Casino thoughts

[whalley13]

With the casino getting voted down for south surrey, what are the chances a new proposal is made for bridgeview or central surrey?

Rich Coleman didn't seem happy with the no vote, but will this change if the city votes to support a different location bid?

[deasine]

Originally Posted by whalley13

With the casino getting voted down for south surrey, what are the chances a new proposal is made for bridgeview or central surrey?

Rich Coleman didn't seem happy with the no vote, but will this change if the city votes to support a different location bid?

From what I know, Surrey actually approached the government for the casino; Rich Coleman was disappointed of the decision because of the flip-flopping by politicians as BCLC/The Ministry wasn't looking to build another casino earlier.

[officedweller]

I'd rather see one in Central Surrey than Bridgeview.
It would also bring a major hotel to downtown Surrey.

[cornholio]

I think the natives made it pretty clear with their whining that they are thinking of building their own casino on their lands very soon. Given their whining and this outcome I would place a decent bet on the natives development plans, especially casino plans getting a shot of adrenaline. They wont be procrastinating anymore.

My money is on all the investors shifting their focus to the natives and partnering up with them to build the casino on their lands rather then moving somewhere else.

I can see something being proposed within a year as its in both sides best interest to cooperate and move as quickly as possible on a new proposal.

[whalley13]

I don't think natives in Canada have "casino" rights, the way they do in the states, plus the native bands that are complaining are in whiterock, no? I don't think the seniors of white rock will be happy with a casino anytime soon

[SpongeG]

in alberta the natives have a few casinos

[CBeats]

It didn't have transit, which isn't good. Not sure what will happen to the site now though.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by whalley13

I don't think natives in Canada have "casino" rights, the way they do in the states, plus the native bands that are complaining are in whiterock, no? I don't think the seniors of white rock will be happy with a casino anytime soon

In theory they don't, in reality they do. No politician will touch a native bands land use decisions with a 10 foot poll right now...they will beg behind closed doors and pay them off imo and that's about it. Its like the DFO, they claim one thing but when it comes to natives they do the opposite. If Semiahmoo wants to get a casino license they just need to threaten a tantrum and I am sure the paper pushers will make it happen, ultimately they will somehow give it to them.

Having said that I take back most of what I said in my above post, after reading up on the Semiahmoo native band I realized they have some really poor leadership and business practices. I am not so sure anymore, anything is possible, unless they pull a 180 in the way the deal with the rest of the world, on the other hand they have shown a complete disregard for their neighbors in White Rock and Surrey so who knows...Either way what I predicted looks a lot more complicated then I realized.

Few recent factoids about them...

ex1 After the Tsawwassen treaty proposal was drafted and negotiated on for over 3 years the Semiahmoo band decided to try and kill it weeks before a vote on it. They decided not to say anything until the bitter end, after everyone invested millions of dollars and thousands of hours in to negotiations. a hole move.

ex2 This casino proposal was out there for a while and the land rezoned nearly 3 years ago, without a single word through the whole process days before the council vote the Semiahmoo come out and try to kill it...once again a ahole move

ex3 Two years ago they decided they wanted to strengthen their land rights so what did they do, fence in Semianhmoo park and throw up no trespassing sings. park view a hole move

ex4 Treaty negotiations? Of course not, they think they will be unfair so refuse to partake. Their plan for the future? None... huh move

Lots more juicy details but these are the attention getting type, suffice to say I spoke to quick in my earlier post. Its clear they want a casino, or are considering it in such a way that wanting a casino is a inevitable outcome but to make that happen they would need a partner...and they just don't look like good partner material, but things can change I suppose but with their whining last week they might need a few more life lessons to bring them back to reality and treat others with respect because that's the only way they will receive it back, and without respect they dont stand a chance in the world of business. imo

p.s. been going through this on my free time, aandc..what I am learning is priceless imo...I suggest for anyone with a curiosity in to what really goes on with Indian affairs to go through this...most of us have some interest and lots of opinions but never actually went and looked at the nitty gritty facts. take 20 min every day to go through something on there, that's what I am trying to do.

[Whalleyboy]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I'd rather see one in Central Surrey than Bridgeview.
It would also bring a major hotel to downtown Surrey.

I originally thought it would also be awesome to have one in dt surrey. But after some thought into it I realize it would probably be nice if it was more around the scott road station area. lots are much more larger there giving opportunity to have a big convention centre / casino area. Plus could copy the river rock idea with hotel/parkade for transit.

[officedweller]

Good idea about the park & ride.

I was thinking that Bridgeview/Scott Road is closer to the Starlight Casino in Queensborough (and is there still a riverboat casino in New West?) - plus the economic spinoffs from a hotel / convention centre / show lounge would be good in downtown Surrey.

[Whalleyboy]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Good idea about the park & ride.

I was thinking that Bridgeview/Scott Road is closer to the Starlight Casino in Queensborough (and is there still a riverboat casino in New West?) - plus the economic spinoffs from a hotel / convention centre / show lounge would be good in downtown Surrey.

Well yes it would. But I'm sure there would be a big fight against it being right there too. So if its in the scott road area it would keep it from not being right beside residential areas. But still have it close enough for the city centre to gain easy access to it plus it would have the benefit of being right by a skytrain station. Its is a much more logical spot for a casino/convention centre in my mind

[GMasterAres]

There probably will be a casino eventually. Just makes sense and makes more sense in downtown Surrey to me honestly. When though? Who knows. I don't think it is a massive priority but it would very much be helpful to downtown Surrey.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I'd rather see one in Central Surrey than Bridgeview.
It would also bring a major hotel to downtown Surrey.

Agreed. This proposal put the casino in the middle of nowhere. A Central City casino would no doubt bring along a major hotel and convention centre along with it. The city has also been looking to build a major arena which has the potential to transform downtown Surrey into a lively area with one heck of an entertainment district.

[Blake]

A couple of thoughts:

- It shouldn't come as a big surprise that the proposal was rejected considering the location. This was proposed in an affluent, semi-rural area in a community where it's residents have a high level of community engagement. It was a long shot from the start.

- I suppose if all other major cities in Metro Vancouver have a casino, then Surrey probably deserves one as well. That said, does Metro Van really need to build more casinos?

As nice as the gaming revenue is - the region needs to ask a bigger question of "what type of city does Metro Vancouver want to be?"...a first class international destination or a white-trash mecca ala Las Vegas North?

- Realistically, a location in Bridgeview or City Centre makes more sense from the standpoint of revitalization of the neighbourhood, but it's then too close to the Boulevard and Starlight to make economic sense.

[whalley13]

I agree with cornholio that semiahmoo is a dump, considering the priceless ocean front property a few miles away in whiterock lol,....what i found surprising is how many white people live down there on a "native" reserve

I don't think their casino pleas will get very far...the cats out of the bag there are big private companies that already engage in the business, why would they share the pie now? Most provincial gov't's are in their pocket , not the native groups

Nor is the federal gov't very friendly to native groups and i think its unlikely they are gonna give them this revenue stream that quick

A politician would be foolish to do so, as majority of public are against the recent native protests and 'hunger strikes'

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Blake

- Realistically, a location in Bridgeview or City Centre makes more sense from the standpoint of revitalization of the neighbourhood, but it's then too close to the Boulevard and Starlight to make economic sense.

Not sure if it it would impact the catchment area all that much. There's no other casino to the south (other than US ones) - so a Central City location would still be closer from the south than Boulevard and Starlight. Central City actually allows it compete with those on driving distance. The only other on the south side of the Fraser is the one in Langley.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by whalley13

I agree with cornholio that semiahmoo is a dump, considering the priceless ocean front property a few miles away in whiterock lol,....what i found surprising is how many white people live down there on a "native" reserve

I don't think their casino pleas will get very far...the cats out of the bag there are big private companies that already engage in the business, why would they share the pie now? Most provincial gov't's are in their pocket , not the native groups

Nor is the federal gov't very friendly to native groups and i think its unlikely they are gonna give them this revenue stream that quick

A politician would be foolish to do so, as majority of public are against the recent native protests and 'hunger strikes'

According to BCLC

“We’ll now look at whether it is something that could be developed in the south end of Langley or southwest part of Delta. It might be Tsawwassen, Semiahmoo. The market is there and the opportunity is there and we are quite keen to develop it if there are municipalities or First Nations that are keen to be partners.”
article

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by cornholio

According to BCLC

“We’ll now look at whether it is something that could be developed in the south end of Langley or southwest part of Delta. It might be Tsawwassen, Semiahmoo. The market is there and the opportunity is there and we are quite keen to develop it if there are municipalities or First Nations that are keen to be partners.”
article

I don't quite understand the stance from BCLC or the minister. It isn't "Surrey" that is against Casinos. It is that specific area which quite frankly is not a good area. Look at every other Casino. They're all in relatively good locations with central populations. Hell Langley already has a Casino.

And there are slots in Cloverdale and Newton. So it's not like the city is against this stuff. It is against that specific location which like I said is not a smart location.

It makes no sense to have a large convention center in the middle of nowhere. You're more than 30 minutes from SkyTrain. There is very little highway access. It's all farm land. I'd put money that if this exact same proposal was put to public hearing but was to be constructed at 102nd and Whalley Boulevard, it would pass. Heck it would make sense either across from 3 Civic Plaza or as has been mentioned, down at Scott Road station. I actually think Scott Road would be a good idea and may park development in an area crying for development.

If the election goes as seems to be the direction it is headed, Mr. Coleman won't be there much longer anyway.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by jhausner

I don't quite understand the stance from BCLC or the minister. It isn't "Surrey" that is against Casinos. It is that specific area which quite frankly is not a good area. Look at every other Casino. They're all in relatively good locations with central populations. Hell Langley already has a Casino.

And there are slots in Cloverdale and Newton. So it's not like the city is against this stuff. It is against that specific location which like I said is not a smart location.

It makes no sense to have a large convention center in the middle of nowhere. You're more than 30 minutes from SkyTrain. There is very little highway access. It's all farm land. I'd put money that if this exact same proposal was put to public hearing but was to be constructed at 102nd and Whalley Boulevard, it would pass. Heck it would make sense either across from 3 Civic Plaza or as has been mentioned, down at Scott Road station. I actually think Scott Road would be a good idea and may park development in an area crying for development.

If the election goes as seems to be the direction it is headed, Mr. Coleman won't be there much longer anyway.

Obviously money talks at the end of the day but I doubt Surrey gets considered since there are too many other options to look at...

On Sunday Rich Coleman, the minister responsible for gambling, blasted Surrey for rejecting the proposed Gateway Casino as part of a hotel and convention centre project and said B.C. won’t waste any more time looking to place a casino in Surrey.

Graydon echoed those comments, saying he wants to turn his attention elsewhere.

As for why build a casino in south Surrey beyond the fact that one of the largest regional industrial parks is taking shape there and some of the most massive residential developments aswell... This competition

[WarrenC12]

Coleman is pissed off because Surrey city council asked them to come in and propose a casino, and outlined that area as a site. Clearly they didn't do any consultation, or had no idea of the backlash. Now Watts is claiming to be the people's hero against the big bad BCLC and casino operators.