourage more companies to move closer to the mouse trap area and start a chain reaction of positive effect. Of course its not always going to be fun and games for the neighborhoods the freeway cuts into, but its just like anything, no matter how you try to improve the freeway someones going to be upset. Instead of thinking on one or two individuals we need to focus on the benefit of the region as a whole. We are a major city, sometimes we have to make big city decisions. Don't like it, move to Colorado Springs.
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  #11087  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2018, 5:04 PM
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Originally Posted by The Dirt View Post
I wouldn't lump the anti-I-70 / CPFAN folks with the Streetsblog crowd. ...whereas the anti-I-70 folks are your typical don't build anything and building anything equals gentrification crowd.
I accept your clarification. I do recall thinking at one point how there were different groups who found a common devil to unite against. The old 'strange bedfellows' analogy.


The L Line has taken off; RTD has the details and TEAGUE BOHLEN at Westword is not a happy camper.

To the extent that I think I understand the changes they make a lot of sense to me.
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  #11088  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2018, 5:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Denvergotback View Post
I just don't understand where people want to be anti-development... I love my city, therefore, I want to see it thrive and improve. i70 project is a huge improvement to where we are now,
Hmm, where to start? Big picture... Denver is very different from Phoenix (where you're from) which has a Best in Class freeway system. AZ is ofc very conservative while Denver is becoming ever more liberal.

As The Dirt pointed out there are different groups with different agendas. There are plenty of NIMBY's who feel threatened by growth/development. As a fan of preservation of both the physical history as well as the personality of neighborhoods, I share their pain.

For the urbanist crowd increased density is by definition good. The vision is for more walkable-friendly neighborhoods where convenient transit is available to all. I can share their desires.

Over the decades freeways were added to conveniently shuss people through or around downtowns. The belief is that this has often destroyed or stunted a good urban fabric. It's a fair point to make.

The problem with I-70 is its not just a convenient route for cars/commuters; it's a critical east-west corridor for moving goods and services. It connects DIA with the ski slopes, etc. It's an asset to the whole state. When it was built it didn't impact downtown. South of I-70 was an industrial area. Today it's LoDo, DUS, RiNo etc. It's now anathema to ideal urban planning. The fact that Phoenix has had a deck/park tunnel for over 25 years which functions well they don't want to hear about.

Considering how different Denver is from Phoenix (in many ways) it's fair to say that transit needs to play a much bigger role for Denver. More walkable neighborhoods can still be achieved even with a rebuilt and improved I-70.

This too shall pass.
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  #11089  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2018, 6:09 PM
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The L line extension will convert this line into more of a streetcar line. It will still use the LRT but only use 1-2 car sets.

With this being the case, would it be possible to add L line "only" station on the end of the loop on 14th?

This would allow people to use the L line to travel across downtown between 14th with stops every two blocks, in a similar way to they can travel between Civic Center and Union station along 16th street today.

Thoughts?
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Last edited by SnyderBock; Jan 24, 2018 at 6:24 PM.
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  #11090  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2018, 6:10 PM
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SB 1 clears committee but opposed by governor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denver Post
Gov. John Hickenlooper’s administration testified against Senate Bill 1, a measure sponsored authored by Senate GOP leaders to spend $350 million in tax dollars to create a transportation bond of up to $3.5 billion.

The administration’s envoys from three state agencies testified in a Senate hearing that diverting that much tax dollars indefinitely could squeeze other government services that need money.

. . .

[T]he Republican-led committee approved the measure on a 3-2 vote — but it bolstered suggestions that the measure will face defeat when it arrives in the Democratic-controlled House.

Democrats remain committed to asking voters for a sales tax increase to raise money to expand highways and improve roads like the failed bipartisan measure from 2017 led by House Speaker Crisanta Duran, a Denver Democrat, and Senate President Kevin Grantham, a Canon City Republican.
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  #11091  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2018, 6:31 PM
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The Republicans knew that the entire $350 million on the table being allocated only to transportation wasn't going to gain the support of any Democrats. Yet, instead of trying to compromise a deal that leaned more heavily towards transportation spending but gave education some of the funds as a consolidation to Democrats... The Republicans decided to just make it a pure partisan bill. I wonder what their highway/transit split on this funding is on this bill? Considering they completely disregarded all input from the governor and Democrats, I would assume the funds would also be earmarked for 90-100% highway and 0-10% transit. Just a hunch.
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  #11092  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2018, 6:58 PM
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Looks like RTD is serious about reconfiguring the 16th Mall-here's something off 9news:
Denver, RTD propose reconstruction design for 16th Street Mall
More than 40,000 riders take the mall ride each day, and CPD predicts that number with exceed 70,000 by 2035.
Author: Denver Business Journal
Published: 11:35 AM MST January 24, 2018
The city and county of Denver and the Regional Transportation District have proposed a design for 16th Street Mall reconstruction.

The reconstruction would push the transit lanes to the center of the street, expand sidewalks, allowing more room for walking and café seating among other activities. Construction would begin in late 2019 or early 2020.

Here's link from the post:
https://www.denverpost.com/2018/01/2...mall-overhaul/
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  #11093  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2018, 7:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnyderBock View Post
The L line extension will convert this line into more of a streetcar line. It will still use the LRT but only use 1-2 car sets.

With this being the case, would it be possible to add L line "only" station on the end of the loop on 14th?

This would allow people to use the L line to travel across downtown between 14th with stops every two blocks, in a similar way to they can travel between Civic Center and Union station along 16th street today.

Thoughts?
I have been thinking a lot about this route lately as well. RTD published a 291 page report back in Dec 2014 about this. I can't honestly claim to have read the whole thing cover to cover, but I have scanned through the sections, and it gives quite a lot of coverage to alternatives at the "end of the loop" there on 14th. From what I gather, there are some capital construction style changes needed to either put a stop there or simply to increase capacity on the downtown loop itself. Obviously no construction has occurred yet, though this might be something they move forward with when they extend the L line to 38th and Blake.

I think you're absolutely right that the intention here is to convert the Welton line into more of a streetcar-style line, and starting around page 102-103 of that document, it makes this point clear by illustrating several future expansion opportunities that would begin to expand the line into more of a streetcar system. A lot of the obvious choices are shown - the most obvious of which would be a Broadway/Lincoln line to Civic Center (I feel this would make more sense if the Colfax BRT were being pitched as a tram route, but oh well). Also shown are extensions to Auraria, a new downtown loop on 15th and 17th, a northern extension to the Stock Show, etc.

I posed my next question on the thread about the new RTD route map, but haven't gotten any thoughts from anyone on it - I'm quite surprised that all of these options simply assume the MetroRide as a given, and none of them illustrate any extension options on 19th or 18th streets. If the L line were to go two-ways up and down 19th street, with a turn around loop and platform around 18th and Wynkoop, this would free up even more capacity on the downtown loop, and provide a one-seat connection from Union Station to Five Points. Why on earth is this not being looked at as one of the extension options for this line?
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  #11094  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2018, 7:25 PM
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Diving into the Let's Move Nashville transit plan

The five proposed light rail lines will cover 26 miles at a cost of about $185 million per mile from what I can determine. Sounds realistic at least in today's $'s. Four of the five lines will move along urban corridors for the most part. The proposed taxes are based on a 50-year payback period.

I am impressed with how organized and how well they have rounded up support for passing this transit plan. There is unsurprisingly an opposition effort that is kicking into gear. There's a history here as one might guess.

Demographics appear to work very favorably for this potentially passing. Nashville has a reported population of 685,000 while the metro area has a population of 1.8 million. Here's the sweet part (apparently): Davidson Co where the vote will take place only has a population of 680,000 (2015) so apparently the city of Nashville and Davidson Co are essentially the same. It's a big pill for voters to swallow but it appears the Mayor Barry and friends are doing all the right things.
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  #11095  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2018, 7:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnyderBock View Post
The Republicans knew that the entire $350 million on the table being allocated only to transportation wasn't going to gain the support of any Democrats. Yet, instead of trying to compromise a deal that leaned more heavily towards transportation spending but gave education some of the funds as a consolidation to Democrats... The Republicans decided to just make it a pure partisan bill. I wonder what their highway/transit split on this funding is on this bill? Considering they completely disregarded all input from the governor and Democrats, I would assume the funds would also be earmarked for 90-100% highway and 0-10% transit. Just a hunch.
I'm not really that shocked, tbh. It's a gubernatorial election year. The bill has a nod toward rural voters with your 10% token to transit. It's not a sexy gubernatorial gotcha bill, as the Democratic frontrunners aren't in the Colorado legislature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SB18-001 summary
Section 6 specifies that state sales and use tax net revenue credited to the state highway fund that is not expended to make TRANs payments and TRANs net proceeds credited to the state highway fund must be used only for qualified federal aid transportation projects that are included in the strategic transportation project investment program of the department of transportation (CDOT) and designated for tier 1 funding as 10-year development program projects on CDOT's development program project list. At least 25% of the TRANs net proceeds must be used for projects in counties with populations of 50,000 or less and at least 10% of the TRANs net proceeds must be used for transit purposes or transit-related capital improvements.
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Last edited by seventwenty; Jan 24, 2018 at 7:40 PM.
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  #11096  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2018, 8:23 PM
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seventwenty... Thanks for the summary. The 10% for transit/mobility is from a previously passed requirement ofc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CastleScott View Post
Looks like RTD is serious about reconfiguring the 16th Mall-here's something off 9news:
Denver, RTD propose reconstruction design for 16th Street Mall
More than 40,000 riders take the mall ride each day, and CPD predicts that number with exceed 70,000 by 2035.
Author: Denver Business Journal
Published: 11:35 AM MST January 24, 2018
The city and county of Denver and the Regional Transportation District have proposed a design for 16th Street Mall reconstruction.

The reconstruction would push the transit lanes to the center of the street, expand sidewalks, allowing more room for walking and café seating among other activities. Construction would begin in late 2019 or early 2020.

Here's link from the post:
https://www.denverpost.com/2018/01/2...mall-overhaul/
Good Catch. I had guessed/hoped they would choose this option. It's the one that makes the most sense for now as well as for the future. Forget the amount but the GO Bonds allocated a chunk in anticipation of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr1138 View Post
I think you're absolutely right that the intention here is to convert the Welton line into more of a streetcar-style line...
I'd assume they'll look at all those options you mention along with hopefully a subway line but that is still off in the fairly distant future. For now they need the next decade to complete the $930 million in GO Bonds, half of which is for transportation. The there's the ongoing Denver Moves and their pending recommendations for which funding will have to be found.

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Originally Posted by seventwenty View Post
It's a gubernatorial election year.
Yup, Republicans are hyperventilating over the thought of winning two parts of the three-headed monster including the governorship.
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  #11097  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2018, 9:56 PM
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There will be a statewide ballot initiative for Mobility/Transportation in 2018. It will be a sales tax increase of between $0.005 to $0.01.
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  #11098  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2018, 1:10 AM
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There will be a statewide ballot initiative for Mobility/Transportation in 2018. It will be a sales tax increase of between $0.005 to $0.01.


I'm tempted to take the other side of that bet. Hmm, this potentially has all the trappings of a very entertaining High Stakes Poker Game.

I don't see that proposal coming out of the legislature so there's the possibility of two competing statewide ballot initiatives? I don't even know what that takes, to get a statewide ballot initiative qualified?

I have always asserted that voters would accept higher taxes if it's for a defined purpose that they support. But going against a no-tax increase alternative is what's concerning. If the proposal is similar to last year's (I'd assume) it would likely have more appeal to metro voters and it is the sound, smart way to do business. The (metro) voters may just appreciate the candor and wisdom... and maybe even the rest of the state's voters.

I call your bluff and double the bet. Your move.
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  #11099  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2018, 7:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CastleScott View Post

The reconstruction would push the transit lanes to the center of the street, expand sidewalks, allowing more room for walking and café seating among other activities. Construction would begin in late 2019 or early 2020.

Here's link from the post:
https://www.denverpost.com/2018/01/2...mall-overhaul/

So they will cut down all of the nice trees in the middle of the street.

Sweet

Edit to add: I am all for this and think it makes sense but it is a shame that some of the biggest trees downtown might be lost because of this.
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  #11100  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2018, 2:54 PM
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For the urbanist crowd increased density is by definition good. The vision is for more walkable-friendly neighborhoods where convenient transit is available to all. I can share their desires.

Over the decades freeways were added to conveniently shuss people through or around downtowns. The belief is that this has often destroyed or stunted a good urban fabric. It's a fair point to make.
But isn't there also the other side of that argument? Lets face it, even though we have light rails and buses going out throughout a great portion of the suburbs, majority of suburbanites refuse to take public transportation. In Denver we are lucky that that freeway that was planned to cut through downtown never got built. I lived in Dallas for a few years and I learned a great deal about how freeways can positively affect and negatively affect a great urban core. In Dallas they have a trillion freeways cutting unnecessary all throughout the downtown core, dividing every opportunity to have a great walking community. Leaving core, vital neighborhoods divided and unpleasant to the pedestrian or biker. And killing every and any chance to having a thriving urban experience. You walk downtown Dallas at any time of any day and its almost always completely dead (from a pedestrian standpoint, there are lots of cars driving around). But Denver is much different. Denver's freeways cut through the downtown core at a very minimum and are vitally used to transport people to downtown and less to avoid it. I believe where i25, i70 and US6 all end and meet up are exactly where they need to be to conveniently get all the suburbanites into the downtown area, and because we don't have all the freeways cutting throughout downtown in every which direction, we have a much greater urban experience because of it.

Now after saying all that, going back to the argument above, most suburbanites will refuse to use public transportation. But for our downtown to thrive at its best, we also need them. We need them to come enjoy the big city experience, we need them to come and have dinner and keep these wonderful restaurants and stores to thrive at there best. But they are only going to do that as long as its convenient for them to get downtown.
My parents live in the suburbs out near where Aurora and Centennial meet, 9 out of 10 times they will refuse to ever go down town. There reasoning? They always argue there is no good way to get downtown. i25 is usually a mess, and i70 is beyond need of repair and expansion. Its always the same argument. I've met many others in the suburb with this same mindset.

So if we can at the very least make the trek that much more convenient for the suburbanite, doesn't it also make sense that it will help encourage our downtown to thrive and develop?
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