Next most well-known/recognized Canadian city after Montreal-Toronto-Vancouver?

[SignalHillHiker]

I don't think most people in foreign countries could even name our big three. In Boston, for example, most people's reference point for Canada is Montreal. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you could still today tell someone there you're from Toronto and be asked how close that is to Montreal. I assume Toronto is best known generally and Vancouver best known in the Western United States.

Beyond that, Canada isn't urban so it's not famous for its urban centres. The percentage of people coming to Canada for its urban attractions is probably similar to the number of mainland Canadians who come here for ours.

Not saying there aren't any - mainlanders love George Street and the rowhouses and especially performing music here - but they're coming for the icebergs and whales and trails. Likewise, Canada is known for natural attractions. I bet a lot of the world would guess a picture of Lake Louise was Canada, but wouldn't be able to tell you the name of the place and would be surprised to learn there are two cities with more than a million people in the same province, or even all Canada.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I don't think most people in foreign countries could even name our big three. In Boston, for example, most people's reference point for Canada is Montreal. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you could still today tell someone there you're from Toronto and be asked how close that is to Montreal. I assume Toronto is best known generally and Vancouver best known in the Western United States.

Beyond that, Canada isn't urban so it's not famous for its urban centres. The percentage of people coming to Canada for its urban attractions is probably similar to the number of mainland Canadians who come here for ours.

Not saying there aren't any - mainlanders love George Street and the rowhouses and especially performing music here - but they're coming for the icebergs and whales and trails. Likewise, Canada is known for natural attractions. I bet a lot of the world would guess a picture of Lake Louise was Canada, but wouldn't be able to tell you the name of the place and would be surprised to learn there are two cities with more than a million people in the same province, or even all Canada.

Americans aren't exactly renown for the geographic knowledge, that being said an American who can't name Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver is not as common as people think. That is pretty basic stuff. Where exactly they are located, now thats different.

I have also never met a Japanese adult who has drawn a blank on any of those 3 cities when mentioned. Again they may not know more than the name, but they are aware of their existence.

If there are any countries in this world where most people can't name many of their largest cities that would be China and India.

I would even argue that Canada's big 3 are disproportionately famous internationally for their respective sizes. This is true for Australia, New Zealand and other such countries as well.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Okotoks

+1
/thread

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I would even argue that Canada's big 3 are disproportionately famous internationally for their respective sizes. This is true for Australia, New Zealand and other such countries as well.

Yes, that's true. For a country that's not really that big or old or powerful, Canada's 3 largest cities have quite a bit of international presence and awareness.

Canadians usually lament that we're not better known, or if we're known at all, we're known for some stereotype. But I think that's true of all countries. Even better, as you said in another post upthread, we are known for things that could just as well be American: the Rocky mountains centred around Banff NP being a prime example, or the temperate coastal ecosystem/indigenous groups of the Pacific Northwest being maybe another.

I think that's because the American west is psychogeographically oriented towards the Southwest, culminating in California, and therefore away from Canada. Places like the Rockies in Montana and Idaho and the coastal mountains of Washington kind of get glossed over, at least internationally.

We're lucky that way: a lot of stereotypical German culture is associated with Bavaria. Austria is very close to Bavaria culturally, so, as a result, the image of Germany=Bavaria kind of overpowers any image Austria might convey to people from overseas.

Also, I wouldn't expect your students to know Edmonton. How many Canadians could name 6 Japanese cities? With the exception of some very historically powerful countries, by the time you're getting into the 5th or 6th largest city, you're really only dealing with a city that's of domestic importance.

[elly63]

Moose Jaw

[Denscity]

Flin Flon

[Coldrsx]

Ottawa
Banff
Calgary
Edmonton

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Ottawa
Banff
Calgary
Edmonton

With Niagara Falls somewhere in the middle of that list.

[Coldrsx]

Quebec City would also be up there.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Calgary had the 1988 Winter Olympics though how well known that made the city worldwide is hard to tell.

Some places did become more well known from their Winter Olympics (or association with winter sports/outdoor activity) such as Lillehammer, Grenoble, Innsbruck or Lake Placid, from the point of view of outsiders.

Calgary is vaguely connected to tourists landing there for a trip to the Rockies. Though how well Calgary is really tied to the "Rockies" in the minds of non-Canadians (or even Canadians alike) is questionable.

I am on board for Calgary - primarily because of the Olympics. And even if people were not alive when a city's specific Olympics took place, the name recognition for the city lives on through references to records and other "stories" that took place during those games.

Montreal has even gotten a lot of incidental worldwide "hits" in recent years thanks to stories about Bruce Jenner's sex change!

[Acajack]

I betcha a lot of people around the world know Niagara Falls but have no idea if there is a city or not near the falls, and if it's big, small or a tiny village.

[Acajack]

People also will have heard of some of our cities in surprising places due to "ties" in various areas of human activity.

For example, many Finns know Winnipeg not so much because of a shared passion for hockey (which does exist) but because Teemu Selanne played there for many years.

Ottawa is fairly well-known in certain parts of Lebanon because in some cases entire families or even entire neighbourhoods or villages have moved there in recent decades.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Americans aren't exactly renown for the geographic knowledge, that being said an American who can't name Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver is not as common as people think. That is pretty basic stuff. Where exactly they are located, now thats different.

It varies a lot based on how well-educated or well-travelled the person is and where they live in the US.

One way of thinking about other countries that is prevalent in the US reminds me of how alien planets are portrayed in Star Trek. They beam down to some planet. The people there are all green, the entire planet is all desert, and there is one key planet-wide struggle. Why aren't other planets as varied as Earth? For Star Trek purposes it's because that wouldn't be manageable in terms of budget or plot. For Americans the simplification happens because of the limited amount of mental energy devoted to thinking about these other countries. The average American probably learns more about Iowa than about Canada. For someone in Mississippi who is never even going to leave the country this is probably perfectly sensible.

Anyway, I vote for Ottawa. Capitals are one of the first basic facts you learn about countries.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

+1
/thread

The "In Before The Okotoks" window was really really small this time!

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by someone123

It varies a lot based on how well-educated or well-travelled the person is and where they live in the US.

One way of thinking about other countries that is prevalent in the US reminds me of how alien planets are portrayed in Star Trek. They beam down to some planet. The people there are all green, the entire planet is all desert, and there is one key planet-wide struggle. Why aren't other planets as varied as Earth? For Star Trek purposes it's because that wouldn't be manageable in terms of budget or plot. For Americans the simplification happens because of the limited amount of mental energy devoted to thinking about these other countries. The average American probably learns more about Iowa than about Canada. For someone in Mississippi who is never even going to leave the country this is probably perfectly sensible.

Anyway, I vote for Ottawa. Capitals are one of the first basic facts you learn about countries.

I probably agree that this is the next one people know about, and for the same reason, though it's likely still not close to the level of the first three. I would guess that most people I know wouldn't be able to tell me the capital of Australia. Lots of different areas around the world will know different fourth cities in Canada for different reasons, but even if capitals are sometimes not as obvious as we sometimes think, it would still probably be the next lowest common denominator.

[O-tacular]

Regina.

Then Banff.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Americans aren't exactly renown for the geographic knowledge, that being said an American who can't name Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver is not as common as people think. That is pretty basic stuff. Where exactly they are located, now thats different.

I have also never met a Japanese adult who has drawn a blank on any of those 3 cities when mentioned. Again they may not know more than the name, but they are aware of their existence.

If there are any countries in this world where most people can't name many of their largest cities that would be China and India.

I would even argue that Canada's big 3 are disproportionately famous internationally for their respective sizes. This is true for Australia, New Zealand and other such countries as well.

You could be right - and certainly are among the type of people forumers here are likely to know. But even then there are so many blind spots. My mother travels a lot, every year - Paris for a painting class, NYC for a Broadway play she read about, etc. She's worldly. When I was moving to Winnipeg, she sat me down and had a heart-to-heart begging me to go back into the closet while living there for my own safety. "It's not like Newfoundland, Ryan. They're religious, and not a proper one, but those awful new ones." A few of my friends had me expecting some sort of Hutterite Tehran. It was a big blind spot, even among people who could tell you the five largest cities in Australia and Japan.

I think Canada is in a much milder version of a blind spot globally. People know an appropriate amount, lots could tell you quite a bit about it - including the name of our Prime Minister, which is kind of new for us. But it's not one of the big boys.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by lio45

The "In Before The Okotoks" window was really really small this time!

It made sense to me to get it out of the way early, but the actual timing was lucky

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

Unfortunately the same can be said of basically all Canadian cities. Outside of the big three, we're an unknown country, although the same can be said of a lot of countries; can't all be America or China, I suppose.

That's reasonable, though of course the US has disproportionately many more of its cities, dozens of them, well known overseas due to their obvious media influence.

I'm guessing three cities being well-known in a country is not bad.

Many people only know one or two cities per country if that. For example, Cape Town and Johannesburg in South Africa. Sydney and Melbourne in Australia.

Then again, there are some cities that do seem to get over three cities being recognized internationally.

For example, Italy -- Rome, Milan, Venice, Turin, Florence, Naples etc.

China -- Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Nanjing (Nanking), Macau, Guangzhou (Canton).

Germany -- Berlin, Munich, Cologne, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Dresden, Nuremberg

France -- Paris, Marseille, Lyon, Nice, Bordeaux, Strasbourg

Japan -- Tokyo, Kyoto, Kobe, Osaka, Yokohama, Hiroshima, Nagasaki

To be fair, a city can be famous for positive things (lots of cultural, literary, and historic importance) but also trivial things (mentioned once or twice in some piece of pop culture in a one-liner), and also negative things (eg. some infamous event in war).

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Toronto is known for its size, strong Asian connections, and proximity to Niagara Falls.

Vancouver is known for its strong Asian connections (Pacific Rim city), tourism (within the city itself and as a stepping stone for Whistler and the Rocky Mountains), and the Olympics.

Seems like Asians in Asian countries actually are more aware than many Americans (even Asian-Americans) of the demographics of Vancouver or Toronto.

I've seen countless Americans totally surprised that there's lots of Indians, Chinese, Filipinos, Pakistanis, Arabs, etc. in Canadian cities. Even someone in Great Lakes states like Ohio, or Michigan or somewhere within an afternoon's drive of Toronto occasionally expresses surprise at the diversity to their north at first sight.

Originally Posted by TownGuy

I always find the Eastern Canada and fall colours thing surprising. I mean there are trees everywhere and they all behave in a similar fashion so it's kind of interesting to be famous for it. I know we get a lot of orange and reds but still. I guess nature is Canada's "thing" and it extends to fall foliage as well.

Originally Posted by Metro-One

it is interesting for sure. I think it is also the vast expanses of the forests that make them more attractive as well.

As Canadians we often complain about our lack of image and our back seat to the US, yet I kind of just realized that there are a few aspects that the US and Canada share that Canada is far more often recognized for internationally.

The Rocky Mountains, fall foliage, Niagara Falls, and even Maple Syrup are the ones that just came to my head.

Is fall foliage really more well-known or associated with Canada than the US... Maybe it's just my experience skewed towards living in North America but I don't feel like Americans and Canadians think that fall foliage is exceptionally "theirs". Americas think of their New England leaf peeping just as much as Canadians do theirs, but both kind of vaguely assume its typical of any "four seasons climate".

I don't know if a European, or even an Asian or African person living overseas is going to think "Canada" when it comes to fall colours over the US (or another cold country in general). But then again, it's probably also the fact that there's a red maple leaf on the flag that's super visible and well seen by the rest of the world.

Originally Posted by someone123

It varies a lot based on how well-educated or well-travelled the person is and where they live in the US.

One way of thinking about other countries that is prevalent in the US reminds me of how alien planets are portrayed in Star Trek. They beam down to some planet. The people there are all green, the entire planet is all desert, and there is one key planet-wide struggle. Why aren't other planets as varied as Earth? For Star Trek purposes it's because that wouldn't be manageable in terms of budget or plot. For Americans the simplification happens because of the limited amount of mental energy devoted to thinking about these other countries. The average American probably learns more about Iowa than about Canada. For someone in Mississippi who is never even going to leave the country this is probably perfectly sensible.

Yeah, I'm always surprised at how little known even the Canadian cities of over a million are relative to some small American towns of tens of thousands, to many Americans. I've met really educated people in the US who can't find Toronto on a map but can name a hundred obscure towns and know all kinds of historic facts about them (eg. they were founded in 1800-whatever, and this or that happened to it during the civil war).

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Also, I wouldn't expect your students to know Edmonton. How many Canadians could name 6 Japanese cities?

I think that's not too hard -- some Japanese cities have some clout in North America -- Tokyo (the capital), Hiroshima and Nagasaki (due to WII), Kyoto (maybe due to the protocol), Kobe (beef), maybe Osaka, Yokohama, or Nagano (the Olympics).