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  #821  
Old Posted May 1, 2018, 9:59 PM
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Originally Posted by vid View Post
Vancouver has the cheapest tech employees in North America, working for about 30% less than those in the US west coast. That's why they're there.

But congratulations, Vancouver. You're the Walmart of tech employees! And the building looks very nice.
Hey man, gotta start somewhere. Besides 30% less than the west coast is still 6 figure plus... these are great jobs.

The real benefit is the spin-offs, as tech workers spend several years at companies like Amazon, then start their own ventures which really allows the local scene to flourish.

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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Yeah, I wish they had picked Calgary which would have been a smarter business decision given the deal they could have secured on office space.
Why? Calgary's got dozens of million or near million square foot users, Vancouver has none. This is much more needed in Vancouver than Calgary, especially given the cost of real estate.
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  #822  
Old Posted May 1, 2018, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Denscity View Post
Isn't it a million square feet not 100 000?

Edit: Amazon's total will be one million square feet.
This project alone is over 400k square feet.
I wasn't referring to the total space but, the typical size of their expansions in Vancouver and Toronto before this one. The Vancouver ones get a lot more press.
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  #823  
Old Posted May 1, 2018, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
I wasn't referring to the total space but, the typical size of their expansions in Vancouver and Toronto before this one. The Vancouver ones get a lot more press.
Was Toronto's a similar job increase? Don't remember but assume sq ft per job would be similar.
And surprising with all press being based out of Toronto.
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  #824  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
...Why? Calgary's got dozens of million or near million square foot users, Vancouver has none. This is much more needed in Vancouver than Calgary, especially given the cost of real estate.
It would have been a lot cheaper for Amazon to secure space in Calgary, they'd have their pic of location, and it's not that long a flight from Seattle. Plus it would have brought some much needed diversification for that city.

Vancouver doesn't need anymore upward pressure on housing prices, especially if many of these jobs will be filled from offshore.
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  #825  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 12:10 AM
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I heard about this Vancouver thing through a Facebook Live from Justin Trudeau on my FB news feed. So my impression is the media was greater, yeah lol. Didn`t even know Amazon was in TO.
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  #826  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Denscity View Post
Was Toronto's a similar job increase? Don't remember but assume sq ft per job would be similar.
And surprising with all press being based out of Toronto.
There were similar scale. They did get press. Just not the same as Vancouver. I believe Amazon anchors buildings in Vancouver. They are just space filler in Toronto. That may have something to do with it.
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  #827  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 12:49 AM
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Ya probably. Toronto has more 1 million sq foot plus tenants than Vancouver of course.
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  #828  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 9:36 PM
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Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
Their total announced so far is 750,000 sqft. Final expansion as currently rumoured will be slightly over 1 million sqft and several thousand employees.

The Boston announcement came out today, 2,000 person expansion to their operations there, so smaller than the Vancouver expansion but still massive.

I haven't heard anything about a Toronto expansion, but WS is right they have historically followed Vancouver announcements with similar Toronto announcements.
If I was Amazon I'd be investing in Toronto. It seems kind of strange to me that they have virtually ignored Toronto for any expansions (or its getting zero press because I have not heard of anything). It's the largest city in the country and has the most diverse workforce, top schools, right nearby the biggest tech area in the country (Waterloo), but nothing. Amazon seems to be obsessed with Vancouver, I guess its close to Seattle.

My personal opinion is that HQ2 will never go to Toronto. It'll go somewhere in the US guaranteed.
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  #829  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 10:19 PM
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It's exactly a case of you not hearing about it.They aren't ignoring Toronto and have been expanding their presence. They have committed to 250 to 300,000 square feet of class A office space and over 2 million square feet of warehouse space. There are always job postings. The office space and number of office workers was slightly smaller than Vancouvers output before this recent announcement.
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  #830  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by travis3000 View Post
If I was Amazon I'd be investing in Toronto. It seems kind of strange to me that they have virtually ignored Toronto for any expansions (or its getting zero press because I have not heard of anything).
There isn't much press but they're currently have 86 openings in Toronto most of which are either software or robotics related.

https://www.amazon.jobs/en/locations/toronto-canada
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  #831  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 10:47 PM
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To add: It's probable especially with this latest announcement Vancouver has the higher paying more senior jobs. They haven't ignored building up Toronto offices when it comes to number of jobs and office space.
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  #832  
Old Posted May 3, 2018, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by travis3000 View Post
If I was Amazon I'd be investing in Toronto. It seems kind of strange to me that they have virtually ignored Toronto for any expansions (or its getting zero press because I have not heard of anything). It's the largest city in the country and has the most diverse workforce, top schools, right nearby the biggest tech area in the country (Waterloo), but nothing. Amazon seems to be obsessed with Vancouver, I guess its close to Seattle.

My personal opinion is that HQ2 will never go to Toronto. It'll go somewhere in the US guaranteed.
I think the "top schools" is a bit far fetched. SFU and Waterloo for decades both have had the largest computer science programs in Canada and are comparable. There is not a big difference between UBC and UofT.

Downtown Vancouver has the advantage of being a float plane ride into centre of Seattle as well being a short drive or train ride away. That makes Vancouver idea for activities that involve tight collaboration with the head-office in Seattle.

The selling feature of Toronto is that is the logistics and corporate centre of Canada.

As for the concern about Vancouver software engineering earning 30% less that California, that should be expected. Canadian dollar is 30% discounted from par and a few years ago it was at par. The Canadian and US salaries will float relative to their local markets. No one is going to get very part trying to tie these two together.
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  #833  
Old Posted May 3, 2018, 4:17 AM
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Just because Toronto is the largest city doesn't mean it would get the most of everything. Vancouver has most of the same benefits of Toronto (diverse workforce, top schools, high quality of life, etc) just on a smaller scale. And think of tech in the US, they aren't only centred in NYC even though it's the largest city in that country, it doesn't count as much as you'd think. Vancouver is much more similar to Seattle and the Bay Area, which are two main tech clusters in the US, so it makes as much sense for Vancouver to get it as it would Toronto
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  #834  
Old Posted May 3, 2018, 4:15 PM
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Its all population guys. The Golden Horseshoe has almost twice the population of the entire province of British Columbia! Toronto has the people and thus has the skilled workers. If I was a tech company, I'd be investing boat loads in TO. Even the CEO of Google agreed in several statements. Not to say Vancouver shouldn't have tech investment, they have a great skilled population and the proximity to the US west coast makes sense. I get why Amazon would want a tech workforce there. Im just a bit surprised why I haven't heard one press release about jobs in the GTA for Amazon.
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  #835  
Old Posted May 3, 2018, 4:18 PM
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Originally Posted by travis3000 View Post
Its all population guys. The Golden Horseshoe has almost twice the population of the entire province of British Columbia! Toronto has the people and thus has the skilled workers. If I was a tech company, I'd be investing boat loads in TO. Even the CEO of Google agreed in several statements.
So why was Amazon in Seattle in the first place? And then, by that logic, HQ2 will obviously go to New York.

Companies don't just go where there is a greater population....
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  #836  
Old Posted May 3, 2018, 4:19 PM
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Originally Posted by csbvan View Post
So why was Amazon in Seattle in the first place? And then, by that logic, HQ2 will obviously go to New York.

Companies don't just go where there is a greater population....
You jumped on that one quickly, didn't even give me time to finish. Go back and read my second statement after.
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  #837  
Old Posted May 3, 2018, 5:04 PM
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WTF? What more do you need with everything that has been shown and said? There are Amazon jobs in Toronto including by far the largest logistic infrastructure. (YAY to $14/Hour) Just because you didn't read or hear about any of this doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The announcements are still in the cloud for you to look up too. You're certainly not lacking in self esteem.

i'll give you a start
http://business.financialpost.com/te...-100-positions

Definition of self absorbed to continue on with the, "I didn't hear/see it so it doesn't exist" with everything that has been presented by numerous forumers.

Last edited by WhipperSnapper; May 3, 2018 at 5:16 PM.
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  #838  
Old Posted May 3, 2018, 9:38 PM
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Amazon basically just said "fuck you" to affordable housing in Seattle.

Amazon Pauses Huge Development Plans in Seattle Over Tax Plan

By Nick Wingfield
May 2, 2018

SEATTLE — Amazon abruptly escalated a fight with its hometown on Wednesday, halting major expansion plans in Seattle because of a tax being considered by the City Council.

The new tax would charge large employers in the city about $500 per employee, with the money going to help alleviate a housing crisis. The tax is squarely aimed at Amazon, which is Seattle’s largest employer and frequently blamed by many residents for the city’s soaring housing costs.

The company said it would halt construction of a new building it was planning to erect downtown and reconsider occupying another that is already under construction, putting 7,000 or more jobs in jeopardy.

Late Wednesday morning, Drew Herdener, an Amazon spokesman, said that “pending the outcome of the head tax vote by City Council, Amazon has paused all construction planning” on a large building in downtown Seattle that was scheduled to begin construction later this year. Mr. Herdener also said Amazon was “evaluating options” to lease out space it had planned to use in another building that is already going up elsewhere downtown.

The decision took city officials and developers by surprise. In a statement, Seattle’s mayor said she was alarmed by Amazon’s announcement and added that she planned to work with members of Seattle’s business, labor and community leaders in the coming days to find common ground. The council is expected to vote on the tax proposal on May 14.

“I’m deeply concerned about the impact this decision will have on a large range of jobs — from our building trades, to restaurant workers, to nurses, manufacturing jobs and tech workers,” said Mayor Jenny Durkan. “At the same time, our city must urgently address our homelessness and affordability crisis and lift up those who have been left behind.”

Amazon’s decision comes as officials in other communities across the country are jockeying to bring Amazon’s business to town. The company is shopping for a second headquarters elsewhere in North America, saying it has outgrown Seattle. And just this week it announced plans to hire thousands more employees in Vancouver and Boston.

The plan the Seattle City Council is discussing would apply only to companies with at least $20 million or more annually in taxable gross receipts. The so-called head tax would be transformed into a payroll tax in 2021. Three-quarters of the estimated $75 million that the tax raises would go to building almost 1,800 affordable housing units in the city, with the rest funding services for the homeless, the City Council said.

Amazon, Seattle’s largest employer with more than 45,000 local employees, would owe $20 million to $30 million annually from the head tax and perhaps significantly more when the payroll tax kicks in.

For months, Amazon has been quietly lobbying behind the scenes against the tax proposal. Its unexpected announcement could be nothing more than a negotiating tactic to help extract concessions from the council.

Mike O’Brien, a member of the Seattle City Council, said Amazon representatives told him on Wednesday morning that they were pausing their expansion projects in the city, without leaving room for discussion.

“They’re not really asking for anything,” he said. “They’re just telling us what they’re going to do.”

Mr. O’Brien said Amazon should not be solely blamed for the homeless problem in Seattle, but that the company bears some responsibility. “From my point of view, we have a crisis in our town around housing affordability and homelessness,” he said. “They’re closely related and it’s related to the booming tech industry in Seattle.”

He added, “I need to run a city that has room for prosperous businesses, but doesn’t do it at the expense of people getting pushed into poverty.”

Greg Johnson, the president of Wright Runstad & Co., a development firm that is constructing the building that Amazon said it may lease out, said an Amazon executive told him of the plans on Tuesday night. Amazon has a lease for about 720,000 square feet in the 58-story tower.

“What’s troubling is the 4,500 people Amazon was going to put in the building, they’re now considering elsewhere, and I don’t think it’s elsewhere in Seattle,” Mr. Johnson said.

Seattle had a tax on hours worked by employees in the city starting in 2008, though it was phased out after several years. States typically grant the authority to tax at the local level, and 13 states allow some form of local income tax, according to Bill Fox, a professor at the University of Tennessee who specializes in state and local taxation issues.

Other cities with booming tech economies, like San Francisco, are also seeing housing prices soar because of intense local resistance to allowing more development. In Seattle, people unable to keep up with the costs live in their cars or in tents by the sides of freeways. Those who are better off park recreational vehicles in industrial neighborhoods.

In 2017, the Seattle area had the third largest homeless population in the country after New York and Los Angeles, according to an annual report to Congress by the Department of Housing and Urban Development.

After years of criticism for being disengaged from the civic life of its hometown, Amazon has in recent years attempted to show a more compassionate side in Seattle. It has agreed to allow a homeless shelter for families, Mary’s Place, to occupy space rent-free in another building that it is putting up. That is one of several buildings that Amazon still intends to complete.

Still, even within Amazon itself, there are haves and have-nots. While it is common for employees at its headquarters in Seattle earn $100,000 to $200,000 a year, workers at its fulfillment centers are paid only a tiny fraction of that. The company recently disclosed that median pay at Amazon last year was $28,446.

Amazon’s search for a second headquarters has also fanned criticism of the company, in large part because of the hefty tax incentives many of the 20 finalist locations have offered in an attempt to lure the company.

Mr. O’Brien, the Seattle city council member, described Amazon’s search as shopping around to see which city will give it the best deal.” We need companies that want to locate in a city and are willing to work together,” he said.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/02/t...pment-tax.html
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  #839  
Old Posted May 3, 2018, 9:51 PM
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That is the most idiotic tax idea I have ever heard. Basically directly punishing companies for creating jobs.
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  #840  
Old Posted May 3, 2018, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by FFX-ME View Post
That is the most idiotic tax idea I have ever heard. Basically directly punishing companies for creating jobs.
It's crazy.

Here in Vancouver most people I know who don't work in the tech industry are complaining about Amazon's expansion plans here because they believe jobs will hurt housing affordability.

These are some of the few good paying jobs left for younger people, and in Vancouver the workers at these jobs still won't be able to afford nice housing for the most part. Killing everything but jobs at Starbucks isn't going to make housing affordable for people who don't already own. It will just make our current two-tier quasi-feudal economy even worse.

Note that workers will pay much higher taxes (and work much harder) than the typical multimillionaire Vancouver homeowner.

Most of Vancouver is still zoned for detached single family dwellings, and the next major improvement to the city's transportation network is expected to happen in 2025 or so.
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