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  #41  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 7:02 AM
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wait...what?
sorry hehe just a reference to those silly Holiday Inn commercials played on US tv.
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  #42  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 7:59 AM
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Originally Posted by JSsocal View Post
Fortunately, (correct me if I'm wrong), it looks like the building directly facing grand central will stay.
The entire block (it's a square block) will be cleared to make way for this development.


Quote:
Also, the argument that we are just losing these one or two buildings shouldn't be looked at in this local scale.
I won't even entertain that argument. If you ever walked the streets of Manhattan, more often than not, the blocks you see will resemble this:


writemeg




But this discussion is leaning too much towards preservation, that issue is here:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=178173


While a better understanding of what is happening is shown here...
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=197082
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  #43  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 8:44 AM
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Edward V. Piccinich:

The site is comprised of 4 distinct building lots on a single block with the Grand Central terminal being our direct neighbor to the east. In order to move forward with our concept of creating a signature tower, we performed a zoning lot merger on the block. The total area following demolition will yield an acre of land to create our footprint to place our state-of-the-art structure in Manhattan.....

Some of the prestigious properties are considered as inspiration prior to us engaging a world-class architect, including the Burj in Dubai, Mori Tower in Tokyo, the ICC Tower in Hong Kong, the World Financial Center in Shanghai and the Petronas Towers. I began building my itinerary and scheduling appointments to visit the buildings in order to perform full inspections of each of these properties. With each being revered for its own brand of uniqueness in terms of infrastructure, technology, environmental, sustainability, I felt I would be missing out if I didn't lay my eyes on all these modern marvels of wonder. So to fully appreciate the pioneering design and engineering features, I went to the Burj in Dubai where I had the opportunity to personally visit the spectacular gem.

Upon my return from Dubai, my creative juices started flowing. I could begin even picturing each of my inspirations clearly. Although each have their own aesthetic, I imagine how the lines and the curves of these designs would make a huge impact on the city's skyline. I've thought about how great it would be to construct one of these behemoths, The Tower over Grand Central Terminal.


We can see the inspiration behind what is being developed here, not necessarily by design, but a modern tower that can transform the city's skyline, all but one a supertall.


Burj Khalifah

Taimur Laghari and Hamza Gazzaz


International Commerce Center

detachedmind and lowell.ling


Mori Tower

a5am1 and mama knipst!


World Financial Center

Francesco Montalbano and cnmark


Petronas Towers

Chris.g32 and friwi_wittke2007
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  #44  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 9:00 AM
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^^ It's time to build a 2000 footer here.
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  #45  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 3:49 PM
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^^ It's time to build a 2000 footer here.
Indeed.
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  #46  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 4:26 PM
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^^ It's time to build a 2000 footer here.
Not enough air rights.
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  #47  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 4:43 PM
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[QUOTE=It's time to build a 2000 footer here[/QUOTE]

Only the Miglin-Beitler Skyneedle tower (2000ft and 1.9msf) is good for this site, but i doubt that a 2000ft can be build here.
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  #48  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 4:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Roadcruiser1 View Post
Not enough air rights.
What are the air rights? And what would that approximately be height wise for a site this size?
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  #49  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 5:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ChicagoSpire2000 View Post
What are the air rights? And what would that approximately be height wise for a site this size?
The air rights limit the height you can build your building up to. The more air rights the taller the building, and the air rights for this building is only up to the 1,400 foot range so it is probably going to be somewhere around 1,400 feet tall. It would only be as tall as 432 Park Avenue.
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  #50  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 5:46 PM
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Very exciting news for NYC. I will eagerly await to see the design of what will be built here I certainly imagine the word "awesome" will be used upon seeing the rendering.
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  #51  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 6:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Roadcruiser1 View Post
The air rights limit the height you can build your building up to. The more air rights the taller the building, and the air rights for this building is only up to the 1,400 foot range so it is probably going to be somewhere around 1,400 feet tall. It would only be as tall as 432 Park Avenue.
The air rights limit the floor area ratio that can be built not the height of the building. To speculate about the height at this point seems pretty useless to me as the area will most likely be upzoned and it sounds like there will be many FAR bonuses given to this specific site related to transit features.
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  #52  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 7:22 PM
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whatever it is, it will soar over the Metlife building. It has the potential to be NYC's tallest.
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  #53  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 1:12 AM
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I hope that they build this one as tall as possible, but the only way that this one will reach above 1,500 feet by roof height is if a significant residential component is added to it, which doesn't seem likely considering this is a prime office location. I also hope that they design a true 21st century icon for the city, something that will be synonymous with New York like the Empire State Building, The Chrysler and the WTC complex.
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  #54  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 8:54 AM
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^ You could very well see hotel and residential space at the top. As mentioned earlier, they are studying the exact mix they want to build on site.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadcruiser1 View Post
Not enough air rights.
Even as it is now, there are enough air rights (its how you distribute the space), and all of the air and development rights for the site aren't in order yet.



http://observer.com/2012/06/is-midto...taller-towers/

Is Midtown Too Small? City Planning Outlines Ideas for Adding (Much) Taller Towers




By Matt Chaban 6/07/12

Quote:
How many New Yorkers, after a long day of work, are headed home, a little beaten down, look up and think to themselves, “You know what Midtown needs? Bigger buildings.” Probably not very many. But this is a question the Department of City Planning and the Bloomberg administration are very seriously considering as they work on rezoning a huge swath of Midtown East, the vaguest details of which were revealed to the land use committees of Community Boards 5 and 6 last night.

Like it has with so much of the city, from the Far West Side to the Brooklyn waterfront to downtown Jamaica, Queens, the administration wants to revise a set of zoning principals first laid out in 1961, and changed little since. Meanwhile the world has, as has the city, and in order to stay competitive with places like London, Shanghai and Abu Dhabi, Midtown, where 80 percent of buildings are 50 years old or older, must modernize. “We need to think of the global context,” said Edith Hsu-Chen, director of the department’s Manhattan office.

Details were scant, but the area the department is looking at was outlined, an 85-block swath running from 40th Street to 57th Street, between Fifth Avenue and Third Avenue, except for a section of Second Avenue in the East 40s. This brackets a section of the neighborhood the department is especially interested in, roughly 20 blocks surrounding Grand Central Terminal. The one other detail to emerge was an interest in improving Park Avenue, ensuring its place as the city’s premier business address.

To put things in perspective, this roughly 250 acre rezoning would be almost 10 times as large as Hudson Yards, and according to one city planning source could increase development rights in the area by as much as 50 percent,
depending on what set of recommendations the department embraces. As Real Estate Board president Steven Spinola explained a few weeks ago during a different discussion on the future of Midtown, “right now, our buildings top out around 50 stories. Why shouldn’t they top out around 80 stories? They do in a lot of other great cities.”

Including in Hudson Yards, and even exceed that height at the slowly redeveloping World Trade Center. And this was perhaps the greatest concern for community board members. “The public is spending buildings of dollars at Hudson Yards and ground zero, and for good reason,” said Raju Mann, a member of Community Board 5. “We haven’t even seen what these projects have produced yet, so how can we be sure what’s appropriate for Midtown East?”

Such ambitions also had community board members worried, as they felt the plan is moving too quickly given its size and scope. The department plans on releasing a more concrete vision in July, which it will study and modify throughout the fall before submitting it for public review in the first quarter of 2013. “For something so big, and so important, that seems awfully fast,” said Kate McDonough, chair of board 5′s Land Use Committee. The implication was that this was one last land grab by developers before the Bloomberg administration leaves office at the end of next year.
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  #55  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 2:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Roadcruiser1 View Post
The air rights limit the height you can build your building up to. The more air rights the taller the building, and the air rights for this building is only up to the 1,400 foot range so it is probably going to be somewhere around 1,400 feet tall. It would only be as tall as 432 Park Avenue.
Air rights do not limit height. Air rights limit space. This a common misconception. The height limit is 2,000ft max. in Manhattan depending on the neighborhood/zone.
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  #56  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 2:20 PM
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Originally Posted by JSsocal View Post
Fortunately, (correct me if I'm wrong), it looks like the building directly facing grand central will stay.

Also, the argument that we are just losing these one or two buildings shouldn't be looked at in this local scale. We are losing a pretty big wave of buildings here, forgive my absent mindedness but there have been 2 recent reclads of large prewar buildings on madison-avenue, the infamous reclad of 1775 Broadway, and destruction of the drake so far. Already in the Grand Central Terminal City there have been 2 reclads of beautiful old buildings, the Grand Hyatt (by trump in the late 80s), and the Bank of America office tower right across the street from this one (totally gutted like 25 years ago). Now there's talk of demolishing this pair of buildings, the destruction of the former MTA headquarters a couple blocks away, 15 Penn Plaza, 516 5th avenue, and now talk of rezoning eastern midtown?

It boggles my mind that so much fight is put in to save redundant row houses and single family homes in other parts of the city, when so many pre-war office towers and hotels are being put on the chopping block with no care given by anyone. New York must grow but there are already so many office proposals on the west side, (which by the way none have tenants yet) and yet we want to put more here as well? New York is gonna set itself up for a bust if so much space is allowed to come online at once in the next few years, and we will also manage to lose some really nice architecture in the process.
Exactly! People don't realize what we're losing over-all in the course of a few decades.

I'm not sure I agree about future vacancies, though. I know that a lot of businesses are looking for more-modern office-space for tech reasons. If there's a huge swatch of vacancies in the future, I would imagine they would be in older buildings.
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  #57  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 3:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Duck From NY View Post
Exactly! People don't realize what we're losing over-all in the course of a few decades.

I'm not sure I agree about future vacancies, though. I know that a lot of businesses are looking for more-modern office-space for tech reasons. If there's a huge swatch of vacancies in the future, I would imagine they would be in older buildings.
I'm a little concerned that with the recent swaths of supertalls being proposed on Park Avenue and the West Side/Hudson Yards, not to mention WTC 2 and 3, that they might end up demolishing the current buildings and only then realize that the market is going to be swamped for a time and leave us a nice big empty hole for years to come. I know that NYC is somewhat of an island when it comes to the country's economy, but things still aren't looking so hot and I'd be very surprised to see all of these 1400+ foot tall towers go up.
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  #58  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 3:49 PM
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I'm a little concerned that with the recent swaths of supertalls being proposed on Park Avenue and the West Side/Hudson Yards, not to mention WTC 2 and 3, that they might end up demolishing the current buildings .
I don't know why you would be. There's only one supertall going up or proposed on Park Avenue (that's 432 Park). Park Avenue will remain Park Avenue if the City has it's way.


Quote:
Details were scant, but the area the department is looking at was outlined, an 85-block swath running from 40th Street to 57th Street, between Fifth Avenue and Third Avenue, except for a section of Second Avenue in the East 40s. This brackets a section of the neighborhood the department is especially interested in, roughly 20 blocks surrounding Grand Central Terminal. The one other detail to emerge was an interest in improving Park Avenue, ensuring its place as the city’s premier business address.

The east side of Manhattan is not a huge swath of unused space like the west side of Manhattan. That's the difference between the east side and the Hudson Yards. On the west side, virtually everything going up will be surrounded by something else that just went up. It will be an entirely new business district. On the east side however, what you will have is a traditional business district peppered with new development. That is all it is, and the City is trying to encourage developers to build there.




http://news.stockmarketvideo.com/sl-...uilding/11505/
SL Green Realty Thinking of Mega Building

June 4, 2012
By Tim Rao

Quote:
New York’s biggest office building possessor but a comparatively inexperienced maker of new buildings has made a new move in its striving intentions to create a trophy office tower accross the street from Grand Central Terminal.

SL Green has hired one of the nation’s most well-known office constructors, Hines of Houston, Texas, to work as a consultant on the 1.2 million-square-foot venture. The group is in the initial stages of making up intentions for the block-long site on Madison Avenue in 42nd and 43rd streets, as per stated by people closely related with the issue.


http://www.irealtytimes.com/articles...s-proposed.htm
Flurry Of New Manhattan Office Towers Proposed

By Staff Reporter
June 4, 2012

Quote:
When Boston Properties new midtown Manhattan office tower is completed sometime next year, it will be the first new office tower on the market on the island in four years. And despite the euro zone recovery and slower-than-expected recovery of the national real estate market, quite a few developers are rushing to join Boston Properties, whose SOM-designed 250 West 55th Street tower will have approximately 1 million square feet of class-A office space.

The most recent contender to throw its hand into the ring is the city's largest office landlord, SL Green. According to the Wall Street Journal, the property firm has hired Houston-based developer Hines as a consultant on the project, which will be the firm's first foray into large-scale new development....The new construction depends on both financing and the upzoning of the area around Grand Central, which the Bloomberg administration has been pushing as its last major real estate initiative before his third, and final, mayoral term is up in 2013.

If the firm does go through with the plan, they'll encounter fierce competition from other developers. Just a week before the Journal's article, the New York Post's Steve Cuozzo outted Extell's Gary Barnett as wanting to name a new 57-story, 1.7 million sq. ft. office tower just north of Hudson Yards "1 Hudson Yards," sparking the ire of Related Companies' Stephen Ross, whose firm is planning a large complex of office towers above the rail yards west of Penn Station. Related has tapped Coach as an anchor tenant for the towers, but still needs to pre-lease more space before it can begin construction.

There aren't going to be whole major swaths of the east side demolished for development. Developers are only going to build what they can, and if they can it is only because of demand.
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  #59  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 4:28 PM
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Yeah, the developers have very little if any desire to demolish a leased, income producing million square foot building to create an empty lot in order to put up a 2 or 3 million square foot building without tenants or financing guaranteed. This isn't like knocking down a couple of dinky tenements in anticipation of future development that will be of a much greater scale than the tenements.
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  #60  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2012, 4:08 AM
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Originally Posted by scalziand View Post
Yeah, the developers have very little if any desire to demolish a leased, income producing million square foot building to create an empty lot in order to put up a 2 or 3 million square foot building without tenants or financing guaranteed. This isn't like knocking down a couple of dinky tenements in anticipation of future development that will be of a much greater scale than the tenements.

Yeah, imagine the outrage if that entire block were demolished, only to sit as a vacant lot for a few years in the heart of Midtown. As with the 15 Penn site, having the right to build doesn't outright mean demolishing will commence. Things will proceed very orderly here.


Quote:
Unlike a typical development site, instead of sitting on an empty lot, paying taxes and not generating revenue, we instead have maintained the building's occupancy and collected rent.
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