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View Poll Results: Is SEPTA doing a great job in regards to bus, subway, and commuter rail overall??????
YES 38 49.35%
NO 39 50.65%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

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  #101  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2009, 10:57 PM
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^ I breezed through it...gonna have to sit down and take some time to digest it. Needless to say I prefer the all electrified option.
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  #102  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2009, 2:39 AM
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I had no idea this study was in the works, thanks for the post. For the first time ever this past weekend I took a trip down 422 W past Valley Forge and can see how rail expansion to this part of the state would be much needed. And a rail stop at Valley Forge? That'd be fantastic.
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  #103  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2009, 2:00 AM
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Your geography is confusing Wanderer...
1. Parkside is in West Philadelphia (all the parts of Philadelphia west of the Schuylkill River are called "West Philly").
2. By the sounds of it, you're describing a westward trip down Erie away from the Hispanic neighborhoods, but if you are, you do realize that Broad St. comes first and then the tracks? BTW, the massive-scale lots you're describing, esp. if they're concentrated near the train tracks (and IIRC the CSX line follows Erie for a time west of the SEPTA bridge) would most likely be abandoned industrial lots. Looking west from said SEPTA bridge I can see several gargantuan abandoned warehouses just begging for conversion...
1. That was my mistake!!! I did meant West Philly!!!

2. I'm not referring to the former Reading RR main line (line to Doylestown and Lansdale), but a former frieght line east of Old York Rd which passes underneath Erie Ave. And no, they're not industrial lots, but residential lots. Trust me, I've passed through there several times!!!
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  #104  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2009, 1:20 PM
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I'll have to go check it out. I don't think I've ever scoped Erie east of Broad.
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  #105  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2009, 2:44 PM
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You talking about here?
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...,0.021973&z=16

This is the former Reading Line that connected the Main Line (reading's main line was Pottsville-Philly...the Bethlehem line was a "branch") with the coal wharfs at Port Richmond.
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  #106  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 12:56 PM
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Here's how SEPTA has chosen to take advantage of the stimulus package:
http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...ral_funds.html
Quote:
SEPTA outlines projects set for federal funds

By Paul Nussbaum

Inquirer Staff Writer
Refurbished Broad Street subway stations at Girard and Spring Garden.

Forty new hybrid buses.

New rail, new signals, and repainted overhead-wire poles on the Route 101/102 Media-Sharon Hill line.

Renovated stations at seven stops along the R8 Chestnut Hill West rail line.

Those are among 28 SEPTA projects slated to start as early as spring, with about $190 million in funds expected from the new federal stimulus law.

SEPTA officials pared their wish list last week, after federal funding was reduced and formulas modified, but general manager Joseph M. Casey said, "We'll take what we can get . . . $190 million is nothing to sneeze at."

SEPTA officials met with vendors and contractors Friday, and the transit agency expects the first bids to be in by early March. Work will begin by May, and 80 percent of the projects will be under way within 120 days, said Jeff Knueppel, SEPTA assistant general manager of engineering, maintenance and construction.

Projects large and small have been designed, to allow as many contractors and workers to be involved as possible, Casey said.

The most expensive of the projects is a $36.7 million rehabilitation of the 1930s-era Broad Street subway stations at Spring Garden Street and Girard Avenue.

About $44 million is earmarked for several projects to upgrade the Media-Sharon Hill (Routes 101 and 102) trolley lines. The work will include new continuous welded rail to replace old rail - some dating to the 1920s, repainted catenary poles, improved grade crossings, removal of crossing gates, and installation of fiber optic cable to permit installation of audiovisual public-address devices at the stations.

About $5.2 million is slated for the balky automatic train-control system on the Green Line subway-surface trolley lines, which has never worked satisfactorily and produces chronic delays. The money is to be spent on replacing and upgrading computers, hardware, and software.

The ornate 1878 Tulpehocken station on the R8 Chestnut Hill West rail line, designed by renowned Philadelphia architect Frank Furness, will get an exterior makeover and a new roof as part of a $3.1 million project to refurbish seven stations on the line. The other six are Chestnut Hill West, Highland, St. Martins, Carpenter Lane, Upsal, and Chelten Avenue.

Other Regional Rail stations to be renovated include Croydon, Malvern, Philmont, Langhorne, Lansdale, Warminster, Glenside, Fox Chase, and North Wales. New signs are slated for 17 stations on the R5 Paoli/Thorndale line.

About $18.7 million is earmarked for SEPTA to exercise its option to buy 40 new electric-diesel hybrid buses from New Flyer of America.

SEPTA is also looking for additional federal money from environmental, security, and high-speed-rail funds to augment the $190 million from the transit pool in the stimulus package, said Richard Burnfield, chief financial officer.
Not exactly the forward-looking ideas we've been discussing.
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  #107  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 1:54 PM
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Been paying attention? The stimulus money is for "shovel ready" projects, not pie-in-the-sky ideas.

This is money well spent.
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  #108  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 3:27 PM
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Originally Posted by theWatusi View Post
Been paying attention? The stimulus money is for "shovel ready" projects, not pie-in-the-sky ideas.

This is money well spent.

Agree. Philly isn't really growing super fast like the western cities anyway, so sprucing up the system already in place is critical to it's image. If for anything, more frequent regional rail service is my biggest wish.....
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  #109  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 6:27 PM
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How bad are the cantenary poles on the 100 lines? can't be much worse than every other cantenary pole south of new haven, ct!

its good that this will be done, but not very sexy! lets hope they can paint efficiently....just put the cantenary poles in a tanning booth and you're done!
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  #110  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 9:44 PM
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Catenary poles on the 100! I'm sure you mean something else, no?
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  #111  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 10:40 PM
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hammer, he means the 101/102 and the painting may be a bit to keep the locals happy. The paint also helps the metal resist corrosion.

I guess this is as good as it can get for now. I made the point before that it would help for SEPTA to get ahead of future monies and get some impact studies done now on physical expansion. If nobody ever gets around to it then yes it will never come to pass. You mean to tell me SEPTA doesn't have some old plan sitting on a shelf somewhere? The Roosevelt Blvd EIS was just something to pass the time?
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  #112  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2009, 4:03 AM
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Originally Posted by volguus zildrohar View Post
hammer, he means the 101/102 and the painting may be a bit to keep the locals happy. The paint also helps the metal resist corrosion.

I guess this is as good as it can get for now. I made the point before that it would help for SEPTA to get ahead of future monies and get some impact studies done now on physical expansion. If nobody ever gets around to it then yes it will never come to pass. You mean to tell me SEPTA doesn't have some old plan sitting on a shelf somewhere? The Roosevelt Blvd EIS was just something to pass the time?
You mean they aren't going to paint the little brackets that hold up the third rail on the route 100? Thank you VZ! I got sloppy with my counting

Agreed, where is that old BLVD plan, man that should be jumping around begging for money!
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Last edited by phillyscooter; Feb 25, 2009 at 4:04 AM. Reason: add
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  #113  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2009, 2:24 PM
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Originally Posted by theWatusi View Post
Been paying attention? The stimulus money is for "shovel ready" projects, not pie-in-the-sky ideas.

This is money well spent.
I know that the stimulus is for shovel-ready projects. The point I am making is that as long as we limit our thinking on transit, our we'll never have shovel ready projects that involve expanding the structure of our transit system. Right now, our mindset is to simply maintain what we have as best as possible, because we don't believe we'll ever be able to make real improvements. The result of this is that we're never ready to take advantage of opportunities.

Not that I oppose the proposed changes. It's just that when I read this article, I was reminded of how much our approach and way of thinking about transit needs to change (and by "our" I mean average citizens and especially civic leaders, not necessarily people who post or read here).
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  #114  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2009, 2:25 PM
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Originally Posted by phillyscooter View Post
You mean they aren't going to paint the little brackets that hold up the third rail on the route 100? Thank you VZ! I got sloppy with my counting
Hey! Make-work!
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Originally Posted by phillyscooter View Post
Agreed, where is that old BLVD plan, man that should be jumping around begging for money!
Thirded.
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  #115  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2009, 9:39 PM
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this is like filling a pothole. these are projects that should occur anyway. sad how we underfund mass transport
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  #116  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2009, 4:05 AM
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  #117  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2009, 6:05 PM
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this is like filling a pothole. these are projects that should occur anyway. sad how we underfund mass transport
Yeah I agree. It's BS that a more substantial project won't be funded with stimulus dollars. *Disclaimer - I'm not a SEPTA basher* With this said, it's frustrating that SEPTA does not have a plan ready for major expansion, like the Roosevelt Blvd Subway. If there was a plan in place, it'd be executed using the stimulus money as all projects funded by the stimulus need to begin within one year. Obviously it's too late for that.

This is the reason why I started this thread, to draw attention to lack of planning for future expansion projects.
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  #118  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2009, 12:53 AM
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The blvd extension would cost like $4 billion -plus the state can' really help at the moment.
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  #119  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2009, 1:29 AM
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I always felt that in order to bring back service to suburbs like Reading, Allentown, West Chester, and South Jersey, it has to be gradual. I've always said that the West Chester branch needs to come first because in comparison to the rest of the said municipalities, it's growing at a fast rate. Plus it's the smallest of the former railroad branches that radiated out from Phila.

Also, I'd love to see NJ Transit restore service to towns like Vineland, Cape May, Ocean City, Mount Holly, Toms River, Pennsville and Medford to Phila and Camden. For anybody who has been to Trenton and seen it's new station, the Camden station would be similar in construction and design, but elevated!!!

You could forget the Riverline. The only beef i have with it is that it doesn't run on it's own ROW, using streets rather than elevated or below grade. Plus I don't really like the way it meshes up with Camden's and Burlington's downtown.
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  #120  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2009, 1:32 AM
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All that being said I still think that the Boulevard subway or a subway up 29th to Manayunk via the parkway would both have a higher ridership per dollar return than anything on the water front.
I think a great way to get a subway/light rail service to Manayunk could be done in conjunction with a Schuylkill Valley rail service from Reading to 30th St lower level. With R6 regional rail trains rerouted onto the Manayunk rail bridge and operating via Cynwyd, that would allow the remaining portion of the R6 Reading line to be used by a subway or light rail service to Center City. The new service would stop at Ivy Ridge, Manayunk, Wissahickon, East Falls and a relocated Allegheny station near 29th St. Then it could run down 29th St and Pennsylvania Avenue into Center City.

Once in Center City, the line would turn south on 18th St, then east on the Parkway and Arch. It would terminate in a new station on Arch between Broad and 15th, which would allow for transfers between the new line and the Broad St, Market/Frankford, Subway/Surface and Regional Rail lines. The new line would serve Manayunk, Fairmount Park, the Art Museum, the Franklin Institute, the Planetarium and other Center City attractions, so I think it would get very good ridership.

An alternate routing that I considered would be to run the new service from Pennsylvania Avenue across the now-abandoned Reading city branch, then turn south into the existing Broad/Ridge line. This would require digging into an existing subway tunnel and require the elimination of Broad/Ridge spur trains, but it would serve the Gallery, offer a connection to the El and PATCO and would be a short walk from Independence Hall.

Last edited by Mike D; Mar 4, 2009 at 2:34 AM.
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