The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Freddypop

This may be because of the selection of stores at that location or it may be due to the higher level of poverty that is included in the Saint John population figures.

Good attempt at a narrative I suppose, but SJ has higher median household income than Moncton:

2015, Median Total Income of Households
Saint John CMA: $63,737
Moncton CMA: $62,871

Household total income groups in 2015 for private households:
Proportion of Households over $100K pre-tax
Moncton: 25%
Saint John: 28%

There may be lots of low-income individuals in Saint John proper but the Kennebecasis Valley is wealthier than most areas of Moncton by quite a fair margin. The SJ CMA has roughly six thousands households that have income over $150K, roughly 400 more households than Moncton CMA which has nine thousand more households reporting total.

SJ has a more obvious floor in terms of poverty but it also has a much higher ceiling. This major difference likely comes down to the resource sector (refinery) and energy sector (Lepreau Nuclear).

A suburb like Quispamsis has a median total income of households of over $100K. Comparatively, Dieppe is $77K. Saint John (City) has a median total income of households of $52K, which is where this idea of widespread poverty generally originates.

[Freddypop]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Good attempt at a narrative I suppose, but SJ has higher median household income than Moncton:

2015, Median Total Income of Households
Saint John CMA: $63,737
Moncton CMA: $62,871

Household total income groups in 2015 for private households:
Proportion of Households over $100K pre-tax
Moncton: 25%
Saint John: 28%

There may be lots of low-income individuals in Saint John proper but the Kennebecasis Valley is wealthier than most areas of Moncton by quite a fair margin. The SJ CMA has roughly six thousands households that have income over $150K, roughly 400 more households than Moncton CMA which has nine thousand more households reporting total.

SJ has a more obvious floor in terms of poverty but it also has a much higher ceiling. This major difference likely comes down to the resource sector (refinery) and energy sector (Lepreau Nuclear).

A suburb like Quispamsis has a median total income of households of over $100K. Comparatively, Dieppe is $77K. Saint John (City) has a median total income of households of $52K, which is where this idea of widespread poverty generally originates.

Appreciate the clarification re income. My bad . My question then, if I were a retailer, where are the $$$ in Saint John going? Are they spending it at home or elsewhere?

[thefishingnut]

I've never gotten the sense that folks around Saint John are all that loyal to their local retail, and there is a significant leakage to the U.S. and to Moncton. I wouldn't doubt a lot of high end retailers would just say don't bother with Saint John, they'll just frequent a Moncton location if they want to as a matter of course.

[MonctonRad]

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Halifax is close enough to Moncton that weekend shopping trips down there are not uncommon either........

[Fischbob]

Some development info from next Monday's Council Agenda:

The Petro-Canada/A&W Development at Bayside and Mount Pleasant East is having its rezoning process reset after omissions were noted in the initial public notice. Not dead, just delayed. The promoter has submitted a couple renders of the proposal, which reveals the convenience store will be branded as a Sobeys Express.





And here are the planning applications with public hearings to be scheduled for May:



A few items of note from the above list:
- 42 Leinster is the Cornerstone Baptist Church - evidently the congregation is decamping but there are plans to make use of the building.
- Looks like a fairly sizeable development in the works for Millidgeville (in the vicinity of Cambridge Estates).
- 36 St. James is the former Salvation Army men's shelter. I wasn't expecting a proposal for adaptive reuse quite so soon so I'm pleasantly surprised - this will be an interesting one to follow.

[RaginRonic]

Originally Posted by Fischbob

Some development info from next Monday's Council Agenda:

The Petro-Canada/A&W Development at Bayside and Mount Pleasant East is having its rezoning process reset after omissions were noted in the initial public notice. Not dead, just delayed. The promoter has submitted a couple renders of the proposal, which reveals the convenience store will be branded as a Sobeys Express.





And here are the planning applications with public hearings to be scheduled for May:



A few items of note from the above list:
- 42 Leinster is the Cornerstone Baptist Church - evidently the congregation is decamping but there are plans to make use of the building.
- Looks like a fairly sizeable development in the works for Millidgeville (in the vicinity of Cambridge Estates).
- 36 St. James is the former Salvation Army men's shelter. I wasn't expecting a proposal for adaptive reuse quite so soon so I'm pleasantly surprised - this will be an interesting one to follow.

This type of gas station project on the corner of Bayside and Mt. Pleasant East...is this kind of thing also supposed to happen on the corner of Chesley Drive and Hilyard Avenue, at that former gas station?

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by RaginRonic

This type of gas station project on the corner of Bayside and Mt. Pleasant East...is this kind of thing also supposed to happen on the corner of Chesley Drive and Hilyard Avenue, at that former gas station?

That's the presumption at this point, yes. AFAIK both properties were handled simultaneously.

Originally Posted by Fischbob

- Looks like a fairly sizeable development in the works for Millidgeville (in the vicinity of Cambridge Estates)

I wonder if this is a continuation of the apartment buildings on Charlie Grace.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.29049.../data=!3m1!1e3

[Fischbob]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I wonder if this is a continuation of the apartment buildings on Charlie Grace.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.29049.../data=!3m1!1e3

Maybe, but I wouldn't be surprised if this development is separate from Charlie Grace Terrace, which is a private street (private streets are signed in white instead of the usual green). Depends on whether the developer also owns the Charlie Grace property.


Source

The map above shows the general area of the proposal. 449 and 453 Boars Head are shown on the map - the proposal also includes 573 Woodward, which is the large lot behind (I know this because I was the one who assigned its [administrative] civic address ). The space between 569 and 577 Woodward is a future public street which will presumably be one of the accesses to this development.

[JHikka]

Via SJCRE:

A high profile parcel of land totaling of 4.65 acres has been SOLD. The land wraps around the existing Canadian Tire Gas Bar and has road frontage on both Rothesay Avenue and McAllister Drive. Watch for a new retail project happening soon!



https://sjcommercialre.com/2018/03/2...thesay-avenue/

[CdnEh]

Originally Posted by Fischbob

Some development info from next Monday's Council Agenda:

The Petro-Canada/A&W Development at Bayside and Mount Pleasant East is having its rezoning process reset after omissions were noted in the initial public notice. Not dead, just delayed. The promoter has submitted a couple renders of the proposal, which reveals the convenience store will be branded as a Sobeys Express.

What the hell is the big deal with this? There was a gas station/convenience store/car wash on that property for years up until it was torn down last year to make way for the new one.

Why are they having to jump through hoops to rebuild a newer version of something that already existed in the same capacity?

[CdnEh]

Speaking of, there seems to be an extreme shortage of gas stations in this city that are easily accessible from the highway.

Like, I live on the West Side and commute to the Grandview industrial park. If I wanted to get gas on the way, I'd have to get off the highway at the Somerset ramp and go to the station on Garden St, then weave my way through the city to get to Bayside.

I can't help but feel like a gas station in the vicinity of the west side terminus of the Harbour Bridge would make a killing. There's truck traffic from the port that might want to fill up before hitting the road, traffic from the Digby Ferry terminal that might want to do the same, plus all traffic entering from the lower west.

[Fischbob]

Originally Posted by CdnEh

Speaking of, there seems to be an extreme shortage of gas stations in this city that are easily accessible from the highway.

Like, I live on the West Side and commute to the Grandview industrial park. If I wanted to get gas on the way, I'd have to get off the highway at the Somerset ramp and go to the station on Garden St, then weave my way through the city to get to Bayside.

I can't help but feel like a gas station in the vicinity of the west side terminus of the Harbour Bridge would make a killing. There's truck traffic from the port that might want to fill up before hitting the road, traffic from the Digby Ferry terminal that might want to do the same, plus all traffic entering from the lower west.

Your prayers have been at least partially answered, particularly if you're coming in from Lorneville. There's a permit under review for a gas station/convenience store next to the new Tim Hortons on Galbraith Place in the Spruce Lake Industrial Park - it can be viewed in the City's building permit app.

[RaginRonic]

Originally Posted by CdnEh

Speaking of, there seems to be an extreme shortage of gas stations in this city that are easily accessible from the highway.

Like, I live on the West Side and commute to the Grandview industrial park. If I wanted to get gas on the way, I'd have to get off the highway at the Somerset ramp and go to the station on Garden St, then weave my way through the city to get to Bayside.

I can't help but feel like a gas station in the vicinity of the west side terminus of the Harbour Bridge would make a killing. There's truck traffic from the port that might want to fill up before hitting the road, traffic from the Digby Ferry terminal that might want to do the same, plus all traffic entering from the lower west.

That comment kind of got me to do something here, and that's give a count as to how many gas stations there are in Saint John.

To be honest, there's not as many of them than what I think there should be for the city, and some parts of town aren't even represented with one.

But in any event, the list follows below.

West Saint John

Lorneville-1

Wilsons-600 King William Rd.

West Side-6

Needs Fast Fuel-2 Plaza Ave.
Canadian Tire Gas+-891 Fairville Blvd.
Esso-15 Church Ave.
Irving-10 Main St. West
Irving-783 Fairville Blvd.
Shell-112 Main St. West

Millidgeville-2

Irving-701 Millidge Ave.
Millidgeville Service Centre & Convenience-384 Millidge Ave.

North End-2

Shell-511 Somerset St.
Petro-Canada(under re-construction)-5 Hilyard St.

SouthCentral-1

Irving-56 City Rd.

East Saint John-12

Ultramar-111 Bayside Dr.
Petro-Canada(under re-construction)-241 Bayside Dr.
Canadian Tire Gas+-564 Rothesay Ave.
Esso-570 Rothesay Ave.
Irving-1700 Rothesay Rd.
Irving-830 Loch Lomond Rd.
Petro-Canada-835 Loch Lomond Rd.
Irving-1385 Hickey Rd.
Irving-1233 Loch Lomond Rd.
XTR-1506 Loch Lomond Rd.
Ultramar-4105 Airport Rd.
Irving-4207 Loch Lomond Rd.

CityWide Total-24

As we see above, some parts of the city are WAY under-represented with those types of stations, while one has more than it's fair share of them. If I were to try to even out some parts of Saint John with a few more stations, and had the authority to do so, I'd do it like this.

With the former City Laundry building on City Rd. now gone, I'd have the City Road Bakery get a new building on that spot of City Rd., have a new sports bar and grill built on the former Scotsburn Dairy building across the street from Harbour Station, and have the older building on City Rd. demolished, with the new gas station/convenience store built there.

In terms of the uptown core, I don't really know if there is a place for such a business there now. If I could, I'd have one placed on a piece of the former Lantic Sugar Refinery property on the western side of Charlotte St. It's the only place I think there's enough room for one.

In terms of the North End, there's really only one or 2 places I know of where a new station could go...either on the former Sears/Zellers/Best Value/Zellers Select property at Lansdowne Plaza, or back at the former Shell property on the corner of Somerset and Wellesley. With the service station building gone, there'd be enough room for a convenience store there too, and the store could be aligned with the back of it's building facing the green house at 66 Wellesley Ave.

That would also cause the former convenience store across the street(which was the former 7-11/Green Gables location) to become surplus, and trigger it's demolition, which could be used afterward for some affordable housing on that corner.

But then, the things after the station list I gave there are just my own brainstorms. Any thoughts from anyone else on this?

[McKay]

Does anyone know why they closed the gas bar at the Golden Ball building?

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by McKay

Does anyone know why they closed the gas bar at the Golden Ball building?

There is no profit in stand alone gas bars - they make money off of convenience stores - that’s why every stand alone has station closed in the city. An Irving is mostly out of the retail business - rather lease stores to Circle K and simply supply the fuel.

[JHikka]

The day we've literally been waiting decades for has finally come. 91 King has been sold.

Originally Posted by SJCRE

After more than 6 months of negotiations, 91 King Street has been purchased by an investor. Integrity Real Estate Investments (IREI) is the proud new owner. The transaction was complicated as the property carried some restrictive covenants that had been imposed years ago when the land was owned by the Anglican church. IREI’s solicitor, Andrew Costin, a partner with the law firm of Gorman Nason, was instrumental in revising the restrictions to allow for the intended development of the property. Steve Carson from Develop Saint John played a key role in interfacing with the church representatives to reach a successful conclusion.

IREI, along with its investors, have plans to redevelop the property. Current zoning requires that the ground floor remain commercial but the upper floors will likely be converted to residential or complimentary uses. IREI and their consultants, Morgan Lanigan and Melissa Wakefield of EXP Architects Inc., are encouraged by early reviews of the existing structure during the due diligence period that suggest additional floors could be added to the building.

The “metro brown” & red aluminum siding covering much of the building’s character will be coming down and it’s intended that the building facade will be restored to its former glory. The building has some strong mid-century elements including terrazzo flooring which shall be preserved and built upon. IREI and EXP will be working closely together over the coming months on the project’s design and next steps.

This is fantastic news for uptown Saint John. This strategic corner has been sorely underutilized for years and it’s time has now come! The public can continue to watch for news of the development on Facebook and Twitter using #91King

The original facade, as posted by SJCRE, looks something like this:

[Whaler]

Took several months but the deal closed yesterday.

[michael_d40]

They also purchased 21 King Street on the corner of Canterbury. (The former Royal Bank of Canada building). Exciting times!

[michael_d40]

From reading the article from huddle.today their plan is to add up to 11 additional floors to 91 King and have it ready in as little as 18 months.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by michael_d40

From reading the article from huddle.today their plan is to add up to 11 additional floors to 91 King and have it ready in as little as 18 months.

Per this article: http://huddle.today/new-developer-bu...wn-saint-john/

Originally Posted by Huddle

People have spent much of the last three decades worrying about the future of King Street. Now thanks to developers like Chang, the street is undergoing a renewal. Last year, she bought a property near the top and King Street (70-76) and moved here from Vancouver to oversee renovations. Today, it was announced that her company has also acquired the former Woolworth’s building at 91 King Street. The plan to invest millions in both properties.

Chang and her daughter and business partner, Siobhán Riley, have grand ambitions for the building on King Square. They plan to repair and enhance the current facade with and renovate the ground floor for commercial use. Then they plan to construct as many as 11 additional floors with 55 or 60 residential units.
...
She believes the province’s economy is sound, with a small, but steady growth rate over the last few years. She says there’s “money in the buy” on properties here, meaning developers can pick up properties well under their market value, which is not possible in Vancouver right now. They bought the building for $1.3-million and plan to invest $3.3-million to ready it for new commercial and residential tenants.

That's....extremely ambitious! Will be very interesting to follow.