Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

Wasn't even thinking about NFL/NCAA stadiums with regards to my comment (BMO is smaller than NCAA stadiums, but I'd say it's nicer because it has more amenities). I was thinking specifically in regards to the other three Canadian stadiums. BC and Commonwealth are superior stadiums, and if Olympic gets renovated like some claim it will, I would argue it'd be nicer as well.

More seats =/= better.

I agree with BC Place. It's a great venue. Commonwealth is as well but its design is a bit less ideal (along with being in a smaller metro). Olympic has been discussed to death.

People are too fixated on setting capacity as the end-all be-all of requirements. BMO shouldn't be ruled out on that alone.

[ggopher]

Related to the World Cup Stadium debate. For the 2026 Winter Olympics bid in Calgary, the IOC has made it clear that they want to make the games more affordable. One of the key changes was removing the minimum requirement for spectator seats in a venue.

Now with TV revenue making up the majority of the funding, there is no need to build these white elephants that can never be reused. Hopefully FIFA follows suit, but I have my doubts.

[Coldrsx]

Edmonton to continue FIFA 2026 bid process
January 23, 2018

Edmonton has committed to continue in the hunt for the 2026 FIFA World Cup. Council decided today to support Edmonton continuing as a candidate host city for the United Bid, a unique tri-country bid that brings together Canada, USA and Mexico.

“Being part of one of the world’s biggest sporting events is a once in a lifetime opportunity for Edmonton and we now need the provincial and federal governments to commit to the bid,” said Mayor Don Iveson. “A bid that unites three countries has never been tried at this level of international sport and it’s exciting for Edmonton to be part of that effort.”

The United Bid brings together North America in a unique partnership that will redefine the way global events can be held and focuses on building the game - not stadiums. The City will continue to work with Canada Soccer, the other Canadian candidate host cities, and provincial and federal governments, to further advance the bid. Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal are the other Canadian cities in the bid that currently features 31 cities.

The FIFA World Cup offers considerable legacy opportunities for Edmonton including $170 million (U.S.) in economic activity, an enhanced international reputation and significant community benefits that will continue to be developed as the city moves through the bid process, ensuring that benefits to Edmonton are maximized.

Based on the preliminary information provided by Canada Soccer, the estimated cost for a host city ranges between $35 million to $55 million, which includes a month-long fan festival, transportation and traffic management, marketing and communications, and staff to liaise with FIFA. Limited security costs would also be included, however, the four Canadian cities are seeking support from the federal government for the bulk of security.

The City of Edmonton will sign and submit the necessary hosting documents, conditional on federal and provincial support being secured, prior to the United Bid Committee (UBC) submitting its bid to FIFA on March 16, 2018. In June, FIFA Congress will decide if the UBC is successful. Morocco is the other lone competitor for the World Cup.


Media contact:
Amy Wolski
Brand Advisor
Corporate Positioning
780-465-0654

[J.OT13]

An Ottawa forumer found a great article about the trend of building major league stadiums and arenas in a central locations surrounded by mixed use developments. It also cautions about public funding for sports venues and the heartlessness of sports leagues and their billionaire owners (mostly NFL).

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

Welcome to the Neighborhood: America's Sports Stadiums Are Moving Downtown
The New York Times, By KEITH SCHNEIDERJAN. 19, 2018
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/19/b...velopment.html

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by JHikka

More seats =/= better.

I agree with BC Place. It's a great venue. Commonwealth is as well but its design is a bit less ideal (along with being in a smaller metro). Olympic has been discussed to death.

People are too fixated on setting capacity as the end-all be-all of requirements. BMO shouldn't be ruled out on that alone.

I agree more seats does not equal better. BC and Commonwealth are better stadiums which just so happen to be far bigger than BMO.

Nevertheless, for a major event like the World Cup I don't think you can discount seating capacity, just like you can't discount the other elements that are behind the ultimate decision of where the games are played (such as the requirements for the social area next to the stadium, as well as the amenities available in the larger community). In the end BMO is going to host games based upon its location, not because of the stadium itself. I think that's also the reason Edmonton will be the odd city out; the city just isn't at the same level as the Big Three and the bid committee will take notice of that assuming Olympic doesn't cave in between now and 2026.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

An Ottawa forumer found a great article about the trend of building major league stadiums and arenas in a central locations surrounded by mixed use developments. It also cautions about public funding for sports venues and the heartlessness of sports leagues and their billionaire owners (mostly NFL).

It is indeed a good article. It should be noted that a lot of the really great Downtown rejuvenation projects it discusses (Sacramento, Kansas City) were arenas and not stadiums, thereby avoiding the worst perpetrator of franchise-based hostage-taking: the NFL. Arenas play a better role in urban rejuvenation projects than stadiums do, evidently, although stadiums can be used wisely as well. I'm sure forumers in Edmonton can attest to this, as will forumers in Moncton and eventually Ottawa.

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

Nevertheless, for a major event like the World Cup I don't think you can discount seating capacity, just like you can't discount the other elements that are behind the ultimate decision of where the games are played (such as the requirements for the social area next to the stadium, as well as the amenities available in the larger community).

Absolutely. Seating capacity plays a role just as much as everything else. If we had a 35,000 capacity stadium in Yellowknife I don't think we would be forcing teams and fans to travel there just because the stadium could hold a lot of them.

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

In the end BMO is going to host games based upon its location, not because of the stadium itself. I think that's also the reason Edmonton will be the odd city out; the city just isn't at the same level as the Big Three and the bid committee will take notice of that assuming Olympic doesn't cave in between now and 2026.

Partly agreed with this. I strongly believe the CSA is pushing hard for BMO and BC Place as they are the two stadiums used for Canadian National team matches. Edmonton gets left out because it's a smaller city but probably gets ahead of Montreal on this CSA familiarity factor. Commonwealth has a history of hosting big matches for the National Teams. CSA hasn't had a rosy time of hosting matches in Montreal for a plethora of reasons which would could finger-point both ways. I'm not sold on Olympic being up-to-snuff and FIFA bids should be looking at cost-cutting to bring down the overall expenses of hosts in the future, thereby eliminating Olympic from contention (unless funding is provided for something other than directly supporting the WC bid). Olympic probably has the worst layout of the four stadiums.

However, in saying all that, Edmonton probably gets put behind Montreal because just imagine the outcry if Montreal didn't get a match but Edmonton did.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by JHikka

It is indeed a good article. It should be noted that a lot of the really great Downtown rejuvenation projects it discusses (Sacramento, Kansas City) were arenas and not stadiums, thereby avoiding the worst perpetrator of franchise-based hostage-taking: the NFL. Arenas play a better role in urban rejuvenation projects than stadiums do, evidently, although stadiums can be used wisely as well. I'm sure forumers in Edmonton can attest to this, as will forumers in Moncton and eventually Ottawa.

I could see that. Arenas (Hockey and Basketball) usually have a much higher number of event dates than football stadiums. I wonder how Baseball Stadiums fare considering they host 81 home games per year.

[J.OT13]

In other news, the Sens are one step closer to moving back to Ottawa.

Originally Posted by daud

Garrioch: NCC and RendezVous LeBreton have reached agreement in principle for Flats development

The National Capital Commission and the RendezVous LeBreton Group are expected to announce an agreement in principle to redevelop LeBreton Flats Thursday.

Two well-placed sources told this newspaper Tuesday that the NCC and RendezVous LeBreton have reached a land transfer agreement and they could be ready to make the next step in what will lead to the building of a downtown arena to house the Ottawa Senators.

While the deal won’t be completely finalized during Thursday’s meeting of the NCC board of directors, this is a major step forward in these talks.

It’s believed the RendesVouz group — a partnership between Senators’ owner Eugene Melnyk and John Ruddy of Trinity Developments — will then have six to 12 months to get the financing in place for the massive $3 billion development which could change the face of the city.

Mark Kristmanson, the NCC’s chief operating officer, indicated late last year this would be a “milestone” meeting for the board of directors, who are being briefed “in camera” on the details of the agreement Wednesday.


Moving this project to the next step is significant because the negotiations between the two sides have been ongoing since RendezVous LeBreton was given preferred bidder status by the NCC in April, 2016.

It’s uncertain whether Melnyk will attend the meeting with the talks at a delicate stage for a new downtown rink, but it would be surprising if all the ‘i’s’ are dotted and ‘t’s’ are crossed Thursday. At this point, Melnyk might want to take a step back from the spotlight until everything is in place 100 per cent.

There are 35 minutes set aside on the NCC’s agenda for the LeBreton portion of the discussions, which will include a staff update on the talks.

There is a sense in the community that this is a watershed moment for the ownership of the franchise and especially those who have refused to listen to Melnyk when he says he’ll never sell the team and it’s not for sale.

Though Melnyk stated last month on Parliament Hill he wasn’t sure a downtown arena was as important as everybody was making it out to be, it should be noted he was still in the middle of negotiations for a new rink at LeBreton and it makes no sense to show all your cards while trying to get a deal done.

If there’s going to be an events centre (also known as a rink) it needs a main tenant and Melnyk owns that part of the deal so his presence in these negotiations are key.

The Senators have looked at other sites in the area that could house a new arena, but LeBreton makes the most sense because it’s five minutes west of Parliament Hill, will be on the new LRT line and the NCC has been looking for something that’s going to attract people to the area.

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and deputy commissioner Bill Daly have both stated they feel it’s paramount the Senators have a downtown arena. The Senators curtained off 1,500 seats coming into the season hoping to create more of a demand at the rink and the club is average 15,460 people per-game.

You have to give these two sides credit because these discussions have been air tight as far as information goes. If Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson didn’t sit on the board in a non-voting role then you wonder how much he would know?

One also gets the feeling that once Thursday ends, there will still be some heavy lifting to be done but this is a major step in the right direction.

http://ottawasun.com/news/local-news...0-6ccb3ad646f0

[elly63]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Partly agreed with this. I strongly believe the CSA is pushing hard for BMO and BC Place

Don't see that at all, they can't be seen to be pushing for anybody and not alienate members from the provincial associations.

Everyplace has advantages and disadvantages. If they can refurb the Big O properly (and have it in the bid) they will be hard to leave out.

[Hackslack]

Does there not need to be real grass? That leaves BMO and Commonwealth, and perhaps the big O once it gets another few hundred million to refurbish. Would BC place need another how much million to be able to put in proper drainage and infrastructure required for real grass. It just went through a half billion retrofit a few years ago.
We hear about TFC and their fans complain at even the remote possibility of playing on anything but true natural turf, I can't imagine the worlds best players would put up with any things less.

[cjones2451]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Does there not need to be real grass? That leaves BMO and Commonwealth, and perhaps the big O once it gets another few hundred million to refurbish. Would BC place need another how much million to be able to put in proper drainage and infrastructure required for real grass. It just went through a half billion retrofit a few years ago.
We hear about TFC and their fans complain at even the remote possibility of playing on anything but true natural turf, I can't imagine the worlds best players would put up with any things less.

BC place has drainage, they could put grass in there for a month and water it etc.

[Coldrsx]

Commonwealth is not real grass any longer.

[Hackslack]

I didn't realize BC Place had all the drainage infrastructure in place already. That is good news then and shouldn't be much to convert to real grass. Same with Commonwealth, they just recently in the pst few years replaced the real grass with fake, but I'd imagine it would take much to just re-convert it back to grass.

[Acajack]

Any city that has a chance to host FIFA WC games will simply make arrangements to get a natural grass pitch in its stadium. There is no way that is a deal-breaker if your city is being considered.

You can even put natural grass in indoor stadiums if need be.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Does there not need to be real grass?

There are many solutions to that issue that go all the way back to the 1994 World Cup and the games that were played in the Pontiac Silverdome. That is not an overly difficult obstacle to surmount and really shouldn't have much of a bearing in the decision where to play games. We've also had 20 years of advancement in technology on that issue. Here are two methods:

• Video Link

• Video Link

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Any city that has a chance to host FIFA WC games will simply make arrangements to get a natural grass pitch in its stadium. There is no way that is a deal-breaker if your city is being considered.

You can even put natural grass in indoor stadiums if need be.

It was mentioned in that FIFA will pay for the grass to be installed.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

In other news, the Sens are one step closer to moving back to Ottawa.

It's done

https://twitter.com/NCC_CCN/status/956563721991593985

We are pleased to announce that we have reached a preliminary agreement with RendezVous LeBreton Group for the redevelopment of #LeBretonFlats.

[JHikka]

Finally. Having the team play downtown will absolutely change downtown and the perception of the team as a whole.

[Rico Rommheim]

Good news for Ottawa and he Hens in general. Now, what are they planning to do with the correl centre? Of the scotiabank place or whatever it's called nowadays? Home Hardware Gardens? Will it become a huge white elephant?

[HomeInMyShoes]

^Winter Olympics 2026!

Combine with Montreal and you'd have curling, figure skating and hockey all with their own arenas.