Winnipeg's Exchange District | East/West | Development

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by buzzg

13th Hour Tattoo on Notre Dame @ Adelaide is closing... it's been there for years. Owner said business dropped off when all the construction for the Calvary Temple parking lot was happening, and never really picked back up. Isn't blaming it specifically, but said that spot is now in a "dead zone" between the parking lot and Hydro station.

Do tattoo shops really benefit that much from people walking by?

I would think much of their business must be word of mouth referrals.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by h0twired

Do tattoo shops really benefit that much from people walking by?

I would think much of their business must be word of mouth referrals.

This right here... if the owner doesn't know that, well then it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't have the savvy to navigate a tough phase for his business.

[1ajs]

blah

[buzzg]

Don’t think he’s blaming what is there now, was just an observation that he didn’t have parking for quite a while when all the construction was going on.

[Kris22]

As far as 13th hour tattoo goes, I follow them on instagram and I remember a couple years back one of their main tattoo guys left and went solo, probably taking a large chunk of clientele with him. He does really cool viking-style realism with grey tones. I can't imagine parking/construction really being an issue because tattoos are booked months in advance and not something you would just cancel because you circled the block once and couldn't find a spot right out front.

That being said, I really can't stand what that church has done to the surrounding area. If they really want to be part of a community, it's best to look at what type of community you are situated in. They are right in the middle of an very urban neighbourhood of high-rises and character buildings, so surrounding yourself by a sea of surface parking that is used once a week is NOT contributing to a community whatsoever. It actually makes the area more dangerous for the residents! Residential development was slowly creeping that way (Adelaide conversion, those condos that took 10 years to convert) but it has hit a dead stop due to that fucking church.

[buzzg]

^Yeah it's brutal. The worst part about it is that most of their congregation likely lives in the area, and may not drive. I've been by there Sunday mornings and the lots are nowhere even close to being full.

It would have been interesting to see what the current government would have done in that scenario. My guess would be just expropriating the land or making the needed deals to get the station done, and left the church to figure out what to do with the money. I would have been OK with that.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by buzzg

^Yeah it's brutal. The worst part about it is that most of their congregation likely lives in the area, and may not drive.

It's one of the biggest churches in the city, and draws patrons from all over the city.

[windypeg]

Because it's so hard to find parking in downtown Winnipeg at 9am on a Sunday morning...

[1ajs]

that church has political pull unfortnatly...

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Bdog

It's one of the biggest churches in the city, and draws patrons from all over the city.

Either way – parking lots are never close to full, and there's many others within a 1 minute walk that are completely empty on Sundays.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by Kris22

That being said, I really can't stand what that church has done to the surrounding area. If they really want to be part of a community, it's best to look at what type of community you are situated in. They are right in the middle of an very urban neighbourhood of high-rises and character buildings, so surrounding yourself by a sea of surface parking that is used once a week is NOT contributing to a community whatsoever.

Ehhh, as a real estate minded person I get what you're saying, but what they do for the community and for people far exceeds the damage we complaing about ie parking lots being neighbourhood killers etc.

That church does a lot of good, albeit not real etstae-wise lol.

[esquire]

^ I wouldn't let them off the hook that easily. They might do good work in their community but at the same time they have a responsibility to be good neighbours and not ones that contribute to the decline of the area. Because all that surface parking does not make for a better neighbourhood.

They could have, and should have worked to find ways to deal with their parking situation without demolishing buildings to add to their already large amount of parking available for Sunday services.

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

that church has political pull unfortnatly...

What they (the church and Hydro) did to that block is criminal. It's astonishing to me that the city let them get away with that. There's the same amount of parking, but now a giant swath of the street is yet another giant stone wall fortress. Basically guaranteeing that block stays completely dead permanently. Everyone involved should be ashamed.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I wouldn't let them off the hook that easily. They might do good work in their community but at the same time they have a responsibility to be good neighbours and not ones that contribute to the decline of the area. Because all that surface parking does not make for a better neighbourhood.

They could have, and should have worked to find ways to deal with their parking situation without demolishing buildings to add to their already large amount of parking available for Sunday services.

I agree, it's criminal but they clearly don't understand that the way you and I do. There is no way they thought, or that we can confirm, that is is causing the neighbourhood to decline.

Quite frankly, their direct, person-to-person work with the poor, if we're gonna jump on pedestals, easily trumps our brand of better urbanism.

I like to think I'm kind, helpful, or generous, and I think they made huge mistakes. But I'm probably millenia short of their efforts from a humanitarian perspective.

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

What they (the church and Hydro) did to that block is criminal. It's astonishing to me that the city let them get away with that. There's the same amount of parking, but now a giant swath of the street is yet another giant stone wall fortress. Basically guaranteeing that block stays completely dead permanently. Everyone involved should be ashamed.

They probably got what they wanted because they do so much for the people. It's easier for a church to do that the city. Also way cheaper for a church to do it.

Again, not justifying the bad real estate decisions, but that's why I ain't mad.

[esquire]

^ The point is that it's not one or the other. They can still do their good work while not actively helping to ruin their surroundings. Making the neighbourhood worse actually undermines the work they are attempting to do for the people living in that area.

[Kris22]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ The point is that it's not one or the other. They can still do their good work while not actively helping to ruin their surroundings. Making the neighbourhood worse actually undermines the work they are attempting to do for the people living in that area.

I agree. Doing one good deed does not mean you can turn a blind eye to everything else.

Those particular few blocks of Adelaide/hargrave/dagmar along notre dame feel totally desolate and abandoned during the day and unsafe at night and was only just starting to see improvement when the church expanded its parking and the city plunked down a new substation.

Mega churches with mega parking are meant for the 'burbs. Like a few others said, there is no shortage of parking in that area on Sundays. I know, I used to live at 370 Donald which backs on to all this mess. I think that's why I feel particularly invested in this; it was hard to see my own neighbourhood become worse right before my eyes. Buildings demolished that actually contained businesses and provided a streetscape, new surface parking, new substation. Woo hoo. And all of this ONE block away from Princess street which is one of the more continuous streetscapes in the Exchange and has potential to be quite amazing one day. That will never be able to flow westward up notre dame now and connect to the businesses further that way.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

What they (the church and Hydro) did to that block is criminal. It's astonishing to me that the city let them get away with that. There's the same amount of parking, but now a giant swath of the street is yet another giant stone wall fortress. Basically guaranteeing that block stays completely dead permanently. Everyone involved should be ashamed.

The city actually did raise red flags, but as it was a Hydro (a provincial crown corp) project, they couldn't legally stop them.

Originally Posted by esquire

^ The point is that it's not one or the other. They can still do their good work while not actively helping to ruin their surroundings. Making the neighbourhood worse actually undermines the work they are attempting to do for the people living in that area.

Exactly. Yes they're helping a lot of people in the area that need it, but actively creating a desolate area surrounding the church isn't helping anyone – and actually gives more space for "bad stuff" to happen, and ensures there won't be a growing number of eyes on the street.

[michelleb]

Pentecostals/evangelicals are not nearly the nice people you think they are. Mega churches are a huge red flag to be avoided. It's not surprising they would think nothing of bulldozing the neighbourhood in their zeal to expand.

[joshlemer]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

What they (the church and Hydro) did to that block is criminal. It's astonishing to me that the city let them get away with that. There's the same amount of parking, but now a giant swath of the street is yet another giant stone wall fortress. Basically guaranteeing that block stays completely dead permanently. Everyone involved should be ashamed.

What did they do to the block? Anyone have before pics?

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by joshlemer

What did they do to the block? Anyone have before pics?

@brent_bellamy
17 Oct 2017
#WinnipegNow+Then: Small business, storefronts & pedestrian quality lost to a parking lot created by Mb. Hydro & @CTWinnipeg on Notre Dame.