City Murder Rates

[Leo the Dog]

Originally Posted by NorthernDancer

Yeah, tell that to the families of the innocent bystanders who have been killed by bullets.

While innocents are unfortunately killed in the crossfire, Tech's point is valid. There are certain/specific demographics that are behaving in a violent manner and are responsible for much of America's gun violence. We aren't seeing the elderly or women commit these heinous crimes.

Aside from domestic crimes which can affect anybody from all walks of life, much of the violence is associated with the drug trade (distribution/addiction). Drug addicts will commit a variety of crimes in order to afford their next fix.

Why teens and young adults turn to the gang life is another story, low employment opportunities, low education attainment, fatherless homes, in search of a 'family' etc etc etc, but these are the people responsible for much of the violence in America.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

america has all kinds of problems, and we are playing with guns to boot.

that is even truer and sadder than is commonly known.

here are a few stats i found:



as of today (!) there are 52, 968 incidents of gun violence in 2016; 13,679 deaths; 28,172 injuries; 627 children ages 0-11 injured or killed; 2,864 teens ages 12-17; 358 mass shootings.

there have been 300k deaths by gun violence between 2005-2015.

there were 50k incidents of gun violence in 2015 and 12k deaths.

however, there are also more than 20k suicides with guns every year, an additional statistic that is often a massive hole in the gun violence data.

40% of Americans know someone who was killed/or committed suicide by a gun.

not to mention all the injuries sustained that were not fatal.

other untrivial trivia stats -- austin, tx was the only city over 400k that did not experience a mass shooting in 2013 (4 or more injured/killed) & mass shootings are 2% of annual gun deaths.

one more - 30 people are murdered by guns every day, of which 50% are black males, who are 6% of the general population.


much more here:
https://www.thetrace.org
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org

[Badmotorfinger]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

And what do those three places I listed have in common? Violence. I don't want to die painfully. You didn't see a common thread there? Was that such a controversial statement?

Erm, the level of violence is the same? I think that's what he's referring to. They're really not alike. We all know the order I think and there's gaping gaps between them, Tech was spot on I thought.

Western Mexico is probably worse than Northern Mexico currently. They swap places but the Western region tends to be overlooked by the media, possibly because it isn't on the border.

Chicago's had a horrible year btw. I'm actually shocked, it's challenging it's worst years ever in the last few months. I was expecting it to go down after a hike last year, like 2008 and 2012 before dropping.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Badmotorfinger

Erm, the level of violence is the same? I think that's what he's referring to. They're really not alike. We all know the order I think and there's gaping gaps between them, Tech was spot on I thought.

Western Mexico is probably worse than Northern Mexico currently. They swap places but the Western region tends to be overlooked by the media, possibly because it isn't on the border.

PROHIBITION IS A FAILURE. It was last time this country did it with booze creating ruthless gangs. It would be the same if tv was illegal. A black market will emerge to fulfill demand and people will use the minefield of the blackmarket to get what they want.
Fuck the war on drugs and fuck private prisons. Disgusting.

Chicago's had a horrible year btw. I'm actually shocked, it's challenging it's worst years ever in the last few months. I was expecting it to go down after a hike last year, like 2008 and 2012 before dropping.

Thanks for clarification on it being Western Mexico. I don't know that region. The violence there is as bad as the middle east. Insane torture, mulilation and killing so sadistic shit i saw on the website Ogrish years ago and cannot be unseen.

Clearly there are parallels to Iraq/Syria where people are being slaughtered, butchered for a unless, doomed-to-fail attempt to resist the modern world and keep ridiculous traditions alive.

Chicago of course, is mostly gun violence. As least you just get a bullet in the head there rather than chopped to pieces or crucified in Syrian & Iraq.

[lextown]

Louisville KY is at 113. http://www.courier-journal.com/story...week/94989274/

Lexington KY is at 22.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

the solution is to promote intact, two parent families in every way possible. since the 1970s, children being born out of wedlock has become a rampant epidemic in the hood. you dont have kids looking for surrogate families in gangs, grafitti & carrying guns if the father was around every day to whip their ass, spend quality time and be a role model.

Many countries in Northern Europe have much higher out-of-wedlock birth rates than the U.S., yet don't seem to have the same extent of social problems.

And it isn't like U.S. black ghettos were safer places back in the 60's and 70's, when marriage rates were much higher.

I think, yeah, there is a problem of absent fathers, especially in AA community, and it would nice if marriage rates were higher, ensuring more family stability, but I don't think that's the primary issue.

[softee]

Originally Posted by Gresto

If December is very quiet (1 or 2 homicides), we'll end up with a pretty average total after a horrible first few months.

There have already been 2 more, up to 63 now.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Many countries in Northern Europe have much higher out-of-wedlock birth rates than the U.S., yet don't seem to have the same extent of social problems.

And it isn't like U.S. black ghettos were safer places back in the 60's and 70's, when marriage rates were much higher.

I think, yeah, there is a problem of absent fathers, especially in AA community, and it would nice if marriage rates were higher, ensuring more family stability, but I don't think that's the primary issue.

depends what you mean by safe. the murder rates are higher since those days and the killers are younger. so are incarceration rates post-rockefeller drug laws, which is what has led to the breakdown of the family and it is thee key factor. weapons are much more restricted in the various small european countries so that is no comparison at all. also, we are not talking about american out of wedlock birth rates in general either, we are talking specifically about the 72% aa rates in the hood, where the vast majority of gun violence occurs.

[Jonesy55]

Also you can have 'out of wedlock' births where nonetheless both parents are present and raising their children just as much as in a married household. Births to unmarried parents are not really the issue so much as fathers who make a run for it and don't get involved in raising their kids I think.

[Gresto]

Originally Posted by softee

There have already been 2 more, up to 63 now.

OK, so much for that thought.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Jonesy55

Also you can have 'out of wedlock' births where nonetheless both parents are present and raising their children just as much as in a married household. Births to unmarried parents are not really the issue so much as fathers who make a run for it and don't get involved in raising their kids I think.

the aa family in this community was generally intact through the 1960s as compared to today. the rockefeller drug laws destroyed it. births out of marriage have since become a rampant problem. this is by far the major societal change in the hood.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by Jonesy55

Also you can have 'out of wedlock' births where nonetheless both parents are present and raising their children just as much as in a married household. Births to unmarried parents are not really the issue so much as fathers who make a run for it and don't get involved in raising their kids I think.

Of course. But married probably means the dad is more likely to be involved.

[dc_denizen]

I think the issue here is that any society, given the conditions, can evolve to what you might call a malign equilibrium - one where destructive social impulses are encouraged, rather than the opposite.

This seems to be the case in inner city African American Chicago.

Usually, a necessary condition is "too much freedom": an absence of authority that human beings need to exist and regulate their interactions. This can be government, it can be family, whatever. Another necessary condition is weak resistance to adversity, due to past abuse + discrimination, current discrimination, or other factors. A third is "not enough options". For anyone living on the south side, there is precious little to support oneself, besides illicit activities, thanks to decades of outsourcing and white flight.

You can see the same thing in any population though. "Ultra" supporters of Italian soccer clubs; El Salvadoran gangs; Islamic culture and its treatment of women, etc. You are beginning to see it in the white working class (see: overdoses and suicides).

The sociological challenge seems to be about breaking the cycle. In chicago, it probably will require government intervention (a big jobs program, open say only to African American males, or even a basic guaranteed income funded by say, offshored US corporate profits that trump confiscates), authoritarian police actions (curfews/weapons confiscations/national guard on the streets, all the stuff that lefties despise). I tend to think that when these two factors are in place, the strength of the african american church and family would be able to reassert itself, eventually correcting the problem.

[Tosin007]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

so does Edmonton, apparently.

Anyhow, I suggest you go back and read the post about Chicago gangs

young African Americans commit 20x more gun homicides per capita than white males of the same age, according to analysis by fivethirtyeight.

the solution of gun crime in America will be about getting this population to commit fewer gun murders.

for the rest of us, there not much more of a gun problem.

Edmonton? Compared to what? Chicago, Detroit, Memphis, St. Louis, Baltimore,
Atlanta, Birmingham, Dallas, Houston? Edmonton is not really so bad.

[begratto]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Of course. But married probably means the dad is more likely to be involved.

In American (or anglo-american) culture, maybe, but not Northern Europe or here in Quebec. Here, the majority of children are born out of wedlock. Weddings are considered old fashioned and unecessary by most people. Yet Quebec is one of the (if not the) least violent regions in North America, couples are just as stable as elswhere and dads are probably more involved than in the rest of the continent; where else in North America do dads get 5 weeks of paid paternity leave, on top of the paid parental leave which can be shared with the mother?

[Tosin007]

Originally Posted by begratto

In American (or anglo-american) culture, maybe, but not Northern Europe or here in Quebec. Here, the majority of children are born out of wedlock. Weddings are considered old fashioned and unecessary by most people. Yet Quebec is one of the (if not the) least violent regions in North America, couples are just as stable as elswhere and dads are probably more involved than in the rest of the continent; where else in North America do dads get 5 weeks of paid paternity leave, on top of the paid parental leave which can be shared with the mother?

Wow does Quebec really get 5 weeks? I never knew that! Always thought the Canadian Max was 3 in Saskatchewan.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by begratto

where else in North America do dads get 5 weeks of paid paternity leave, on top of the paid parental leave which can be shared with the mother?

Pretty much any professional job in the U.S. offers this, or better. The difference is that the employer covers it, not the govt. And it's usually paid.

We're about to have a baby, and my wife gets three months of full pay through her job, and I get three months of 2/3 pay through my job (though I'm just taking a few weeks). And we have friends who work in investment banks or law firms that offer the mother up to one year full pay (!) which doesn't even exist in Northern Europe (you get partial pay there).

If you're making a ton of money for a company, they will usually happily accommodate your baby-making.

Having a baby in the U.S. sucks if you don't have a professional job, though. And child care is much more difficult than in other countries.

[tablemtn]

Portland has 19 homicides (but the same 16 murders) after police killed a man with a rifle in the southeast part of the city:

Responding to shooting call, officers shoot and kill armed man in Southeast Portland

[Jonesy55]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Pretty much any professional job in the U.S. offers this, or better. The difference is that the employer covers it, not the govt. And it's usually paid.

We're about to have a baby, and my wife gets three months of full pay through her job, and I get three months of 2/3 pay through my job (though I'm just taking a few weeks). And we have friends who work in investment banks or law firms that offer the mother up to one year full pay (!) which doesn't even exist in Northern Europe (you get partial pay there).

If you're making a ton of money for a company, they will usually happily accommodate your baby-making.

Having a baby in the U.S. sucks if you don't have a professional job, though. And child care is much more difficult than in other countries.

People in professional jobs probably aren't the main concern I think, it's families without professional jobs that are where the issues arise and if they have very poor parental leave, maternity pay etc compared to professionals then that just makes the problem worse I would think.

[tablemtn]

Vancouver has 10 murders and 1 justified homicide after a slaying on the west side of the city:

Police investigating homicide in Vancouver's West Side

The justified homicide (by police) stemmed from a robbery/hostage-taking at a tire store a few weeks ago.