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View Poll Results: Which transbay tower design scheme do you like best?
#1 Richard Rogers 40 8.05%
#2 Cesar Pelli 99 19.92%
#3 SOM 358 72.03%
Voters: 497. You may not vote on this poll

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  #761  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2007, 2:06 AM
BTinSF BTinSF is offline
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Originally Posted by craeg View Post
I for one hope that the piano renderings are not released anytime soon. The reception for the transbay tower in SF has been pretty damn positive for dont change anything anywhere ever San Francisco. I'm worried that an additional 2-3 towers in the 1k+ category would just be too much too soon.
Actually, I think it may be a pretty effective tactic to diffuse attention from any one of these projects.
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  #762  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2007, 3:29 AM
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In all intended irony I think that the public will accept the Piano towers better than the transbay tower. Nothing like conservative architecture for the most "liberal" city in the world!
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  #763  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2007, 3:30 AM
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As comical as it may be to read such articles, this is the rant of an obvious NIMBY over at SFBG. I could'nt help but laugh at how ridiculous this sounded:

Article written by Tim Redmond

Quote:
If you don't like the notion of a 1,200-foot tower scarring San Francisco's skyline -- and I don't -- then maybe you ought to read this fascinating piece on Calitics, and stop for a minute to think about what this city, and this state, is doing.

Why do we have to live with a giant highrise office tower near the Transbay Terminal? Because if we don't, there won't be any money to build what should be the central transit link for the Bay Area, a landmark bus and train station on the scale (we're told) of Grand Central in New York. It's an essential part of the city's future.

But the project costs a lot of money, almost a billion dollars -- and nobody wants to pay higher taxes to fund this sort of thing. In fact, nobody in California wants to pay higher taxes for anything. So the folks at City Hall have decided that the only way we can have a new transit terminal is if we hock a piece of our city and our skyline to fund it. So we take some of the land on the terminal site and let a developer build a monstrosity of a highrise on it -- and that will bring in the money that we can't get any other way.

It 's the same reason we have that god-awful RIncon Tower sticking its ugly head into the sky: The developer offered to pay for a fair amount of affordable housing and other community amenities that the taxayers won't fund because local government can't raise taxes in California without reaching extraordinary lengths that are almost politically impossible. So here's the deal: You want affordable housing? Give a big developer the rights to do something awful, and in exchange, we'll get a few dollops of cash for civic needs.

Imagine, for a moment, what the state might look like if we'd had to cut this kind of deal to build the University of California system. You want nice colleges? Okay -- sell off the coast and let it become a giant Miami Beach. You don't want to do that? Too bad -- no world-class university system for your kids.

This is the devil's bargain we have agreed to settle for in 2007, and it sucks.
Its people with this type of mentality that are holding us back from amazing projects such as Transbay. People like this just hate height no matter what the building looks like. Its sad really, in my opinion.
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  #764  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2007, 4:00 AM
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It's more than sad, it's blantantly ignorant.
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  #765  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2007, 4:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Reminiscence View Post
As comical as it may be to read such articles, this is the rant of an obvious NIMBY over at SFBG. I could'nt help but laugh at how ridiculous this sounded:

Article written by Tim Redmond



Its people with this type of mentality that are holding us back from amazing projects such as Transbay. People like this just hate height no matter what the building looks like. Its sad really, in my opinion.
PPL like this don't hate height, they hate what height represents. They hate MONEY and corporations. Funny that these same people are the ones who want to tax the hell out of everything (what was up with that 20% parking lot tax bullshit in 2006?). If a developer wants to build a mixed commercial building on a commercial space (yes, airports and transit terminals are zoned commercial spaces), I say, good! The public education analogy this person used was dead before it left the ground.
Let the business interests pay for it. I actually prefer it that way, just think what kind of renderings we'd have if the project were government designed
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  #766  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2007, 4:11 AM
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Yeah WTF is that guy talking about? Miami Beach is one of the best parts of the country. It would be great to have that in SF. What a horrible argument.
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  #767  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2007, 4:12 AM
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^^^Tim Redmond has been writing that kind of stuff for the Bay Guardian for at least 2 decades. I've met him--he's an interesting guy. But that view of things from that source is really a big yawn. Does anybody still read the BG?
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  #768  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2007, 4:15 AM
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Yeah WTF is that guy talking about? Miami Beach is one of the best parts of the country. It would be great to have that in SF. What a horrible argument.
Sorry, you lost me and 99% of CA there. Take a look at the many photo threads on Highway 1 and tell me you'd rather have half-empty condos lining the coast blocking public access to the Pacific. That's what he's talking about. This isn't Florida. For one thing, it's 30 degrees cooler.
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  #769  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2007, 4:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTinSF View Post
^^^Tim Redmond has been writing that kind of stuff for the Bay Guardian for at least 2 decades. I've met him--he's an interesting guy. But that view of things from that source is really a big yawn. Does anybody still read the BG?
When I'm in the mood for a good laugh, yes
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  #770  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2007, 4:29 AM
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I believe Webster needs to redefine the word "liberal," or at least give it two classifications, as I, a flexible liberal, see myself distanced more and more from these kind of liberals every day!
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  #771  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2007, 5:09 AM
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It really isn't so ridiculous when you consider this to be rather a matter of opinion and taste. No matter how beautiful and cool you think a skyscraper can be, it is an ugly monstrosity to another. Skyscrapers are man-made objects. The bigger and taller they are, the worse it gets for certain people. To some, they can never match the beauty of nature itself. Perhaps Tim Redmond would feel much better if San Francisco remained as it was in 2006, 1958, or even 1847. I can appreciate natural vistas almost as much Redmond seems to, but outside of urban centers. Cities can be just as beautiful with tall modern skyscrapers in a different way, but that is just my own opinion. Maybe it is yours too. It is definately not Tim Redmond's. To him a skyscraper can never be beautiful. At least on SSP I don't feel alone.
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  #772  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2007, 5:09 AM
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You should have heard my old boss when I was doing landscaping. When ever we would come back across the bridge from Berkeley, he would bitch and moan about 1 Rincon Hill, saying how it was going to be the tallest building in SF (and tall is bad OBVIOUSLY ...nevermind the fact he was wrong about the height anyways).

He would then say how 1 Rincon is so completely "unsustainable" because it's all electric (???), and if there's a fire you'll get locked in your room, because the locks are electric, and you wont be able to get out because the elevators won't work, and it'll fall over in an earthquake. All this from a 55 year-old man with years of construction experience (he's also an ex-hippy...).
Me and a co-worker actually had to inform him that buidings ARE in fact, required to have stairways, due to the fire-code (and plain-old common sense)...this is the type of ignorance and knee-jerk reaction we're dealing with here.
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  #773  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2007, 5:20 AM
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Like it has been said - these people don't hate the tower, they hate the fact that something has to be built to find it - be it good or bad. These people think that it (Transit Terminal) should just pop up overnight at no charge, compromise, or sacrifice.

Look at Europe - the business centers are mostly built around transit hubs, or vice verse. Its just good urban planning and it just makes sense.

Its just the cliche awful people who oppose things for the simple fact of opposing things. Thankfully, it looks like common sense and rational people will silence their ignorance and short-sightedness.
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  #774  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2007, 5:31 AM
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I know another ex-hippie that just hates One Rincon Hill, thinking that it is truly ugly. He also does not like the idea of new towers obscuring the hills of the city, and ruining the skyline. Most ex-hippies do not like tall buildings. San Francisco once was, and maybe still is the hippie or ex-hippie center of the world. At the same time around the late 60's and early 70's, it was almost going to be the third tallest skyline in the world. There was even a ballot initiative in 1971 to cap all new building in San Francisco at only 6 stories. Anything 7 floors or taller is considered a highrise. The initiative did not pass, but years of protest that followed eventually resulted in a bad skyline haircut at 550 feet.

Last edited by SFView; Aug 9, 2007 at 5:48 AM.
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  #775  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2007, 5:40 AM
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I know that some of this is off target but it really conveys the excitement of change...

Heady Week For The City
C.W. Nevius

Thursday, August 9, 2007
You have to admit, this has been a pretty cool week for San Francisco.

Architects unveiled plans for a towering, landmark skyscraper that will transform the city's skyline. And Gap founder Donald Fisher offered to build a museum for his one-of-a-kind art collection, making San Francisco a mecca for modern art.

And then, oh yes, there was the national attention when Barry Bonds hit his record-breaking home run at AT&T Park. I got an e-mail from a friend in Asia on Wednesday, the morning after Bonds' blast. He said the story was on the front page of a Hong Kong newspaper.

"It's a pretty exciting time in San Francisco,'' said Mayor Gavin Newsom. "We can reflect on where we are and where we are going as a city.''

The mayor still has to deal with the misery and problems of the homeless and the hassles of the Muni system. But for a moment, these events reminded us what it is like to live in a city of substance, one reaching for the heights.

As Craig Hartman, an architect for Skidmore Owings and Merrill, says, the proposed tower rising more than 1,000 feet above the Transbay Terminal isn't a building -- it's a statement.

"This is an important signal to the rest of the world to continue to see San Francisco as a global city,'' says Hartman, whose firm submitted one of the designs. "Great cities have always marked their points of arrival with a mark in the skyline.''

Because when you build the tallest building on the West Coast, you're making an announcement to the rest of the world -- "Hey, take a look at this."

"It becomes an icon for the city,'' says Zigmund Rubel, president of the San Francisco chapter of the American Institute of Architects. "It is what everyone looks for when they are coming in on an airplane.''

Typically, Hartman says, a statement tower like this should rise well above the surrounding structures. This one certainly qualifies, and the public controversy seems destined to rise to even greater heights. If you've looked at the comments on SFGate.com, you know that many residents are not pleased with the idea of the edifice.

That's all part of the process, of course. Go back and read the news clippings about the "outrage'' the Transamerica Pyramid caused when it was going up in the '60s and '70s. One critic wrote that the structure had "all the grace of a dentist's drill.'' Yet today it is an unmistakable, if not dominant, feature of the skyline.

Art, on the other hand, is often heard about but not seen. The Fisher collection, a comprehensive gathering of the work of modern artists, was much discussed but not often viewed, at least in total. His offer to build a museum to house the pieces was not only a big deal here, it was national news.

"This is tremendous,'' says John Buchanan, director of fine art for the museums of San Francisco. "It really nails San Francisco as a serious place to come face to face with modern works from the last 30 or 40 years or so.''

And then there is Bonds. In a perfect world, he'd be another kind of guy -- sunny, cheery and uplifting. Instead, he's more like a summer day in San Francisco -- forbidding, overcast and chilly.

But you have to admit, in an age of hired professionals, where your hometown team's hero may have grown up in Pennsylvania and played college ball in Indiana -- sorry, Joe Montana, but it's true -- Bonds is a legitimately local guy. He went to high school in the Bay Area, his dad played for the Giants, and AT&T Park will always be the House that Barry Built.

He is as identified with San Francisco as the Golden Gate. My son, no baseball fan, is just back from a summer in Washington, D.C.

"Wow,'' he said when he returned. "People really don't like Barry Bonds.''

Yeah, we know. But we're dealing with it. As a fan said on these pages not long ago, "He's a jerk, but he's our jerk.'' Other cities can boo him, but this week they weren't in the national spotlight. San Francisco was.

Now let's admit it, San Franciscans can be a little smug. When out-of-towners mention that they've seen one of the four B's -- the bridges, the bay, or Bonds -- up close and in person, locals sometimes resist the urge to point out that they live right here with them all the time.

And, of course, sometimes they don't resist.

That's one of the reasons why the recent columns about homeless campers and dirty hypodermic needles in the city's parks have hit so hard. It runs counter to our image of this as a world-class city, with restaurants to die for, and its own national radio talk show catchphrase -- "San Francisco politics.''

This week's news is more like it: soaring vision, lofty achievement and a reach for the heights.

It's like those tourists standing around the Powell Street cable car turnaround in their shorts and T-shirts, shivering.

"How,'' they want to know, "do you stand this cold?''

We prefer to think of it as cool.

This article appeared on page A - 1 of the San Francisco Chronicle
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  #776  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2007, 6:15 AM
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Originally Posted by rocketman_95046 View Post
I know that some of this is off target but it really conveys the excitement of change...

Heady Week For The City
C.W. Nevius

Thursday, August 9, 2007
You have to admit, this has been a pretty cool week for San Francisco.
You forgot to mention the new imac
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  #777  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2007, 6:20 AM
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You forgot to mention the new imac
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  #778  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2007, 6:21 AM
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You know, for something with "all the grace of a dentist drill," I see tourists from all over the world with cameras taking pictures of the Transamerica Pyramid from wherever they happen to see it. This is what I hopefully envision will happen after the new Transbay Tower is built. For now, the design I feel most suitable for the role is SOM's design. I already looks like a major future tourist landmark attraction to me.

all photos by SFView












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  #779  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2007, 6:22 AM
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you forgot to mention the new imac
"and, there's more ..." - Steve Jobs

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  #780  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2007, 6:34 AM
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By the way, Renzo Piano's towers are depicted in the SOM model. Not to draw attention away from Transbay, the two middle towers amoung the four of equal height across the street from Transbay, are reduced from 1200 to 900 feet tall. That is not an official design change.
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