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  #141  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2017, 11:22 PM
RonnieFoos RonnieFoos is offline
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Originally Posted by Ballister View Post
You don't say?
Probably should've been a little more specific. I believe it's going to go UP one way or the other
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  #142  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2017, 5:29 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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Well here's an interesting development: Angels Trumpet has applied for a liquor license at another address. I don't know if this means a second location, or a move.

https://www.phoenix.gov/cityclerksit...20tall%20glass
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  #143  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2017, 6:07 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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I'll ask him next time I see him, there was a very brief about uncertainty about the Derby and it ended with him saying he got 5' of space and doesn't "give a ****" what they build now.

That address is the old Sears Tire building.

edit: that application says "new license" so it must be an expansion.
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  #144  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2017, 6:32 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
Well here's an interesting development: Angels Trumpet has applied for a liquor license at another address. I don't know if this means a second location, or a move.

https://www.phoenix.gov/cityclerksit...20tall%20glass
Unless I'm reading this incorrectly it looks like they are opening an angels Trumpet in Old Town.

Good, Old town needs some new stuff the bar scene there is getting stale.
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  #145  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2017, 6:36 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Unless I'm reading this incorrectly it looks like they are opening an angels Trumpet in Old Town.

Good, Old town needs some new stuff the bar scene there is getting stale.

The address is at the Arcadia Crossing shopping center, formerly the site of Thomas Mall. It's not in Scottsdale.
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  #146  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2017, 6:37 PM
ASU Diablo ASU Diablo is online now
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Unless I'm reading this incorrectly it looks like they are opening an angels Trumpet in Old Town.

Good, Old town needs some new stuff the bar scene there is getting stale.
huh? That's Arcadia. 4469 E Thomas Rd
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  #147  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2017, 6:42 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Unless I'm reading this incorrectly it looks like they are opening an angels Trumpet in Old Town.


Yes, you're reading it incorrectly.

Read my post above, this is going to be a new location opening in the Sears Auto building. There is a completion date and floor plan included in the application.
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  #148  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2017, 7:56 PM
gymratmanaz gymratmanaz is offline
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I always thought that Sears Auto shop would be a great location for a coffee shop or fun eatery!!!!!!! Keep the sliding doors for nice weather. Great addition to the area!!!!!! Halfway between Thomas and Oak on 44th ST.!!!!!
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  #149  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2017, 8:30 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
Yes, you're reading it incorrectly.

Read my post above, this is going to be a new location opening in the Sears Auto building. There is a completion date and floor plan included in the application.
4241 N Winfield Scott Plaza Suite 200

I guess that must be the title company or whatever.
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  #150  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2017, 8:57 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
4241 N Winfield Scott Plaza Suite 200

I guess that must be the title company or whatever.
I scrolled down to page 4 where you found that address, it's for the landlord of Arcadia Crossing which is the giant shopping center at the SEC of 44/Thomas.

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Last edited by biggus diggus; Sep 27, 2017 at 9:09 PM.
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  #151  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2017, 10:10 PM
RonnieFoos RonnieFoos is offline
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
I'll ask him next time I see him, there was a very brief about uncertainty about the Derby and it ended with him saying he got 5' of space and doesn't "give a ****" what they build now.

That address is the old Sears Tire building.

edit: that application says "new license" so it must be an expansion.
Good! Now ask him if he'll get Goldwater to drop the stupid lawsuit so this can get built!
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  #152  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2017, 10:30 PM
ASUSunDevil ASUSunDevil is offline
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I'm in the area every day (44th & Thomas) and I won't be purchasing a single beer from that crybaby.

On with Derby
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  #153  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2017, 9:21 PM
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Seems Derby settled Angel's Trumpet's beef by adjusting their development with a reasonable setback, which is what they should have done all along. Derby's original intent to develop to the lot line was mean and stupid.

The owner of Angel's Trumpet has been unfairly demonized here. The points totally lost in the overall discussion are that if Derby were being built to the lot line, it would have harmed his business during construction and basically destroyed his chances of redeveloping his property once constructed. Put yourself in his shoes.

Goldwater's fight against the GPLET is a necessary evil. Harmful developments like the original Derby that are disputed by neighbors are totally undeserving of subsidies. And if Phoenix loses GPLET as a side effect of the process, it's because it was being abused.

The GPLET in Phoenix is used for anything, and I mean anything tall. It's not used for projects where profit is difficult like some of the smaller new affordable housing complexes. It's actively toxic to existing landlords that don't have the subsidy because they lose tenants to buildings they can't compete against. It sucks off needed tax dollars from underperforming local school districts.

Jumpstarting downtown development with it is a classic example of the road to hell paved with good intentions. Maybe the GPLET does need to go. Phoenix bends over backwards for blockbusting megaprojects while it ignores cool organic developments like the Max and Lucy building on 116 W McDowell. We need more Max and Lucies and fewer jerks like Derby.
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  #154  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2017, 9:40 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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Amen, brother.
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  #155  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2017, 3:44 AM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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Originally Posted by combusean View Post
The owner of Angel's Trumpet has been unfairly demonized here.
Perhaps if were talking only about the Derby and its GPLET, I might at least partially agree. In actuality, it's so much more. It's about his working with a legislator from Gilbert of all places to use legislative pre-emption to undermine the Roosevelt Row Business Improvement District. It's about complaining when the city charges market rates for street parking in order to encourage turnover. I don't hate Angels Trumpet; I still go there occasionally. Nevertheless, the owner's positions on numerous issues, even before the Derby came along, demonstrate a set of values and priorities that are far better suited to 44th St. and Thomas than they are to 2nd St. & McKinley.
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  #156  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2017, 1:02 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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He's not moving to 44th and Thomas.

And his voice is looking out for the best interests of a local small business owner, not the interest of big developers. Which is more important to you?
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  #157  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2017, 1:43 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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It is mean and stupid to build to the lot line in the urban core?

I disagree, If this kind of project is a problem for your business you shouldn't locate downtown, thats it. I read an article some months back where the owner was almost lamenting the fact that crack whores were no longer wondering around his parking lot.

I understand his feelings, that he located in a shady spot and he was part of reviving downtown when many wouldn't have taken the chance but that doesn't mean his bar wins out over 200+ new residents and a massive new investment in downtown.
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  #158  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2017, 2:46 PM
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combusean combusean is offline
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
It is mean and stupid to build to the lot line in the urban core?
Yes, for the reasons I mentioned. It was mean because Derby's enjoyment of their property shouldn't interfere with their neighbor's. Much like the right to do what I want ends at your body, it is a fundamental tenet of respect.

And it was stupid, because it caused massive and expensive delays for their project and nearly killed it.

Comparing one tower vs one bar is short-sighted--developing with a reasonable setback gives us two towers when the Angel's Trumpet owner decides to redevelop.
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  #159  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2017, 3:03 PM
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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
Perhaps if were talking only about the Derby and its GPLET, I might at least partially agree. In actuality, it's so much more. It's about his working with a legislator from Gilbert of all places to use legislative pre-emption to undermine the Roosevelt Row Business Improvement District. It's about complaining when the city charges market rates for street parking in order to encourage turnover. I don't hate Angels Trumpet; I still go there occasionally. Nevertheless, the owner's positions on numerous issues, even before the Derby came along, demonstrate a set of values and priorities that are far better suited to 44th St. and Thomas than they are to 2nd St. & McKinley.
Yeah, I think that lack of respect for local control is one of the worst issues with Arizona and wildly hypocritical for conservatives. Phoenix would be a vastly better city if Arizona actually embraced limited government and got out of its way instead of forcing limited government down the throats of people who don't want it.

That being said, I don't disagree with the new BID formation rules. It's a shame they have to start over, but the initial process, however legal, was faulty and undemocratic. If they can't get it done under the new rules, the BID shouldn't be formed. As for how the BID relates to Angel's Trumpet, I'd probably be annoyed too if I had to spend thousands of dollars in extra taxes a year (that's a lot of beer!) for something I didn't see the results of or felt that I didn't have a voice in the process. The BID managers for downtown, Downtown Phoenix Inc, were my enemy when I lived there for what it's worth. I was in constant opposition to those jerks.

As for parking, he's an idiot--nothing goes on in neighborhoods with abundant parking, and the lack of parking would encourage alternative transportation without the additional risk of a DUI, which in his case means more beer sold. It's also interesting to consider that such a flagrant conservative is depending on the subsidy of free parking and refuses market pricing on the matter. Some people...
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  #160  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2017, 6:38 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
He's not moving to 44th and Thomas.

And his voice is looking out for the best interests of a local small business owner, not the interest of big developers. Which is more important to you?
Not yet, but I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if there were an eventual move following a brief period of operating two locations. What I meant to convey, however, is that perhaps AT should move, regardless of what the actual plans are. As for the claim that AT is the voice of a silent majority of business owners, you've suggested that several times but consistently declined to provide evidence. Until some other specific businesses are named in support of AT's positions, I don't find the silent majority claim convincing.

Last edited by exit2lef; Oct 1, 2017 at 7:09 PM.
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