PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II - Page 107

Minivan Werner · #**2121** Posted **Nov 16, 2012, 4:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

Oh of course, public funding is still required. My beef is that if PNC can take $400 million of their own money and build a new state-of-the-art HQ tower, why can't UPMC or other companies pony up that kind of money for something their employees will likely use and depend on day in and day out? I know that UPMC's profits are astronomical and they're already sitting on a mountain of green. I don't know what they make compared to PNC, but I do know that in the first quarter of this year PNC made $800 million. It would be neet if PNC and UPMC could come in and provide some kind of joint funding for, oh I don't know, $1 billion ($500m each), but I know that would be a long shot. It's just a way to encourage private interest in investing in our upgraded infrastructure.

I know that heavy rail subway lines are not exactly the "in" thing when looking at other cities. When you look at Downtown and Oakland and the very likely high travel demand between both, I think a heavy rail line is needed here. BRT is a good idea for now; it's relatively inexpensive, but those buses are going to be bursting at the seams.

BrianTH, good to know about the Health Line in Cleveland. Isn't that the BRT line that runs right through the heard of Downtown? I've seen it. That is a pretty sweet BRT line they have there. Still, maybe that could be used as a model for Pittsburgh to find the financing necessary to expand its transit network.

I actually have a pipedream I'm working on in both Google Earth and Sketchup. It invloves extending the T to the airport and Cranberry. My alignment to the Airport calls for an Ohio River crossing that would align it with the West Busway and follow that through Carnegie, then loop up to parallel I-79 and eventually the Parkway West... I have a 3rd extension extending from 1st Avenue to Rankin, and actually 2 heavy rail ideas. My heavy rail idea will extend beyond Downtown and cross under teh Allegheny River beneath the Clemente Bridge and directly serve Allegheny Center and the Mexican War Streets and away from Oakland out to Wilkinsburg at the other end. I also have another spur that would follow Penn Avenue from East Liberty through Lawrenceville and the Strip to Steel Plaza.

This is my map of this pipedream courtesy of Google Earth. Got $20 billion anyone?

I figure the tunnel to Oakland would cost around $2 billion, by the way, based on previous discussions of how to improve/expand our transit.

The one thing I might change is having the airport connector follow the Ohio river further- maybe crossing over somewhere on Neville Island- so that you can service established neighborhoods like Bellevue and Emsworth.

Yeah, none of this stuff will ever be completed in our lifetimes, which is a bummer.. but maybe at least some kind of long term master plan can be developed now so that when funds do become available then the design, right of ways and other logistics are all ironed out already.

Austinlee · #**2122** Posted **Nov 16, 2012, 4:22 AM**

I don't know about you guys but I will just continue to drive my car all over the city and metro. Pittsburgh is one of the least congested cities around. I have no problem. I'm more interested in real estate development and technological innovation than slightly shorter bus rides.

Austinlee · #**2123** Posted **Nov 16, 2012, 4:23 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by daviderik

That's just the mayors office trying to hurry up and take credit and brand whats currently going on downtown. Fixing the streets? Umm thats what you're suppost to do anyways. That's not a third renaissance, Thats public works. lol.

I agree. WTF Raver-stahl.

Wheelingman04 · #**2124** Posted **Nov 16, 2012, 4:56 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evergrey

I think we should just drop the hokey "Renaissance" branding.

I totally agree. This is the real deal. The population is rising and in migration is outpacing the out migration. Neighborhoods throughout the city are experiencing revitalization and even gentrification. The city's population is getting younger too and more local people are saying great things about Pittsburgh than I have ever heard in the past.

Wheelingman04 · #**2125** Posted **Nov 16, 2012, 4:58 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by daviderik

That's just the mayors office trying to hurry up and take credit and brand whats currently going on downtown. Fixing the streets? Umm thats what you're suppost to do anyways. That's not a third renaissance, Thats public works. lol.

I know. He is terrible and is about the most hands off mayor possible. Bill Peduto would be so much better

Austinlee · #**2126** Posted **Nov 16, 2012, 8:22 AM**

Tower at PNC Plaza, newest design on Gensler's website found by Urbana.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbana

Image credit: Gensler

Austinlee · #**2127** Posted **Nov 16, 2012, 8:57 AM**

This one is so effing cool! New desktop wallpaper....

glowrock · #**2128** Posted **Nov 16, 2012, 11:53 AM**

Those new renderings are freaking awesome! Thanks for posting them!

Aaron (Glowrock)

Urbana · #**2129** Posted **Nov 16, 2012, 12:47 PM**

Also of note is the fact that, in the link I provided in the Tower at PNC Plaza thread, it indicates that the tower will be 545 feet tall or 166 meters.

This info is kind of hidden. You have to press the over arrow one more time even though it looks like you are on the last page.

Here is a link directly to it.

http://du.gensler.com/vol4/pnc/#/credits

daviderik · #**2130** Posted **Nov 16, 2012, 2:59 PM**

"Gensler programmed the podium to activate the street and scaled it to engage the city." Not sure what that means, but I like it!

Found5dollar · #**2131** Posted **Nov 16, 2012, 3:16 PM**

From the PNC tower website:

"The garage will consist of cast-in-place concrete and nine large steel columns that support the building's core. Mobile cranes will be on site in November and December to transport and erect these columns. A crane will be parked on Fifth Avenue from Friday, Nov. 30 to Sunday, Dec. 2 to lower steel columns into the site and another crane will be parked on Wood Street from Friday, Dec. 7 to Sunday, Dec. 9 to erect the tower crane, which will remain on site for 20 - 24 months."

A.K.A. there will be a crane in the skyline in less than a month!

BrianTH · #**2132** Posted **Nov 16, 2012, 4:14 PM**

The middle is a little boring for me now, but the base and (particularly) the top portion now look really cool. In a way it is almost a throwback to the Gulf/Koppers era, but obviously with a very contemporary twist.

In short, I like it a lot.

Evergrey · #**2133** Posted **Nov 16, 2012, 4:18 PM**

the podium is the most exciting piece for me

bmust71 · #**2134** Posted **Nov 16, 2012, 4:42 PM**

like everyone else, i wish this thing were taller, but the top looks amazing.

AaronPGH · #**2135** Posted **Nov 16, 2012, 4:47 PM**

New renderings look slick, but still bummed that this thing seems to lose height with each revision.

Jonboy1983 · #**2136** Posted **Nov 16, 2012, 5:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minivan Werner

The one thing I might change is having the airport connector follow the Ohio river further- maybe crossing over somewhere on Neville Island- so that you can service established neighborhoods like Bellevue and Emsworth.

Yeah, none of this stuff will ever be completed in our lifetimes, which is a bummer.. but maybe at least some kind of long term master plan can be developed now so that when funds do become available then the design, right of ways and other logistics are all ironed out already.

Oh I've thought of such an alignment. Plus, you could have such an alignment pass right through the hart of Moon and offer direct LRT service to Robert Morris University. I then changed my idea consideing they'd be using existing ROW: the West Busway, so it would be slightly less expensive, or so it would seem anyway...

I do agree with you about the necessity of a long range master plan. I saw the current one for 2030, and it doesn't impress me a whole lot. I think it hints at the possibility of an Airport extension for the light rail system as well as a BRT line o Oakland. As others have said on here, that's fine for the short term. As growth continues, heavy rail might be necessary.

Also, on a similar topic, I saw this on Triblive.com:

http://triblive.com/home/2921718-74/...#axzz2CKEbIRGN

Apparently the marcellus shale is impacting the rail traffic on short and regional lines. Since many of these lines are single tracked, I wonder if they'll be upgraded to double tracking.

In addtition to an expanded LRT system and BRT, I'd like to see some commuter rail network. I know AVR wants such a line along the Allegheny River, but what about other lines serving the Ohio River, Carnegie down to Washington and/or from Hazelwood trough Baldwin and down to Central Washington, and to Greensburg (which I know is very unlikely given the heavy freight traffic that uses that corridor already)? With more and more people moving into this region already with more to come, they're going to need to get around somehow. I'm sure there will be bigger push than ever to complete the Southern Beltway/Mon-Fayette projects, but we can't just keep building new roads. Why can't we upgrade our existing rails to accomodate commuter trains that will link our suburbs and urban centers?

I've actually tried to open up to Economic Development South about possibly adding a 3rd lane in each direction along Route 51 (which would be a buses-only lane, more or less), but nobody seems to listen to me... It would basically be an extension of the South Busway through Brentwood, Whitehall, and Baldwin just about to Jefferson Hills...

daviderik · #**2137** Posted **Nov 16, 2012, 5:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

New renderings look slick, but still bummed that this thing seems to lose height with each revision.

Yeah, I remember the rendering from the point of view of PNC park. You could just see the top of the tower. But that was back when it was to be 40 stories and 600 feet. Now I wonder is it will be visible at all. But I do believe they will stick to the current size.

markson33 · #**2138** Posted **Nov 16, 2012, 6:33 PM**

I'm still stoked, but less excited than I was before. I think its a nice looking building and will be a great addition to downtown, but its not an iconic tower in any way and I'm afraid it will just melt into the background of downtown. It kind of looks pudgy to me.

BrianTH · #**2139** Posted **Nov 16, 2012, 8:00 PM**

I think it would have been cool if it had topped USX, and fundamentally reshaped the overall contours of Downtown. Still, it is going to be very prominent from both Mt. Washington and Market Square, which ain't bad.

Minivan Werner · #**2140** Posted **Nov 16, 2012, 8:08 PM**

It's gonna be the 7th tallest building in the city, and the tallest built since 1988. If it was being built in the Strip or Oakland and not in the middle of the CBD it'd probably not look as squat as it seems to. I love it.

as a comparison, it'd be the tallest building in Baltimore, San Diego, Sacremento, etc.